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Re: Newbie seeks preliminary ID nail and blade fetish dollsfetish dolls

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  • Steve Price
    Hi Bobby The nails and the blades look quite uniform, usually a pretty good sign that the objects were made for sale. Another thing to look for is the
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 17, 2008
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      Hi Bobby

      The nails and the blades look quite uniform, usually a pretty good
      sign that the objects were made for sale. Another thing to look for
      is the corrosion at the points where the inserted objects penetrate
      the body. If they were put in at different times (as would be the
      case if the object is "authentic"), some should be highly corroded,
      some much less so.

      Since the "authentic" ones were sort of records of agreements rather
      than protective objects, these are more likely to have mojo if
      they're fake than if they're "authentic. :-}

      Regards

      Steve Price

      -- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "bobbybress" <baldobaboy@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Region, any obvious sign they are counterfit. Large one has glass
      eyes
      > andsd stomach charm is boxlike and fronted by glass. Small blade
      > fetish doll has multiple cloth encased charms in it's armor. TIA
      to
      > anyone who helps to short cut my education. Just began reading.
      > Bought them because I always wanted a nail fetish doll since first
      > seeing one at a museum at five. With my luck of late, it couldn't
      hurt
      > to have protection against some curse unbeknownst to me behind my
      > unpleasantries of late if any mojo is left in them. Otherwise, I
      still
      > like them as I always have.
      >
      > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/browse/9f6d?c=
      >
      > Best,
      >
      > Bobby
      >
    • bobbybress
      I m learning. If real, they re Yohmbe Nkisi. No obvious chisel marks. Large crack at foot of larger statue has no wood odor so they re likely pretty old.
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 17, 2008
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        I'm learning. If real, they're Yohmbe Nkisi. No obvious chisel
        marks. Large crack at foot of larger statue has no wood odor so
        they're likely pretty old. TIA to anyone who comments.

        --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "bobbybress" <baldobaboy@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Region, any obvious sign they are counterfit. Large one has glass
        eyes
        > andsd stomach charm is boxlike and fronted by glass. Small blade
        > fetish doll has multiple cloth encased charms in it's armor. TIA
        to
        > anyone who helps to short cut my education. Just began reading.
        > Bought them because I always wanted a nail fetish doll since first
        > seeing one at a museum at five. With my luck of late, it couldn't
        hurt
        > to have protection against some curse unbeknownst to me behind my
        > unpleasantries of late if any mojo is left in them. Otherwise, I
        still
        > like them as I always have.
        >
        > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/browse/9f6d?c=
        >
        > Best,
        >
        > Bobby
        >
      • bobby bress
        On the large one, some of the nails/bkllades...are highly corroded at the penetration point while 2/3rd appear not to be. The corrosion level of the various
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 18, 2008
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          On the large one, some of the nails/bkllades...are highly corroded at the penetration point while 2/3rd appear not to be.  The corrosion level of the various nauils is variagated,Could the large ione be a real fetish made commercial at a certain point in it's life for pragragmatic reason.  Also, given the large base crack in it has no wood smell meaning it is old -- could this be an older fetish commercialized with nails/b;lades for sale later. I can't see the small one's penetration points but you are right abouit the uniformity of the blades in it. On the large one, a good one was done to commercialize it if that is the case as the penetrators are well variagatedruction -- a key, flat head nails, sided nails, blades -- but I also know a smart producer could variegate those objects to create the impression of reality.  Thanks for guiding me to a specific thing to examine which I'll do in more depth in the nest day.  The arm on the larger one is wood pegged in.  Is that in any way indicative of when it was made or is that still the common means of joining up to the seventies when it was bought by the place where i aquirred it..  With all the nails, you'd think they would go to the trouble of pegging to join in that way but it would be a smart deception to make it appear older.  I think it may be an old statue later fetishized for commerce.  Is that common to you knowledge?Th Thanks for replying and improving my analytic skills
           
          best,.
           
          Bob

          Hi Bobby

          The nails and the blades look quite uniform, usually a pretty good
          sign that the objects were made for sale. Another thing to look for
          is the corrosion at the points where the inserted objects penetrate
          the body. If they were put in at different times (as would be the
          case if the object is "authentic") , some should be highly corroded,
          some much less so.

          Since the "authentic" ones were sort of records of agreements rather
          than protective objects, these are more likely to have mojo if
          they're fake than if they're "authentic. :-}

          Regards

          Steve Price

          -- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com, "bobbybress" <baldobaboy@ ...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Region, any obvious sign they are counterfit. Large one has glass
          eyes
          > andsd stomach charm is boxlike and fronted by glass. Small blade
          > fetish doll has multiple cloth encased charms in it's armor. TIA
          to
          > anyone who helps to short cut my education. Just began reading.
          > Bought them because I always wanted a nail fetish doll since first
          > seeing one at a museum at five. With my luck of late, it couldn't
          hurt
          > to have protection against some curse unbeknownst to me behind my
          > unpleasantries of late if any mojo is left in them. Otherwise, I
          still
          > like them as I always have.
          >
          > http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/African_ Arts/photos/ browse/9f6d? c=
          >
          > Best,
          >
          > Bobby
          >


        • bobby bress
          Ps. the fake mojo might be worth miore to me thanb the authentic item FWIW. Steve Price wrote: Hi Bobby The nails and the blades
          Message 4 of 8 , Aug 18, 2008
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            Ps.  the fake mojo might be worth miore to me thanb the authentic item FWIW.
            Steve Price <sprice@...> wrote:
            Hi Bobby

            The nails and the blades look quite uniform, usually a pretty good
            sign that the objects were made for sale. Another thing to look for
            is the corrosion at the points where the inserted objects penetrate
            the body. If they were put in at different times (as would be the
            case if the object is "authentic") , some should be highly corroded,
            some much less so.

            Since the "authentic" ones were sort of records of agreements rather
            than protective objects, these are more likely to have mojo if
            they're fake than if they're "authentic. :-}

            Regards

            Steve Price

            -- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com, "bobbybress" <baldobaboy@ ...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Region, any obvious sign they are counterfit. Large one has glass
            eyes
            > andsd stomach charm is boxlike and fronted by glass. Small blade
            > fetish doll has multiple cloth encased charms in it's armor. TIA
            to
            > anyone who helps to short cut my education. Just began reading.
            > Bought them because I always wanted a nail fetish doll since first
            > seeing one at a museum at five. With my luck of late, it couldn't
            hurt
            > to have protection against some curse unbeknownst to me behind my
            > unpleasantries of late if any mojo is left in them. Otherwise, I
            still
            > like them as I always have.
            >
            > http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/African_ Arts/photos/ browse/9f6d? c=
            >
            > Best,
            >
            > Bobby
            >


          • bobbybress
            Hi. Steve, On the large figure, some nails and nblades have varieagated levels of corrosion while other seem like they where out in at one time. is it
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 20, 2008
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              Hi. Steve,

              On the large figure, some nails and nblades have varieagated levels
              of corrosion while other seem like they where out in at one time. is
              it possible the sculpture was practically uused for a peried and then
              a bunch more nails were put in to make it more saleable to the
              holders POV. I will post a macro shot soon that shows the variation
              in corrotion at entry points on the large statue. on the small one
              it is hard to tell as the blades are packed in more tightly. FWIW, I
              now notice the eyes in my large sculpture are shell.

              Thanks for looking,

              Bob

              --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Price" <sprice@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Bobby
              >
              > The nails and the blades look quite uniform, usually a pretty good
              > sign that the objects were made for sale. Another thing to look
              for
              > is the corrosion at the points where the inserted objects penetrate
              > the body. If they were put in at different times (as would be the
              > case if the object is "authentic"), some should be highly corroded,
              > some much less so.
              >
              > Since the "authentic" ones were sort of records of agreements
              rather
              > than protective objects, these are more likely to have mojo if
              > they're fake than if they're "authentic. :-}
              >
              > Regards
              >
              > Steve Price
              >
              > -- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "bobbybress" <baldobaboy@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Region, any obvious sign they are counterfit. Large one has
              glass
              > eyes
              > > andsd stomach charm is boxlike and fronted by glass. Small blade
              > > fetish doll has multiple cloth encased charms in it's armor. TIA
              > to
              > > anyone who helps to short cut my education. Just began reading.
              > > Bought them because I always wanted a nail fetish doll since
              first
              > > seeing one at a museum at five. With my luck of late, it
              couldn't
              > hurt
              > > to have protection against some curse unbeknownst to me behind my
              > > unpleasantries of late if any mojo is left in them. Otherwise, I
              > still
              > > like them as I always have.
              > >
              > > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/browse/9f6d?
              c=
              > >
              > > Best,
              > >
              > > Bobby
              > >
              >
            • Lee Rubinstein
              Bob: See previous messages which include discussion and resources for the consideration and assessment of figures classified as Kongo minkisi (sing. nkisi).
              Message 6 of 8 , Aug 21, 2008
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                Bob:

                See previous messages which include discussion and resources for the consideration and assessment of figures classified as Kongo minkisi (sing. nkisi).  For links to some previous postings, see message 2030 and/or go to  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/messages and search nkisi.  

                Lee

                On Aug 20, 2008, at 3:59 PM, bobbybress wrote:

                Hi. Steve,

                On the large figure, some nails and nblades have varieagated levels 
                of corrosion while other seem like they where out in at one time. is 
                it possible the sculpture was practically uused for a peried and then 
                a bunch more nails were put in to make it more saleable to the 
                holders POV. I will post a macro shot soon that shows the variation 
                in corrotion at entry points on the large statue. on the small one 
                it is hard to tell as the blades are packed in more tightly. FWIW, I 
                now notice the eyes in my large sculpture are shell.

                Thanks for looking, 

                Bob

                --- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com, "Steve Price" <sprice@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Bobby
                > 
                > The nails and the blades look quite uniform, usually a pretty good 
                > sign that the objects were made for sale. Another thing to look 
                for 
                > is the corrosion at the points where the inserted objects penetrate 
                > the body. If they were put in at different times (as would be the 
                > case if the object is "authentic") , some should be highly corroded, 
                > some much less so.
                > 
                > Since the "authentic" ones were sort of records of agreements 
                rather 
                > than protective objects, these are more likely to have mojo if 
                > they're fake than if they're "authentic. :-}
                > 
                > Regards
                > 
                > Steve Price
                > 
                > -- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com, "bobbybress" <baldobaboy@ > 
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Region, any obvious sign they are counterfit. Large one has 
                glass 
                > eyes 
                > > andsd stomach charm is boxlike and fronted by glass. Small blade 
                > > fetish doll has multiple cloth encased charms in it's armor. TIA 
                > to 
                > > anyone who helps to short cut my education. Just began reading. 
                > > Bought them because I always wanted a nail fetish doll since 
                first 
                > > seeing one at a museum at five. With my luck of late, it 
                couldn't 
                > hurt 
                > > to have protection against some curse unbeknownst to me behind my 
                > > unpleasantries of late if any mojo is left in them. Otherwise, I 
                > still 
                > > like them as I always have. 
                > > 
                > > http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/African_ Arts/photos/ browse/9f6d?
                c=
                > > 
                > > Best,
                > > 
                > > Bobby
                > >
                >


              • bobby bress
                Thanks Lee,   I checked all the links.  Do you know a good place in los Angeles too have my sculpture s examined. TIA.   Bob ... From: Lee Rubinstein
                Message 7 of 8 , Aug 21, 2008
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                  Thanks Lee,
                   
                  I checked all the links.  Do you know a good place in los Angeles too have my sculpture's examined. TIA.
                   
                  Bob

                  --- On Thu, 8/21/08, Lee Rubinstein <LeeRubinstein@...> wrote:
                  From: Lee Rubinstein <LeeRubinstein@...>
                  Subject: Re: [African_Arts] Re: Newbie seeks preliminary ID nail and blade fetish dollsfetish dolls
                  To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 7:21 AM

                  Bob:

                  See previous messages which include discussion and resources for the consideration and assessment of figures classified as Kongo minkisi (sing. nkisi).  For links to some previous postings, see message 2030 and/or go to  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/African_ Arts/messages and search nkisi.  

                  Lee

                  On Aug 20, 2008, at 3:59 PM, bobbybress wrote:

                  Hi. Steve,

                  On the large figure, some nails and nblades have varieagated levels 
                  of corrosion while other seem like they where out in at one time. is 
                  it possible the sculpture was practically uused for a peried and then 
                  a bunch more nails were put in to make it more saleable to the 
                  holders POV. I will post a macro shot soon that shows the variation 
                  in corrotion at entry points on the large statue. on the small one 
                  it is hard to tell as the blades are packed in more tightly. FWIW, I 
                  now notice the eyes in my large sculpture are shell.

                  Thanks for looking, 

                  Bob

                  --- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com, "Steve Price" <sprice@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Bobby
                  > 
                  > The nails and the blades look quite uniform, usually a pretty good 
                  > sign that the objects were made for sale. Another thing to look 
                  for 
                  > is the corrosion at the points where the inserted objects penetrate 
                  > the body. If they were put in at different times (as would be the 
                  > case if the object is "authentic") , some should be highly corroded, 
                  > some much less so.
                  > 
                  > Since the "authentic" ones were sort of records of agreements 
                  rather 
                  > than protective objects, these are more likely to have mojo if 
                  > they're fake than if they're "authentic. :-}
                  > 
                  > Regards
                  > 
                  > Steve Price
                  > 
                  > -- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com, "bobbybress" <baldobaboy@ > 
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Region, any obvious sign they are counterfit. Large one has 
                  glass 
                  > eyes 
                  > > andsd stomach charm is boxlike and fronted by glass. Small blade 
                  > > fetish doll has multiple cloth encased charms in it's armor. TIA 
                  > to 
                  > > anyone who helps to short cut my education. Just began reading. 
                  > > Bought them because I always wanted a nail fetish doll since 
                  first 
                  > > seeing one at a museum at five. With my luck of late, it 
                  couldn't 
                  > hurt 
                  > > to have protection against some curse unbeknownst to me behind my 
                  > > unpleasantries of late if any mojo is left in them. Otherwise, I 
                  > still 
                  > > like them as I always have. 
                  > > 
                  > > http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/African_ Arts/photos/ browse/9f6d?
                  c=
                  > > 
                  > > Best,
                  > > 
                  > > Bobby
                  > >
                  >



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