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stool chokwe

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  • mateusen1
    i just posted some images of a stool. Can somebody help me to identify ? I think it is Chokwe ? Or pende ? The position of one hand on the shoulder is
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 1, 2009
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      i just posted some images of a stool. Can somebody help me to identify ? I think it is Chokwe ? Or pende ?
      The position of one hand on the shoulder is exceptional ?
      The piece comes from the collection of a doctor living in Kinshasa (1930- 1980)

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1989667169/pic/list?

      Thanks
    • beepeawee1@aol.com
      I have been offered as a gift, an earlier?work by this Uhrhobo legend. I have a friend whose family worked and lived in Nigeria in the 60s and early 70s.?My
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 3, 2009
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        I have been offered as a gift, an earlier work by this Uhrhobo legend.

        I have a friend whose family worked and lived in Nigeria in the 60s and early 70s. My friend's mother dealt art, primarily from around Oshogbo. I have yet to make my pick, but I was wondering if there is any one on list more familiar with his work (multimedia, paint,aluminum etched reliefs and printmaking) which I find fascinating and who would be willing to offer an opinion, once I have made a choice from their collection, which is stunning in itself! Net searches have revealed startlingly wide valuations and I do not trust the expertise of the 'specialists' at the "Big Three" auction houses here
         since in the past they have made eggregious errors in identifying other less 'exotic ' work
         I've taken them.
        The spirits work in wonderfully mysterious ways.

        Odabo

        Beth
      • Lee Rubinstein
        Gi: I m still looking for comparative examples of both stools and figures that might help to localize the origins of your stool. So far I haven t come across
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 5, 2009
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          Gi:

          I'm still looking for comparative examples of both stools and figures that might help to localize the origins of your stool.  So far I haven't come across the arm position of your figure (which is quite interesting!) or even examples of single-figure caryatid stools, but elements of the facial portrayal on the supporting figure -- angular eye brows, cheek bones and nose, particularly -- strike me as more Pende than Chokwe in style.

          Lee

          On Aug 1, 2009, at 6:59 PM, mateusen1 wrote:

          i just posted some images of a stool. Can somebody help me to identify ? I think it is Chokwe ? Or pende ? 
          The position of one hand on the shoulder is exceptional ?
          The piece comes from the collection of a doctor living in Kinshasa (1930- 1980)

          http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/African_ Arts/photos/ album/1989667169 /pic/list?

          Thanks


        • Georges Jungle
          Hi Lee and all,   You will see from the link a very similar stool from the catalogue of a sale scheduled in Paris in September 18. The pdf version of the
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 31, 2009
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            Hi Lee and all,
             
            You will see from the link a very similar stool from the catalogue of a sale scheduled in Paris in September 18. The pdf version of the catalogue contains a much better photo of the object (lot 80, page 35).
             
             
             
            Regards,
            Georges

            --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Lee Rubinstein <LeeRubinstein@...> wrote:

            From: Lee Rubinstein <LeeRubinstein@...>
            Subject: Re: [African_Arts] stool chokwe
            To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 6:09 AM



            Gi:

            I'm still looking for comparative examples of both stools and figures that might help to localize the origins of your stool.  So far I haven't come across the arm position of your figure (which is quite interesting!) or even examples of single-figure caryatid stools, but elements of the facial portrayal on the supporting figure -- angular eye brows, cheek bones and nose, particularly -- strike me as more Pende than Chokwe in style.

            Lee

            On Aug 1, 2009, at 6:59 PM, mateusen1 wrote:

            i just posted some images of a stool. Can somebody help me to identify ? I think it is Chokwe ? Or pende ? 
            The position of one hand on the shoulder is exceptional ?
            The piece comes from the collection of a doctor living in Kinshasa (1930- 1980)

            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/African_ Arts/photos/ album/1989667169 /pic/list?

            Thanks





          • Gi Mateusen
            Very simular indeed. Thanks for the interesting information. I have some books of the Dapper Museum but not that one that was given as reference. -- Gi
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 31, 2009
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              Re: [African_Arts] stool chokwe Very simular indeed. Thanks for the interesting information. I have some books of the Dapper Museum but not that one that was given as reference.

              --
              Gi Mateusen
              mobile: +.32.(0)477.300679
              E-mail: mateusen@...




              Van: Georges Jungle <bluesinparis@...>
              Beantwoorden - Aan: <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>
              Datum: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:53:03 -0700 (PDT)
              Aan: <African_Arts@yahoogroups.com>
              Onderwerp: Re: [African_Arts] stool chokwe

               
               
               

              Hi Lee and all,
               
              You will see from the link a very similar stool from the catalogue of a sale scheduled in Paris in September 18. The pdf version of the catalogue contains a much better photo of the object (lot 80, page 35).
               
              http://www.massol-sa.com/flash/index.jsp?id=5287&idCp=7&lng=fr <http://www.massol-sa.com/flash/index.jsp?id=5287&amp;idCp=7&amp;lng=fr>
               
               <http://www.massol-sa.com/flash/index.jsp?id=5287&amp;idCp=7&amp;lng=fr>  
              Regards,
              Georges

              --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Lee Rubinstein <LeeRubinstein@...> wrote:

              From: Lee Rubinstein <LeeRubinstein@...>
              Subject: Re: [African_Arts] stool chokwe
              To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 6:09 AM



              Gi:
              I'm still looking for comparative examples of both stools and figures that might help to localize the origins of your stool.  So far I haven't come across the arm position of your figure (which is quite interesting!) or even examples of single-figure caryatid stools, but elements of the facial portrayal on the supporting figure -- angular eye brows, cheek bones and nose, particularly -- strike me as more Pende than Chokwe in style.

              Lee

              On Aug 1, 2009, at 6:59 PM, mateusen1 wrote:

              i just posted some images of a stool. Can somebody help me to identify ? I think it is Chokwe ? Or pende ?
              The position of one hand on the shoulder is exceptional ?
              The piece comes from the collection of a doctor living in Kinshasa (1930- 1980)

              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/African_ Arts/photos/ album/1989667169 /pic/list? <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/album/1989667169/pic/list?>

              Thanks





               
                
                  


            • Lee Rubinstein
              Gi (and Georges) et al: You will find in the Sotheby s [Paris] catalogue from December 5, 2006 a figure (Lot 129, below) with a different but equally notable
              Message 6 of 6 , Sep 2, 2009
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                P1020042


                Gi (and Georges) et al:

                You will find in the Sotheby's [Paris] catalogue from December 5, 2006 a figure (Lot 129, below) with a different but equally notable and expressive arm position and quotation of brief remarks based on an accompanying note by Marie-Louise Bastin suggesting that there may exist a body of writing by Mme Bastin that will reveal some explication of the posture about which you, Gi, inquired. 


                "...toujours selon Marie-Louise Bastin (idem), cette statue féminine représente une statue d'ancêtre (kaponya wa pwo), dont le geste - d'étonnement et de pudeur - est fréquemment représenté sur les barreaux de chaise historiés des Tshokwé, évoquant la frayeur ou l'étonnement d'une femme surprenant une scène d'adultère ou de maladie."

                Following up on the reference to "les barreaux de chaise historiés des Tshokwé" in the text above which accompanies Lot 129, I also note the placement of the arm on the shoulder -- as on the figure of your stool -- in two of three figures carved at the base of an early 20th century "Chief's throne with figurative scenes" which appears as Figure 18 in Manuel Jordån, ed.,  Chokwe!: Art and Initiation Among Chokwe and Related Peoples (Munich, London, New York:  Prestel.  1998).  The caption reads "The front rungs may represent a coronation scene and three seated male initiates at the bottom."  The repetition of this arm posture in Chokwe figural representation -- both in male and female figures -- suggests that a ritual meaning may be encoded in and/or represented by this specific positioning and that this meaning may be found through continued research and exploration of figures, stools, thrones and texts.



                Lot 134 (above) a Chokwe tobacco mortar which was offered in the same auction, also displays notably pronounced arm positions but, alas, no detailed explanation of these features.  Worth noting in light of the appearance of other stylistic influences particularly in the face of the caryatid figure supporting your stool -- Pende, for example, as noted earlier, I believe -- is that Figure 134, though Chokwe, is attributed to a Kasai-region atelier -- a reminder of the complex inter-relationships of cultural and stylistic influences which make attribution a challenging and fascinating task.

                Lee


                On Aug 31, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Georges Jungle wrote:


                Hi Lee and all,
                 
                You will see from the link a very similar stool from the catalogue of a sale scheduled in Paris in September 18. The pdf version of the catalogue contains a much better photo of the object (lot 80, page 35).
                 
                 
                 
                Regards,
                Georges

                --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Lee Rubinstein <LeeRubinstein@ mac.com> wrote:

                From: Lee Rubinstein <LeeRubinstein@ mac.com>
                Subject: Re: [African_Arts] stool chokwe
                To: African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com
                Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 6:09 AM



                Gi:

                I'm still looking for comparative examples of both stools and figures that might help to localize the origins of your stool.  So far I haven't come across the arm position of your figure (which is quite interesting! ) or even examples of single-figure caryatid stools, but elements of the facial portrayal on the supporting figure -- angular eye brows, cheek bones and nose, particularly -- strike me as more Pende than Chokwe in style.

                Lee

                On Aug 1, 2009, at 6:59 PM, mateusen1 wrote:

                i just posted some images of a stool. Can somebody help me to identify ? I think it is Chokwe ? Or pende ? 
                The position of one hand on the shoulder is exceptional ?
                The piece comes from the collection of a doctor living in Kinshasa (1930- 1980)

                http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/African_ Arts/photos/ album/1989667169 /pic/list?

                Thanks







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