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Re: Bed and unknown figure

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  • spric1h
    Hi Gabriele Not getting responses doesn t mean that you ve offended people; it probably means that those who who read your post had nothing much to say about
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 9, 2009
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      Hi Gabriele

      Not getting responses doesn't mean that you've offended people; it probably means that those who who read your post had nothing much to say about the pieces.

      How to get a reasonably expert evaluation depends on where you are. If there's a local museum with a respectable African art section, bring the pieces in for examination by the the curator. He (or she) can probably give you an opinion about the ages and "authenticity", although curators usually won't appraise the market value. A local dealer can be helpful if he's honest and knowledgable. If there's nothing local, sending photos to the Tribal Arts expert at one or two auction houses is a good way to learn something about your pieces.

      Regards

      Steve Price



      --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "macpanthere" <macgab610@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Forum Member's
      >
      > Unfortunately I must have step on somebody's toes – unknowingly.
      > I know, that this forum is not the antique road show.
      >
      > We were hoping to get a evaluation from one of the specialist in this forum and some more Information about the little Figure: http://www.dropshots.com/keinen#date/2009-09-04/15:54:04
      >
      > [also... Bed: http://www.dropshots.com/keinen#date/2009-09-03/07:56:21 ]
      >
      > We would really appreciate any information. Does anybody know, where to get a evaluation or a certificate of authenticity, etc.
      >
      > Thank you very much!
      >
      > Best regards
      >
      > Gabriele
      >
    • Lee Rubinstein
      Gabriele: Steve has offered some good insight into the situation and directions for exploring your objects further. I do not recognize the origins or functions
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 9, 2009
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        Gabriele:

        Steve has offered some good insight into the situation and directions for exploring your objects further.

        I do not recognize the origins or functions of your small figure, although the glass bottles which appear on the the shoulders suggest the possible use of these vessels for the inclusion of symbolic or ritual elements for a usage which I cannot infer.

        The bed appears to be a relatively contemporary rendering of traditional, carved wooden beds from the Cameroon Grasslands although the earliest possible date of creation can hypothetically be estimated by the dates of the coins that are used as decoration -- in lieu of the cowrie shells (or glass beads) that are also used to adorn Grasslands objects of prestige.  Observable and recognizable elements include portrayals of Bamum personages as well as of the double-headed snake (see Message 2940), the spider, the elephant in wood and the leopard in metal -- all of which can be traced as meaningful symbols in Grasslands contexts (Bamum, Bamileke, etc.), referring to ideas and images pertaining to royal power.  As one possible starting point, see Message 2560 and the book by Donna Page and exhibition, "A Cameroon World" to which the latter-referenced message refers.  Additional general reference works regarding Cameroon art include those written by Tamara Northern (e.g., Art of Cameroon) and Christraud M. Geary. Paul Gebauer's The Art of Cameroon is another excellent reference work on artistic and cultural traditions of Cameroon, especially from -- but not limited to -- the Grasslands region.  An important and well-illustrated work in French that will be very helpful can also be accessed on-line:  Louis Perrois and Jean-Paul Notué's Rois et sculpteurs de l'Ouest Cameroun: la panthère et la mygale (Karthala).  There are additional recent works on the treasuries of specific Grasslands chefferies (Bandjoun, Baham, Babungo and Mankon) as well as the accompanying web-site  http://museumcam.org/ where you can view and gain some background on artistic production and expression in these communities.

        Lee


        On Sep 9, 2009, at 9:37 AM, spric1h wrote:

        Hi Gabriele

        Not getting responses doesn't mean that you've offended people; it probably means that those who who read your post had nothing much to say about the pieces. 

        How to get a reasonably expert evaluation depends on where you are. If there's a local museum with a respectable African art section, bring the pieces in for examination by the the curator. He (or she) can probably give you an opinion about the ages and "authenticity" , although curators usually won't appraise the market value. A local dealer can be helpful if he's honest and knowledgable. If there's nothing local, sending photos to the Tribal Arts expert at one or two auction houses is a good way to learn something about your pieces.

        Regards

        Steve Price

        --- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com, "macpanthere" <macgab610@. ..> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Forum Member's
        > 
        > Unfortunately I must have step on somebody's toes – unknowingly.
        > I know, that this forum is not the antique road show.
        > 
        > We were hoping to get a evaluation from one of the specialist in this forum and some more Information about the little Figure: http://www.dropshot s.com/keinen# date/2009- 09-04/15: 54:04
        > 
        > [also... Bed: http://www.dropshot s.com/keinen# date/2009- 09-03/07: 56:21 ]
        > 
        > We would really appreciate any information. Does anybody know, where to get a evaluation or a certificate of authenticity, etc.
        > 
        > Thank you very much!
        > 
        > Best regards
        > 
        > Gabriele
        >


      • Paul DeLucco
        Dear Gabriele,   The small figure appears authentic but it is a small power object of a kind crafted by many cultures in central Africa.  It lacks strong
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 9, 2009
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        Dear Gabriele,
         
        The small figure appears authentic but it is a small power object of a kind crafted by many cultures in central Africa.  It lacks strong stylistic elements that we might associate with the Yaka, say, or the Pende.  It could come from nearly anywhere in sub-Saharan Africa.
         
        But, I would guess that it might originate in the Popokabaka District of Democratic Republic of the Congo, south and east of Kinshasa.  This is an area of rich cultural diversity.  The different groups are intermixed, e.g. Yaka, Suku, Holo, Mbala, Pende, etc., and often produce art showing multiple influences.
         
        The small figure has a Yaka-looking head, although the small protuberant eyes are not indicative of the Yaka.  It has a round base which does not seem typical of the art produced by any group in the area.  But, the Yaka Mbwooloo figures are about the same size and often are often rounded at the bottom without legs.  The figure is carrying three small glass ampoules.  I have not seen this before but it is common for Holo power objects to carry vertical medicine bundles that resemble somewhat in size the glass ampoules which were also probably used to carry medicine bundes.  The torso of the figure is covered with a cloth which is typical of Holo and Yaka figures, although the cowrie shells are an odd touch associated more with tourist pieces.
         
        In brief, the piece, which is not brilliantly carved, incorporates stylistic elements which might originate from several different cultures from the Popokabaka District if DRC.  It is not finely carved but is likely authentic and might best be qualified as "ethnographic."  Its value, of course, would depend on the buyer.    
         
        Regards,
         
        Paul
          


        --- On Tue, 9/8/09, macpanthere <macgab610@...> wrote:

        From: macpanthere <macgab610@...>
        Subject: [African_Arts] Bed and unknown figure
        To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 9:52 PM

         
        Dear Forum Member's

        Unfortunately I must have step on somebody's toes – unknowingly.
        I know, that this forum is not the antique road show.

        We were hoping to get a evaluation from one of the specialist in this forum and some more Information about the little Figure: http://www.dropshot s.com/keinen# date/2009- 09-04/15: 54:04

        [also... Bed: http://www.dropshot s.com/keinen# date/2009- 09-03/07: 56:21 ]

        We would really appreciate any information. Does anybody know, where to get a evaluation or a certificate of authenticity, etc.

        Thank you very much!

        Best regards

        Gabriele


      • GARYGLS2000@aol.com
        The little figure may be a fetsh object from the Kissi people of Sierra Leone, Liberia or Guinea. ... From: macpanthere To:
        Message 4 of 5 , Sep 9, 2009
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          The little figure may be a fetsh object from the Kissi people of Sierra Leone, Liberia or Guinea.



          -----Original Message-----
          From: macpanthere <macgab610@...>
          To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, Sep 8, 2009 9:52 pm
          Subject: [African_Arts] Bed and unknown figure

           
          Dear Forum Member's

          Unfortunately I must have step on somebody's toes – unknowingly.
          I know, that this forum is not the antique road show.

          We were hoping to get a evaluation from one of the specialist in this forum and some more Information about the little Figure: http://www.dropshot s.com/keinen# date/2009- 09-04/15: 54:04

          [also... Bed: http://www.dropshot s.com/keinen# date/2009- 09-03/07: 56:21 ]

          We would really appreciate any information. Does anybody know, where to get a evaluation or a certificate of authenticity, etc.

          Thank you very much!

          Best regards

          Gabriel e

        • spric1h
          Hi Paul Like many collectors, I generally assume that a stylistic mix and the inclusion of atypical objects are pretty strong signs that a piece was made for
          Message 5 of 5 , Sep 9, 2009
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            Hi Paul

            Like many collectors, I generally assume that a stylistic mix and the inclusion of atypical objects are pretty strong signs that a piece was made for export. What is it about the small figure that leads you to believe that it's "authentic"?

            Regards

            Steve Price


            --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, Paul DeLucco <pauldelucco@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear Gabriele,
            >  
            > The small figure appears authentic but it is a small power object of a kind crafted by many cultures in central Africa.  It lacks strong stylistic elements that we might associate with the Yaka, say, or the Pende.  It could come from nearly anywhere in sub-Saharan Africa.
            >  
            > But, I would guess that it might originate in the Popokabaka District of Democratic Republic of the Congo, south and east of Kinshasa.  This is an area of rich cultural diversity.  The different groups are intermixed, e.g. Yaka, Suku, Holo, Mbala, Pende, etc., and often produce art showing multiple influences.
            >  
            > The small figure has a Yaka-looking head, although the small protuberant eyes are not indicative of the Yaka.  It has a round base which does not seem typical of the art produced by any group in the area.  But, the Yaka Mbwooloo figures are about the same size and often are often rounded at the bottom without legs.  The figure is carrying three small glass ampoules.  I have not seen this before but it is common for Holo power objects to carry vertical medicine bundles that resemble somewhat in size the glass ampoules which were also probably used to carry medicine bundes.  The torso of the figure is covered with a cloth which is typical of Holo and Yaka figures, although the cowrie shells are an odd touch associated more with tourist pieces.
            >  
            > In brief, the piece, which is not brilliantly carved, incorporates stylistic elements which might originate from several different cultures from the Popokabaka District if DRC.  It is not finely carved but is likely authentic and might best be qualified as "ethnographic."  Its value, of course, would depend on the buyer.    
            >  
            > Regards,
            >  
            > Paul
            >   
            >
            >
            > --- On Tue, 9/8/09, macpanthere <macgab610@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: macpanthere <macgab610@...>
            > Subject: [African_Arts] Bed and unknown figure
            > To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 9:52 PM
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            > Dear Forum Member's
            >
            > Unfortunately I must have step on somebody's toes â€" unknowingly.
            > I know, that this forum is not the antique road show.
            >
            > We were hoping to get a evaluation from one of the specialist in this forum and some more Information about the little Figure: http://www.dropshot s.com/keinen# date/2009- 09-04/15: 54:04
            >
            > [also... Bed: http://www.dropshot s.com/keinen# date/2009- 09-03/07: 56:21 ]
            >
            > We would really appreciate any information. Does anybody know, where to get a evaluation or a certificate of authenticity, etc.
            >
            > Thank you very much!
            >
            > Best regards
            >
            > Gabriele
            >
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