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Re: Help with trip.

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  • tomkocsis
    The only place I found remotely easy to buy older authentic pieces was in Ethiopia, although more than 10 yrs ago. Tourism rally picked up there and the
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 15, 2010
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      The only place I found remotely easy to buy older authentic pieces was in Ethiopia, although more than 10 yrs ago. Tourism rally picked up there and the transformation is amazing.

      I time to time find really nice objects here in DRC. Pieces surface from the villages and I record all the details on origin. I have a local friend who is very knowledgeable of all Congolese tribal art. His father was the royal artist for the previous king of the Bakuba.

      How long is your trip? I suspect you will need a lot of time if you want to visit smaller places and stay for a bit to gain trust.

      As for what's expensive it's relative. Quality pieces are not cheap here either. My problem is finding buyers in Europe or the US, because locally collected objects don't have well documented provenance. Any suggestion on finding buyers and on how to present rare pieces to collectors/buyers/museums would be great if you have experience with it.

      Tom



      --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, robbo hudson <medicalcurios@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks Tom....Ive been up and down since 1997...lol...old legs now....I look for stuff thats pleasing to the eye now with some age...your right...most of the stuff doesnt come out....i was luckily to find an old man in Durban that spent his life collecting stuff to open a museum...his house is full with so much stuff...but ..not being an expert all i could do was look and ask prices of things that look remotely like they could be sellable ...not one piece had he kept any written provenance on...just recited the village and truibe ...country...no ceremony ...nothing...amazing to see...but...when i picked out what i thought was nice...it either wasnt for sale or it was very expensive...any tips on where though or what to look for for yourself so i can pitch something to the director would be good...thanks again....robbo
      >
      >
      >
      > To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
      > From: tomkocsis@...
      > Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 10:36:17 +0000
      > Subject: [African_Arts] Re: Help with trip.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Robert,
      >
      > You trip sounds amazing. I did similar, though only half the distance from Ethiopia to Zim many years ago.
      >
      > As for finding quality pieces you might find it difficult. I'm a collector myself and I've been living in DR Congo for the past over 2 yrs. The argument that there are no more authentic and old objects are in Africa is not necessarily correct, but it is true that there are a lot of copies and fake pieces. Finding really quality pieces take a relationship with people who have connection to the locals in the villages. The good pieces remain hidden even during ceremonies and they only come out after dark to protect them from being copied. They rarely come out if there is a visitor (not necessarily a foreigner, but even someone from other villages) they are not comfortable with. The village keeps them as treasures, but they occasionally sell them through their own contacts whom they trust to finance special their projects.
      >
      > All this said, it is not impossible to find really quality objects, but as a "tourist" passing by, you will only find mediocre or commercial art. I collected many pieces, some better some just OK, but just now after 2 years finding really special ones.
      >
      > I hope it helps.
      >
      > Tom
      >
      > --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "robbo19965" <medicalcurios@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello,
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Allow me to introduce myself. Robert Hudson. I'm a collector of the unusual, rare and bizarre. I've been collecting for over 30 years and was the owner of THE MUSEUM OF CURIOS COLLECTION.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > My reason for contacting yourself is because next April I set off overland from South Africa through Mozambique, Malawi, Zambia, Tanzania, Burundi, Rwanda, Uganda, Kenya, Ethiopia,Sudan, Egypt.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > This is a fly on the wall documentary we are filming and I Have been asked to contact a few collectors who may or may not want something from these regions that I might be able to source. It could be that you need something picking up from that region and I get a fee for bringing it back to you. Eventually we sail from Egypt through the Med onto the UK.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Can you please suggest anything I should look for on the way that you maybe interested to buy after I get the item back to the UK. It is a small part of the documentary where I try to finance my way by buying artefacts etc....knowing my luck, I should think this may be disasterous but thats all good tv!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I hope you can suggest a few things from certain regions.Please guys nothing so impossible or anything that doesn't actually exist because I'm gullible enough to look for it!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Thankyou for your time
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Robert Hudson
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > www.the-museum-of-curios.co.uk
      > >
      >
    • robbo hudson
      Tom....for me and for you..it seems we see the beauty in things more than the provenance...I realised how important thisprovenance thing is by the prices
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 16, 2010
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        Tom....for me and for you..it seems we see the beauty in things more than the provenance...I realised how important thisprovenance thing is by the prices achieved at auction of old collections!!...you could have a better looking object but without solid proof of the provenance it's worth less than a tenth of the crappy old collection one...infuriating as it is...this is the market so recording your own provenance may well secure a good price in 40 years...lol.
        Alot of this has been brought about by collectors getting caught up in the tourist market of very well done 1 day old antiques...
         
        i just buy alot of my stuff like art...if it looks right and pleasing to my eye with obvious good patina.....i buy it...i know it wont fetch the big money but other collectors will see what i saw and hopefully buy....if the top collectors want to get hung up over the provenance thing so that the item is "pure" then thats fine...i guess i will be known as a decorator in the trade... as they say..lol
         
        the trip is 16 weeks...eek then 2 or 3 by boat.
        robbo
         

        To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
        From: tomkocsis@...
        Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 21:11:02 +0000
        Subject: [African_Arts] Re: Help with trip.

         
        The only place I found remotely easy to buy older authentic pieces was in Ethiopia, although more than 10 yrs ago. Tourism rally picked up there and the transformation is amazing.

        I time to time find really nice objects here in DRC. Pieces surface from the villages and I record all the details on origin. I have a local friend who is very knowledgeable of all Congolese tribal art. His father was the royal artist for the previous king of the Bakuba.

        How long is your trip? I suspect you will need a lot of time if you want to visit smaller places and stay for a bit to gain trust.

        As for what's expensive it's relative. Quality pieces are not cheap here either. My problem is finding buyers in Europe or the US, because locally collected objects don't have well documented provenance. Any suggestion on finding buyers and on how to present rare pieces to collectors/buyers/museums would be great if you have experience with it.

        Tom

        --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, robbo hudson <medicalcurios@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks Tom....Ive been up and down since 1997...lol...old legs now....I look for stuff thats pleasing to the eye now with some age...your right...most of the stuff doesnt come out....i was luckily to find an old man in Durban that spent his life collecting stuff to open a museum...his house is full with so much stuff...but ..not being an expert all i could do was look and ask prices of things that look remotely like they could be sellable ...not one piece had he kept any written provenance on...just recited the village and truibe ...country...no ceremony ...nothing...amazing to see...but...when i picked out what i thought was nice...it either wasnt for sale or it was very expensive...any tips on where though or what to look for for yourself so i can pitch something to the director would be good...thanks again....robbo
        >
        >
        >
        > To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
        > From: tomkocsis@...
        > Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 10:36:17 +0000
        > Subject: [African_Arts] Re: Help with trip.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Robert,
        >
        > You trip sounds amazing. I did similar, though only half the distance from Ethiopia to Zim many years ago.
        >
        > As for finding quality pieces you might find it difficult. I'm a collector myself and I've been living in DR Congo for the past over 2 yrs. The argument that there are no more authentic and old objects are in Africa is not necessarily correct, but it is true that there are a lot of copies and fake pieces. Finding really quality pieces take a relationship with people who have connection to the locals in the villages. The good pieces remain hidden even during ceremonies and they only come out after dark to protect them from being copied. They rarely come out if there is a visitor (not necessarily a foreigner, but even someone from other villages) they are not comfortable with. The village keeps them as treasures, but they occasionally sell them through their own contacts whom they trust to finance special their projects.
        >
        > All this said, it is not impossible to find really quality objects, but as a "tourist" passing by, you will only find mediocre or commercial art. I collected many pieces, some better some just OK, but just now after 2 years finding really special ones.
        >
        > I hope it helps.
        >
        > Tom
        >
        > --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "robbo19965" <medicalcurios@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello,
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Allow me to introduce myself. Robert Hudson. I'm a collector of the unusual, rare and bizarre. I've been collecting for over 30 years and was the owner of THE MUSEUM OF CURIOS COLLECTION.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > My reason for contacting yourself is because next April I set off overland from South Africa through Mozambique, Malawi, Zambia, Tanzania, Burundi, Rwanda, Uganda, Kenya, Ethiopia,Sudan, Egypt.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > This is a fly on the wall documentary we are filming and I Have been asked to contact a few collectors who may or may not want something from these regions that I might be able to source. It could be that you need something picking up from that region and I get a fee for bringing it back to you. Eventually we sail from Egypt through the Med onto the UK.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Can you please suggest anything I should look for on the way that you maybe interested to buy after I get the item back to the UK. It is a small part of the documentary where I try to finance my way by buying artefacts etc....knowing my luck, I should think this may be disasterous but thats all good tv!
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I hope you can suggest a few things from certain regions.Please guys nothing so impossible or anything that doesn't actually exist because I'm gullible enough to look for it!
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Thankyou for your time
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Robert Hudson
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > www.the-museum-of-curios.co.uk
        > >
        >


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