Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: New Member

Expand Messages
  • at24doors
    I received an email from a member who believes all of these pieces are copies. Would you take a look and let me know if you are of the same opinion, please?
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 18 2:46 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      I received an email from a member who believes all of these pieces are copies. Would you take a look and let me know if you are of the same opinion, please? Thanks.
    • Ed Jones
      Welcome to the group!   Yes, I agree with the other member (and it is quite true).  All are copies or market art .  It really should not matter if you
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 18 9:06 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        Welcome to the group!
         
        Yes, I agree with the other member (and it is quite true).  All are copies or "market art".  It really should not matter if you like them, and the fact that they are copies should not cause disappointment- especially considering that you have been collecting/enjoying African art for 20 years. Typically, many collections (and even museums) are bound to have "market art" in some form or fashion, until it is out-grown and ones' budget and "eye" becomes more discriminating... 
         
        Maybe, it will never seem to matter for some.   Enjoy learning and discovery.
         
        Ed 
         

         


        From: at24doors <picframe@...>
        To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 2:46:12 PM
        Subject: [African_Arts] Re: New Member

        I received an email from a member who believes all of these pieces are copies. Would you take a look and let me know if you are of the same opinion, please? Thanks.


      • federico ferrari
        Yes, unfortunately in your web album there is no one piece old and authentic, exept - perhaps - the Ethiopian baskets and milk pail. I m sorry. Bundugola
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 19 8:39 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Yes, unfortunately in your web album there is no one piece old and authentic, exept - perhaps - the Ethiopian baskets and milk pail.
          I' m sorry.
          Bundugola


          Da: at24doors <picframe@...>
          A: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
          Inviato: Mercoledì 18 marzo 2009, 22:46:12
          Oggetto: [African_Arts] Re: New Member

          I received an email from a member who believes all of these pieces are copies. Would you take a look and let me know if you are of the same opinion, please? Thanks.


        • Lee Rubinstein
          I agree that the basketry items -- the Somali/Ethiopian jugs and the Ethiopian baskets are the most promising pieces with respect to likelihood of authentic
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 4, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            I agree that the basketry items -- the Somali/Ethiopian jugs and the Ethiopian baskets are the most promising pieces with respect to likelihood of authentic production and usage.  There appear to be some very nice ceramic pieces in the group as well which can be glimpsed in the background of the "Lobi honey pot."  Contemplating these woven and ceramic pieces along with the  three-legged Tanzanian stool (and other stools pictured), I am reminded of how the appreciation of "African Furniture and Household Objects" is still rather limited in spite of the very personal nature of these objects as well as previous efforts to bring such works to the fore.  Although Roy Sieber focused upon these classes of objects in the 1980-81 touring exhibition ("African Furniture and Household Objects") and himself was an inspiration to so many scholars whose work now constitutes a massive contribution to the understanding and appreciation of African material culture, the value placed upon these works remains modest.  The Ginzberg collection -- published in 2000 and auctioned as "African Forms"  in Paris in 2007 -- remains one of the few collections which has focused primarily on such practical, everyday objects rather than upon masks and figures.  The upside of this condition is that such objects remain relatively accessible...

            The Yoruba vest, or tunic, in the background of the image of the Ethiopian baskets also looks quite interesting, and although it is quite difficult to see in great detail, it does appear possible that some Matakam skirts might have been integrated into that vest -- which might compromise the likelihood of its ritual rather than commercial origin but which does raise some intriguing questions.  It would be interesting indeed to know more about the context in which this integration of varied cultural elements may have occurred.   Because I always like and seem to find unifying threads, I am moved to notice and note the resonant juxtaposition of a remarkable Yoruba beaded textile [below or here] in African Forms next to a quartet of Matakam (or Kirdi) "skirts, loincloths, or aprons" on pages 244-245 of African Forms (Milano:  Skira, 2000).   An element in the description of this textile that is relevant to the idea of recombination of elements -- although in this case intra-cultural rather than extra-cultural -- is this:  "The five individual vertical panels were baldrics worn in the Egungun cult festival that have now been combined in this object."  (p. 244)

            Also pictured among your images are various masks -- Kuba (including the big-cheeked mask which seems to have some Kuba geometric elements), Lele, Sala M'pasu, Nafana, etc. -- which are difficult to assess with regard to authenticity from mere images which do not allow closer study.  Because of these factors and the absence of collection history, the inclination is to assume them replicas amid the commercial environment wherein they are oft-replicated and widely available.  With specific regard to the "Bamoun Queen's storage container," I can only say that I myself cannot identify any authenticated comparative examples by which to confirm or deny this designation, although I seem to remember reference to a similar piece offered with a similar description which was recently transacted in Dakar.  Perhaps someone with more access to, insight into and experience with Grasslands material culture can offer some relevant observations.  (Salim?  Wendy?  Any thoughts, insights, recollections?)  

            The image depicting the over-sized Baule-inspired mask, the "Bamileke chief throne," and a glimpse of the Makonde-inspired body mask seems to be an assemblage of works that all appear to be contemporary, decorative work -- all quite interesting and well-executed but not seemingly offering indication of ritual or cultural usage or relevance beyond the important continuity of artistic production and economic activity.   The over-sized scale of the Ivoirian mask and the lizard on the body mask suggest commercial stylistic syntheses in these objects while the images which Andrew Turley was kind enough to upload provide good documentation of the copious contemporary production of such Grasslands-style thrones, stools and other furniture.  See, for instance, this image or this one.  (Belated thanks, Andrew, for providing the album of images from your recent Cameroon sojourn!)  Of course, it would be beneficial both to carvers trying to make a living and to buyers/collectors wishing a clear understanding of their acquisitions if the appreciation for high-quality contemporary work were sufficient to promulgate the clear identification of modern craft so that the reality of the works were not always so obscured and so frequently misrepresented as historical and/or ritual works.  This would allow the quality of the work to stand on its own and minimize the confusion and resentment created by market machinations to supply the perceived demand.  

            Lee



            On Mar 19, 2009, at 11:39 AM, federico ferrari wrote:


            Yes, unfortunately in your web album there is no one piece old and authentic, exept - perhaps - the Ethiopian baskets and milk pail.
            I' m sorry.
            Bundugola


            Da: at24doors <picframe@bellsouth. net>
            A: African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com
            Inviato: Mercoledì 18 marzo 2009, 22:46:12
            Oggetto: [African_Arts] Re: New Member

            I received an email from a member who believes all of these pieces are copies. Would you take a look and let me know if you are of the same opinion, please? Thanks.




          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.