Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Fw: [African_Arts] price upon request

Expand Messages
  • RAND (www.RandAfricanArt.com)
    Message below from Doug Yaney regarding this topic. Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [African_Arts] price upon request Hello Victor and
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 4, 2008
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      Message below from Doug Yaney regarding this topic.

      Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 2:55 PM
      Subject: Re: [African_Arts] price upon request

      Hello Victor and everyone else. I'd like to address the question about why dealers don't publish all prices on their websites and make you ask for some.  I can't speak for any other dealer, but the reason I don't post prices over a certain level on my website gallery is because the internet allows for too much anonymity.  All of my prices up to $5000 are displayed on the website www.douglasyaney.com , but if someone is honestly interested in a piece I have for sale over that level, I want to know something about who that person is. Not so I can add their address to a mailing list  that I can then sell, as someone suggested dealers do, but because it's the right thing to do.  After all, they know who I am because my name and contact information is on the website.   Many price requests come with only a return e-mail address and no other information, presumably because the curious party doesn't want to reveal anything about him/herself. I may then write and ask who they are and where they live before quoting the price.  This helps separate the non-serious from the serious buyers. I sometimes get price requests from other dealers, most likely as a curious comparison to a similar item they have for sale, but most are forthcoming with their identity, so I give them the price.   It's also been my experience that most serious buyers  have no problem providing me with all personal contact information about who and where they are.  In my opinion, anyone who insists on remaining anonymous most likely isn't very serious about making a purchase.  Most, I think,  are just curious. I'm a very small one person operation with limited time, so I always give priority to serious buyers who identify themselves.  I personally always try to respond to all requests in a timely manner, but I can see why some long time dealers might simply not have the time nor inclination to respond to anonymous requests that don't contribute anything to putting food on the table.  Another problem is, e-mails sometimes come in faster than there is time to respond, but that's something we all deal with.
       
      This is off the subject, but I'd like to mention it anyway. A bigger problem I have as a dealer is  I get an even larger number of  requests for a free price evaluation or opinion about something I don't even have for sale. People seem to think nothing of asking me to evaluate something they are considering buying or have bought elsewhere, or something the inquirer owns or inherited or bought at a yard sale.   I always politely decline because I'm not an appraiser, and because of  some bad past experiences when my opinion didn't match the inquirer's expectations. One guy called me every nasty name he could think of when I said the opposite of what he wanted to hear. He later went to some in a similar group to this one and he was told him the same thing that I told him, but he certainly never apologized to me.  Who needs the harassment when we're not even being paid for our time.   Ultimately we're doing this to make a living to pay our bills, not to constantly give away our time, experience  and free information.  That's what libraries and museums are for, and if a value is needed, pay an art appraiser for their time and efforts. That's what they were trained for. On the other hand, I certainly don't mind working with someone who is a possible budding collector, as long as they are up front with me.  
       
      One last thing, for what it's worth, I have never sold or shared any e-mail address on my mailing list.  The list is used strictly as an occasional  communication tool between me and the people who register, to let them know when I've added more items or am having some sort of promotion.  I would hope this is the way all dealers work. I admit, I have been known to add an occasional address to my list if I think the person might be interested in African art, but if anyone doesn't want to be on the list, it's so simple and easy to remove your address when you receive my next mailing.  Thank you so much  for your time.
       
      Sincerely,
      Doug Yaney
       
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:15 AM
      Subject: [African_Arts] price upon request

      Why do online dealers make you ask for the price of some objects and not others?
      Do I need a special code or online handshake to obtain the prices?
      Why can't I get them?


    • Steve Price
      Hi Doug Since I m the guy who said that one of the reasons some dealers don t post prices is so they can exercise salesmanship and create a contact list that
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 4, 2008
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Doug

        Since I'm the guy who said that one of the reasons some dealers don't
        post prices is so they can exercise salesmanship and create a contact
        list that they can use or sell, I thought I ought to say a word or
        two about your post.

        First, I don't doubt that what you say is true, and never suggested
        that these were the only motives or that everyone who posted "price
        on request" had them. I think those motives are fairly common, but
        my evidence is anecdotal. At least one very well known seller
        accepts payment for forwarding promotional material from other
        sellers to those on the list; requiring inquiries in order to
        establish personal contact with potential buyers isn't peculiar to
        those who deal in African art.

        I know of no solution to the problem of being seen as expert enough
        to warrant being asked to serve as a consultant by novices. One way
        to handle it might be to create a modest fee for which you would
        provide an honest opinion (= informal appraisal). At the very least,
        you'd learn whether some of the folks who contact you for opinions
        think you're expert enough to be worth paying for them.

        Regards

        Steve Price


        --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "RAND
        \(www.RandAfricanArt.com\)" <rand@...> wrote:
        >
        > Message below from Doug Yaney regarding this topic.
        >
        > Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 2:55 PM
        > Subject: Re: [African_Arts] price upon request
        >
        >
        >
        > Hello Victor and everyone else. I'd like to address the question
        about why dealers don't publish all prices on their websites and make
        you ask for some. I can't speak for any other dealer, but the reason
        I don't post prices over a certain level on my website gallery is
        because the internet allows for too much anonymity. All of my prices
        up to $5000 are displayed on the website www.douglasyaney.com , but
        if someone is honestly interested in a piece I have for sale over
        that level, I want to know something about who that person is. Not so
        I can add their address to a mailing list that I can then sell, as
        someone suggested dealers do, but because it's the right thing to
        do. After all, they know who I am because my name and contact
        information is on the website. Many price requests come with only a
        return e-mail address and no other information, presumably because
        the curious party doesn't want to reveal anything about him/herself.
        I may then write and ask who they are
        > and where they live before quoting the price. This helps separate
        the non-serious from the serious buyers. I sometimes get price
        requests from other dealers, most likely as a curious comparison to a
        similar item they have for sale, but most are forthcoming with their
        identity, so I give them the price. It's also been my experience
        that most serious buyers have no problem providing me with all
        personal contact information about who and where they are. In my
        opinion, anyone who insists on remaining anonymous most likely isn't
        very serious about making a purchase. Most, I think, are just
        curious. I'm a very small one person operation with limited time, so
        I always give priority to serious buyers who identify themselves. I
        personally always try to respond to all requests in a timely manner,
        but I can see why some long time dealers might simply not have the
        time nor inclination to respond to anonymous requests that don't
        contribute anything to putting food on the table.
        > Another problem is, e-mails sometimes come in faster than there
        is time to respond, but that's something we all deal with.
        >
        > This is off the subject, but I'd like to mention it anyway. A
        bigger problem I have as a dealer is I get an even larger number of
        requests for a free price evaluation or opinion about something I
        don't even have for sale. People seem to think nothing of asking me
        to evaluate something they are considering buying or have bought
        elsewhere, or something the inquirer owns or inherited or bought at a
        yard sale. I always politely decline because I'm not an appraiser,
        and because of some bad past experiences when my opinion didn't
        match the inquirer's expectations. One guy called me every nasty name
        he could think of when I said the opposite of what he wanted to hear.
        He later went to some in a similar group to this one and he was told
        him the same thing that I told him, but he certainly never apologized
        to me. Who needs the harassment when we're not even being paid for
        our time. Ultimately we're doing this to make a living to pay our
        bills, not to constantly give away
        > our time, experience and free information. That's what libraries
        and museums are for, and if a value is needed, pay an art appraiser
        for their time and efforts. That's what they were trained for. On the
        other hand, I certainly don't mind working with someone who is a
        possible budding collector, as long as they are up front with me.
        >
        > One last thing, for what it's worth, I have never sold or shared
        any e-mail address on my mailing list. The list is used strictly as
        an occasional communication tool between me and the people who
        register, to let them know when I've added more items or am having
        some sort of promotion. I would hope this is the way all dealers
        work. I admit, I have been known to add an occasional address to my
        list if I think the person might be interested in African art, but if
        anyone doesn't want to be on the list, it's so simple and easy to
        remove your address when you receive my next mailing. Thank you so
        much for your time.
        >
        > Sincerely,
        > Doug Yaney
        > www.douglasyaney.com
        > africanart@...
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: victorcinti1
        > To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:15 AM
        > Subject: [African_Arts] price upon request
        >
        >
        > Why do online dealers make you ask for the price of some
        objects and not others?
        > Do I need a special code or online handshake to obtain the prices?
        > Why can't I get them?
        >
        >
        >
        > #ygrp-mkp { BORDER-RIGHT: #d8d8d8 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT:
        14px; BORDER-TOP: #d8d8d8 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 14px; PADDING-
        BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 14px 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #d8d8d8 1px solid;
        PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d8d8d8 1px solid; FONT-FAMILY:
        Arial } #ygrp-mkp HR { BORDER-RIGHT: #d8d8d8 1px solid; BORDER-
        TOP: #d8d8d8 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #d8d8d8 1px solid; BORDER-
        BOTTOM: #d8d8d8 1px solid } #ygrp-mkp #hd { FONT-WEIGHT: bold;
        FONT-SIZE: 85%; MARGIN: 10px 0px; COLOR: #628c2a; LINE-HEIGHT:
        122% } #ygrp-mkp #ads { MARGIN-BOTTOM: 10px } #ygrp-mkp .ad {
        PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-
        TOP: 0px } #ygrp-mkp .ad A { COLOR: #0000ff; TEXT-DECORATION:
        none }
        >
      • Doug
        Hi Steve, I ve seen your name on here for a long time, so it s good to hear from you. Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I ve always pretty much stayed
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 4, 2008
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Steve,
           
          I've seen your name on here for a long time, so it's good to hear from you. Thanks for your comments and suggestions.  I've always pretty much stayed to myself, doing my own thing, never really contributing to the ongoing dialog here, although always enjoying it and learning from it.  I decided to give my reasons for what I do when no other dealers were offering their reasons.  I'm sure everyone has different motivation for the policies they set, some based on past good or bad experiences, some on ulterior motive, some on time restraints.  Art dealers are just regular people trying to make a living selling something that is ultimately a luxury and the first thing to go off the budget when times are hard. It's not an easy business to be in but like many professions, we do it because we love the art itself.  The politics of it all I do my best to avoid.  Thanks again for writing Steve.  Take care.
           
          Doug
           
          Douglas Yaney Gallery
          African Art - Haitian Art
          website:  www.douglasyaney.com
          e-mail:  africanart@...
          tel: 386-426-8200 (USA - eastern time)
          fax: 386-426-0033
           
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 1:34 PM
          Subject: Re: Fw: [African_Arts] price upon request

           

          Hi Doug

          Since I'm the guy who said that one of the reasons some dealers don't
          post prices is so they can exercise salesmanship and create a contact
          list that they can use or sell, I thought I ought to say a word or
          two about your post.

          First, I don't doubt that what you say is true, and never suggested
          that these were the only motives or that everyone who posted "price
          on request" had them. I think those motives are fairly common, but
          my evidence is anecdotal. At least one very well known seller
          accepts payment for forwarding promotional material from other
          sellers to those on the list; requiring inquiries in order to
          establish personal contact with potential buyers isn't peculiar to
          those who deal in African art.

          I know of no solution to the problem of being seen as expert enough
          to warrant being asked to serve as a consultant by novices. One way
          to handle it might be to create a modest fee for which you would
          provide an honest opinion (= informal appraisal). At the very least,
          you'd learn whether some of the folks who contact you for opinions
          think you're expert enough to be worth paying for them.

          Regards

          Steve Price

          .

        • Steve Price
          Hi Doug I hope I didn t give anyone the impression that I object to dealers making a buck. If they don t, how can I indulge my collector neurosis? I was just
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 5, 2008
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Doug

            I hope I didn't give anyone the impression that I object to dealers
            making a buck. If they don't, how can I indulge my collector
            neurosis? I was just trying to answer the question someone asked:
            why aren't prices always posted?

            Incidentally, for REAL collectors, the neurosis makes acquisition the
            last thing to go when budgets get tight. Well, maybe not last. But
            certainly not first.

            Regards

            Steve Price

            --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "Doug" <douva@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Steve,
            >
            > I've seen your name on here for a long time, so it's good to hear
            from you. Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I've always
            pretty much stayed to myself, doing my own thing, never really
            contributing to the ongoing dialog here, although always enjoying it
            and learning from it. I decided to give my reasons for what I do
            when no other dealers were offering their reasons. I'm sure everyone
            has different motivation for the policies they set, some based on
            past good or bad experiences, some on ulterior motive, some on time
            restraints. Art dealers are just regular people trying to make a
            living selling something that is ultimately a luxury and the first
            thing to go off the budget when times are hard. It's not an easy
            business to be in but like many professions, we do it because we love
            the art itself. The politics of it all I do my best to avoid.
            Thanks again for writing Steve. Take care.
            >
            > Doug
            >
            > Douglas Yaney Gallery
            > African Art - Haitian Art
            > website: www.douglasyaney.com
            > e-mail: africanart@...
            > tel: 386-426-8200 (USA - eastern time)
            > fax: 386-426-0033
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Steve Price
            > To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 1:34 PM
            > Subject: Re: Fw: [African_Arts] price upon request
            >
            >
            > Hi Doug
            >
            > Since I'm the guy who said that one of the reasons some dealers
            don't
            > post prices is so they can exercise salesmanship and create a
            contact
            > list that they can use or sell, I thought I ought to say a word
            or
            > two about your post.
            >
            > First, I don't doubt that what you say is true, and never
            suggested
            > that these were the only motives or that everyone who
            posted "price
            > on request" had them. I think those motives are fairly common,
            but
            > my evidence is anecdotal. At least one very well known seller
            > accepts payment for forwarding promotional material from other
            > sellers to those on the list; requiring inquiries in order to
            > establish personal contact with potential buyers isn't peculiar
            to
            > those who deal in African art.
            >
            > I know of no solution to the problem of being seen as expert
            enough
            > to warrant being asked to serve as a consultant by novices. One
            way
            > to handle it might be to create a modest fee for which you would
            > provide an honest opinion (= informal appraisal). At the very
            least,
            > you'd learn whether some of the folks who contact you for
            opinions
            > think you're expert enough to be worth paying for them.
            >
            > Regards
            >
            > Steve Price
            >
            >
            > .
            >
          • sanibelart@comcast.net
            Hi Doug, Steve et al: I commented on this before. But here s a repeat shot. From our standpoint, some items can be displayed with price. Thee mostly are lower
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 5, 2008
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Doug, Steve et al:
               
              I commented on this before. But here's a repeat shot.
               
              From our standpoint, some items can be displayed with price. Thee mostly are lower priced items.
               
              On the higher end of the market, not showing the price encourages and interested party to inquire and begin a dialogue resulting in a price that is high enough to satisfy the seller yet low enough to please the buyer.
               
              Also the difference between the highest possible price and the lowest possible price can leave a lot of money on the table for the seller. It also can discourage a buyer who is not ready to pay the highest "asking price" from even exploring if the item is availalbe at a lower price.
               
              With a subject as emotional, subjective and competitive as tribal art, many buyers are reluctant to offer a lower price with out some foreplay, for fear of insulting the seller or being insulted in return.
               
              Perhaps a better solution would be quote an "asking price" and add an encouragement to "make an offer."
               
              I might try that.
              --
              Sincerely,
              Susanne & William Ernest Waites
              Aboriginals: Art of the First Person
              http://www.tribalworks.com
              http://www.ZuniLink.com
              http://www.Native-PotteryLink.com
              http://www.Native-JewelryLink.com

              http://www.TribalArtery.blogspot.com
               
              -------------- Original message --------------
              From: "Steve Price" <sprice@...>

              Hi Doug

              I hope I didn't give anyone the impression that I object to dealers
              making a buck. If they don't, how can I indulge my collector
              neurosis? I was just trying to answer the question someone asked:
              why aren't prices always posted?

              Incidentally, for REAL collectors, the neurosis makes acquisition the
              last thing to go when budgets get tight. Well, maybe not last. But
              certainly not first.

              Regards

              Steve Price

              --- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com, "Doug" <douva@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Steve,
              >
              > I've seen your name on here for a long time, so it's good to hear
              from you. Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I've always
              pretty much stayed to myself, doing my own thing, never really
              contributing to the ongoing dialog here, although always enjoying it
              and learning from it. I decided to give my reasons for what I do
              wh en no other dealers were offering their reasons. I'm sure everyone
              has different motivation for the policies they set, some based on
              past good or bad experiences, some on ulterior motive, some on time
              restraints. Art dealers are just regular people trying to make a
              living selling something that is ultimately a luxury and the first
              thing to go off the budget when times are hard. It's not an easy
              business to be in but like many professions, we do it because we love
              the art itself. The politics of it all I do my best to avoid.
              Thanks again for writing Steve. Take care.
              >
              > Doug
              >
              > Douglas Yaney Gallery
              > African Art - Haitian Art
              > website: www.douglasyaney. com
              > e-mail: africanart@. ..
              > tel: 386-426-8200 (USA - eastern time)
              > fax: 386-426-0033
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Steve Price
              > To: African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com
              > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 1:34 PM
              > Subject: Re: Fw: [African_Arts] price upon request
              >
              >
              > Hi Doug
              >
              > Since I'm the guy who said that one of the reasons some dealers
              don't
              > post prices is so they can exercise salesmanship and create a
              contact
              > list that they can use or sell, I thought I ought to say a word
              or
              > two about your post.
              >
              > First, I don't doubt that what you say is true, and never
              suggested
              > that these were the only motives or that everyone who
              posted "price
              > on request" had them. I think those motives are fairly common,
              but
              > my evidence is anecdotal. At least one very well known seller
              > accepts payment for forwarding promotional material from other
              > sellers to those on the list; requiring inquiries in order to
              > establish personal contact with potential buyers isn't peculiar
              to
              > those who deal in African art.
              >
              > I know of no solution to the problem of being seen as expert
              enough
              > to warrant being asked to serve as a consultant by novices. One
              way
              > to handle it might be to create a modest fee for which you would
              > provide an honest opinion (= informal appraisal). At the very
              least,
              > you'd learn whether some of the folks who contact you for
              opinions
              > think you're expert enough to be worth paying for them.
              >
              > Regards
              >
              > Steve Price
              >
              >
              > .
              >

               
            • toguna2002
              Hi Doug, Steve et al: Sometimes it depends on the manner how someone asks for a price. An email sent out of the anonymity of the internet written like how
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 6, 2008
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Doug, Steve et al:
                Sometimes it depends on the manner how someone asks for a price. An
                email sent out of the anonymity of the internet written like "how
                much this" – with an address like "bomber@..." and signed
                "B.R."… I think this is not the nicest way to make inquiries and
                communication in general.
                Then, if the dealer gives the informations by email (and maybe the
                price is out of your reach ) how many of the "prospective buyers"
                have the courage to answer – at least with a "thank you"?!
                That's my "internet experience" . Therefore I understand other dealers
                who likewise only give informations about prices by email if they know
                the clients personally.
                And ( maybe I`m wrong ) which serious horse lover will buy a valuable
                horse only from a picture that he has seen in the internet?

                Sincerely,
                Armin Bies
                www.galerie-orisha.de
              • Steve Price
                Hi Armin And ( maybe I`m wrong ) which serious horse lover will buy a valuable horse only from a picture that he has seen in the internet? You re probably
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 6, 2008
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Armin

                  "And ( maybe I`m wrong ) which serious horse lover will buy a
                  valuable horse only from a picture that he has seen in the internet?"

                  You're probably right. I just checked eBay, and there isn't even one
                  live horse for sale.

                  I usually close with "regards", but we don't know each other
                  personally.

                  Steve Price



                  --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "toguna2002" <toguna2002@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Doug, Steve et al:
                  > Sometimes it depends on the manner how someone asks for a price. An
                  > email sent out of the anonymity of the internet written like "how
                  > much this" – with an address like "bomber@..." and signed
                  > "B.R."… I think this is not the nicest way to make inquiries and
                  > communication in general.
                  > Then, if the dealer gives the informations by email (and maybe the
                  > price is out of your reach ) how many of the "prospective buyers"
                  > have the courage to answer – at least with a "thank you"?!
                  > That's my "internet experience" . Therefore I understand other
                  dealers
                  > who likewise only give informations about prices by email if they
                  know
                  > the clients personally.
                  > And ( maybe I`m wrong ) which serious horse lover will buy a
                  valuable
                  > horse only from a picture that he has seen in the internet?
                  >
                  > Sincerely,
                  > Armin Bies
                  > www.galerie-orisha.de
                  >
                • johnhf1947
                  Bon Soir, Is it not blindingly obvious that to show an item without a price is an attempt to create a dialogue? In the old days of walk in galleries (remember
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 7, 2008
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Bon Soir,

                    Is it not blindingly obvious that to show an item without a price is an attempt to
                    create a dialogue? In the old days of walk in galleries (remember them?) the
                    proprietor and prospective buyer could size each other up a long time before
                    pleasantries were exchanged. As a youth I had great pleasure in annoying self
                    important London gallery owners by wearing wrecked shoes - its the shoes they
                    looked at first -picking up a highly priced object , asking one or two pre rehearsed
                    erudite questions and then asking if they had anything better.

                    I must also take issue with Steve Price's statement that we do not buy 'live horses' -
                    obviously a metaphor for animals - on ebay. I will not be the only member of the
                    group who, in the search for African goodies, who has bought some real turkeys.

                    Regards ( I know we do not know each other personally, but we unintentional poultry
                    buyers are a genial lot)

                    John F





                    --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Price" <sprice@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Armin
                    >
                    > "And ( maybe I`m wrong ) which serious horse lover will buy a
                    > valuable horse only from a picture that he has seen in the internet?"
                    >
                    > You're probably right. I just checked eBay, and there isn't even one
                    > live horse for sale.
                    >
                    > I usually close with "regards", but we don't know each other
                    > personally.
                    >
                    > Steve Price
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "toguna2002" <toguna2002@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi Doug, Steve et al:
                    > > Sometimes it depends on the manner how someone asks for a price. An
                    > > email sent out of the anonymity of the internet written like "how
                    > > much this" – with an address like "bomber@" and signed
                    > > "B.R."… I think this is not the nicest way to make inquiries and
                    > > communication in general.
                    > > Then, if the dealer gives the informations by email (and maybe the
                    > > price is out of your reach ) how many of the "prospective buyers"
                    > > have the courage to answer – at least with a "thank you"?!
                    > > That's my "internet experience" . Therefore I understand other
                    > dealers
                    > > who likewise only give informations about prices by email if they
                    > know
                    > > the clients personally.
                    > > And ( maybe I`m wrong ) which serious horse lover will buy a
                    > valuable
                    > > horse only from a picture that he has seen in the internet?
                    > >
                    > > Sincerely,
                    > > Armin Bies
                    > > www.galerie-orisha.de
                    > >
                    >
                  • M.E.F.
                    Thanks Steve and John for being so witty! It makes a change. Good reading first thing in the morning, coffee mug by my side.   I am going to be (a lot less
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 7, 2008
                    View Source
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks Steve and John for being so witty! It makes a change. Good reading first thing in the morning, coffee mug by my side.
                       
                      I am going to be (a lot less witty) (and a lot  more) provocative if not my usual down right tactless self and ask if the person who asked for prices might not have annoyed the seller in some way? After all, he wants to sell and would not want to alienate potential buyers. Though not a dealer in any way myself, I want us to consider what a difficult business this is and how hard it is to actually make a living. I know one or two young man and women who indulge their love for this form of art and hope to actually be able to live off it and just a very few who made a name for themselves a long time ago, actually do. I sense a bit of discomfort even with those.
                       
                      Think about it and lets be kind to the people who supply our habit..Margalit

                      --- On Thu, 8/7/08, johnhf1947 <johnhfalkner@...> wrote:
                      From: johnhf1947 <johnhfalkner@...>
                      Subject: Re: Fw: [African_Arts] price upon request
                      To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 11:33 PM


                      Bon Soir,

                      Is it not blindingly obvious that to show an item without a price is an attempt to
                      create a dialogue? In the old days of walk in galleries (remember them?) the
                      proprietor and prospective buyer could size each other up a long time before
                      pleasantries were exchanged. As a youth I had great pleasure in annoying self
                      important London gallery owners by wearing wrecked shoes - its the shoes they
                      looked at first -picking up a highly priced object , asking one or two pre rehearsed
                      erudite questions and then asking if they had anything better.

                      I must also take issue with Steve Price's statement that we do not buy 'live horses' -
                      obviously a metaphor for animals - on ebay. I will not be the only member of the
                      group who, in the search for African goodies, who has bought some real turkeys.

                      Regards ( I know we do not know each other personally, but we unintentional poultry
                      buyers are a genial lot)

                      John F

                      --- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com, "Steve Price" <sprice@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Armin
                      >
                      > "And ( maybe I`m wrong ) which serious horse lover will buy a
                      > valuable horse only from a picture that he has seen in the internet?"
                      >
                      > You're probably right. I just checked eBay, and there isn't even one
                      > live horse for sale.
                      >
                      > I usually close with "regards", but we don't know each other
                      > personally.
                      >
                      > Steve Price
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com, "toguna2002" <toguna2002@ >
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi Doug, Steve et al:
                      > > Sometimes it depends on the manner how someone asks for a price. An
                      > > email sent out of the anonymity of the internet written like "how
                      > > much this" – with an address like "bomber@" and signed
                      > > "B.R."… I think this is not the nicest way to make inquiries and
                      > > communication in general.
                      > > Then, if the dealer gives the informations by email (and maybe the
                      > > price is out of your reach ) how many of the "prospective buyers"
                      > > have the courage to answer – at least with a "thank you"?!
                      > > That's my "internet experience" . Therefore I understand other
                      > dealers
                      > > who likewise only give informations about prices by email if they
                      > know
                      > > the clients personally.
                      > > And ( maybe I`m wrong ) which serious horse lover will buy a
                      > valuable
                      > > horse only from a picture that he has seen in the internet?
                      > >
                      > > Sincerely,
                      > > Armin Bies
                      > > www.galerie- orisha.de
                      > >
                      >


                    • Tookalook.com
                      Hello to all, I have been following this thread with interest as I am one of these dealers who choose not to show prices on my website (www.tookalook.com
                      Message 10 of 13 , Aug 8, 2008
                      View Source
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Hello to all,

                        I have been following this thread with interest as I am one of these dealers who choose not to show prices on my website (www.tookalook.com). 

                        After nearly 10 years in business on the web I think I am one who has tried every manner and technique to see which yeilds the best result.  I can only say , despite the raging debate, that I find not showing prices to be the only way to go.  The reasons are many in the chess game that is selling on the web but first and foremost, as some of you have remarked, is that this is the only way in which I have any chance of engaging a potential buyer in dialogue.   This important point cascades into many other factors/reasons.

                        Selling on the web is a game of tactics.   While it may begin with luring (if I may be so candid) a potential buyer with attractive items the simple fact is that people end up window shopping and simply 'moving along'  if they find that the listed price doesn't suit them for whatever reason.  As a dealer, listing prices means that we shoot our entire arsenal in one shot, not leaving any second chance for discussion, negotiation or proposing new works to said potential buyers (who may pass on items shown but be interested in other items held in stock).

                        I can only say,for myself, that not everything I own is on my site for that very same reason.  It allows me to respond positively to the inevitable "do you have anything else similar (or other)".  Folks like to think that they may have an exclusive viewing at times. (it's also the reason for which I asked my programmers to allow for the creation of private galleries on my site, that I can aim to specific buyers).

                        I too, when shopping the web, like to see prices listed but I like that for obvious selfish reasons.  As a buyer, my questions are immediately and anonymously answered whether shopping, comparing or just learning.   That said, I understand that this works for me but not necessarily for the seller, as I often walk away without contacting the seller, or worse, without buying.

                        We dealers deal.  Some days  may see us proposing items at tiny margins above our cost and while doubling up (for eg) on other days.   The reality of our daily / weekly 'needs' may dictate how we feel about pricing an object on a given day, over and above the 'regular' pricing that our purchase price dictates.  It's a simple fact of life and buyers could understand that we forego that opportunity if we list our prices outright.    Same goes for an item that we may have had in stock for long and wish to move along on a given day.

                        Dealers also wish to build a client list (or email list, as applies on the web).  Inquiries allow us to add to email lists while shoppers that look and pass on do not.

                        Simply said, without writing a 3 page post, not listing prices gives us an opportunity to be engaged in the game, rather than just standing by with fingers crossed.  

                        Hoping this sheds a bit of light, with Warmest Regards to all!

                        Marc

                         

                         


                        --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "johnhf1947" <johnhfalkner@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Bon Soir,
                        >
                        > Is it not blindingly obvious that to show an item without a price is an attempt to
                        > create a dialogue? In the old days of walk in galleries (remember them?) the
                        > proprietor and prospective buyer could size each other up a long time before
                        > pleasantries were exchanged. As a youth I had great pleasure in annoying self
                        > important London gallery owners by wearing wrecked shoes - its the shoes they
                        > looked at first -picking up a highly priced object , asking one or two pre rehearsed
                        > erudite questions and then asking if they had anything better.
                        >
                        > I must also take issue with Steve Price's statement that we do not buy 'live horses' -
                        > obviously a metaphor for animals - on ebay. I will not be the only member of the
                        > group who, in the search for African goodies, who has bought some real turkeys.
                        >
                        > Regards ( I know we do not know each other personally, but we unintentional poultry
                        > buyers are a genial lot)
                        >
                        > John F
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Price" sprice@ wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi Armin
                        > >
                        > > "And ( maybe I`m wrong ) which serious horse lover will buy a
                        > > valuable horse only from a picture that he has seen in the internet?"
                        > >
                        > > You're probably right. I just checked eBay, and there isn't even one
                        > > live horse for sale.
                        > >
                        > > I usually close with "regards", but we don't know each other
                        > > personally.
                        > >
                        > > Steve Price
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "toguna2002" <toguna2002@>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hi Doug, Steve et al:
                        > > > Sometimes it depends on the manner how someone asks for a price. An
                        > > > email sent out of the anonymity of the internet written like "how
                        > > > much this" – with an address like "bomber@" and signed
                        > > > "B.R."… I think this is not the nicest way to make inquiries and
                        > > > communication in general.
                        > > > Then, if the dealer gives the informations by email (and maybe the
                        > > > price is out of your reach ) how many of the "prospective buyers"
                        > > > have the courage to answer – at least with a "thank you"?!
                        > > > That's my "internet experience" . Therefore I understand other
                        > > dealers
                        > > > who likewise only give informations about prices by email if they
                        > > know
                        > > > the clients personally.
                        > > > And ( maybe I`m wrong ) which serious horse lover will buy a
                        > > valuable
                        > > > horse only from a picture that he has seen in the internet?
                        > > >
                        > > > Sincerely,
                        > > > Armin Bies
                        > > > www.galerie-orisha.de
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >

                      • Steve Price
                        Hi Marc Your motivation is pretty much what I expected would be true for most internet dealers. It makes sense (to me, at least) to initiate dialogs with
                        Message 11 of 13 , Aug 8, 2008
                        View Source
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Marc

                          Your motivation is pretty much what I expected would be true for most
                          internet dealers. It makes sense (to me, at least) to initiate
                          dialogs with potential buyers, and that's a good way to do it.

                          I was surprised by Armin Bies approach, exactly the opposite of
                          yours - he says that he'll respond to inquiries about prices only if
                          they come from people he already knows personally. It looks like
                          these are diametrically opposite models for selling African art on
                          the internet. I have to assume that both work well enough to keep
                          beer in the seller's refrigerator.

                          Regards

                          Steve Price


                          --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "Tookalook.com" <bullseye@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Hello to all,
                          >
                          > I have been following this thread with interest as I am one of these
                          > dealers who choose not to show prices on my website
                          (www.tookalook.com
                          > <http://www.tookalook.com> ).
                          >
                          > After nearly 10 years in business on the web I think I am one who
                          has
                          > tried every manner and technique to see which yeilds the best
                          result. I
                          > can only say , despite the raging debate, that I find not showing
                          prices
                          > to be the only way to go. The reasons are many in the chess game
                          that
                          > is selling on the web but first and foremost, as some of you have
                          > remarked, is that this is the only way in which I have any chance of
                          > engaging a potential buyer in dialogue. This important point
                          cascades
                          > into many other factors/reasons.
                          >
                          > Selling on the web is a game of tactics. While it may begin with
                          > luring (if I may be so candid) a potential buyer with attractive
                          items
                          > the simple fact is that people end up window shopping and
                          simply 'moving
                          > along' if they find that the listed price doesn't suit them for
                          > whatever reason. As a dealer, listing prices means that we shoot
                          our
                          > entire arsenal in one shot, not leaving any second chance for
                          > discussion, negotiation or proposing new works to said potential
                          buyers
                          > (who may pass on items shown but be interested in other items held
                          in
                          > stock).
                          >
                          > I can only say,for myself, that not everything I own is on my site
                          for
                          > that very same reason. It allows me to respond positively to the
                          > inevitable "do you have anything else similar (or other)". Folks
                          like
                          > to think that they may have an exclusive viewing at times. (it's
                          also
                          > the reason for which I asked my programmers to allow for the
                          creation of
                          > private galleries on my site, that I can aim to specific buyers).
                          >
                          > I too, when shopping the web, like to see prices listed but I like
                          that
                          > for obvious selfish reasons. As a buyer, my questions are
                          immediately
                          > and anonymously answered whether shopping, comparing or just
                          learning.
                          > That said, I understand that this works for me but not necessarily
                          for
                          > the seller, as I often walk away without contacting the seller, or
                          > worse, without buying.
                          >
                          > We dealers deal. Some days may see us proposing items at tiny
                          margins
                          > above our cost and while doubling up (for eg) on other days. The
                          > reality of our daily / weekly 'needs' may dictate how we feel about
                          > pricing an object on a given day, over and above the 'regular'
                          pricing
                          > that our purchase price dictates. It's a simple fact of life and
                          buyers
                          > could understand that we forego that opportunity if we list our
                          prices
                          > outright. Same goes for an item that we may have had in stock for
                          > long and wish to move along on a given day.
                          >
                          > Dealers also wish to build a client list (or email list, as applies
                          on
                          > the web). Inquiries allow us to add to email lists while shoppers
                          that
                          > look and pass on do not.
                          >
                          > Simply said, without writing a 3 page post, not listing prices
                          gives us
                          > an opportunity to be engaged in the game, rather than just standing
                          by
                          > with fingers crossed.
                          >
                          > Hoping this sheds a bit of light, with Warmest Regards to all!
                          >
                          > Marc
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "johnhf1947" <johnhfalkner@>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Bon Soir,
                          > >
                          > > Is it not blindingly obvious that to show an item without a price
                          is
                          > an attempt to
                          > > create a dialogue? In the old days of walk in galleries (remember
                          > them?) the
                          > > proprietor and prospective buyer could size each other up a long
                          time
                          > before
                          > > pleasantries were exchanged. As a youth I had great pleasure in
                          > annoying self
                          > > important London gallery owners by wearing wrecked shoes - its the
                          > shoes they
                          > > looked at first -picking up a highly priced object , asking one
                          or two
                          > pre rehearsed
                          > > erudite questions and then asking if they had anything better.
                          > >
                          > > I must also take issue with Steve Price's statement that we do
                          not buy
                          > 'live horses' -
                          > > obviously a metaphor for animals - on ebay. I will not be the only
                          > member of the
                          > > group who, in the search for African goodies, who has bought some
                          real
                          > turkeys.
                          > >
                          > > Regards ( I know we do not know each other personally, but we
                          > unintentional poultry
                          > > buyers are a genial lot)
                          > >
                          > > John F
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Price" sprice@ wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Hi Armin
                          > > >
                          > > > "And ( maybe I`m wrong ) which serious horse lover will buy a
                          > > > valuable horse only from a picture that he has seen in the
                          > internet?"
                          > > >
                          > > > You're probably right. I just checked eBay, and there isn't
                          even one
                          > > > live horse for sale.
                          > > >
                          > > > I usually close with "regards", but we don't know each other
                          > > > personally.
                          > > >
                          > > > Steve Price
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "toguna2002" <toguna2002@>
                          > > > wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Hi Doug, Steve et al:
                          > > > > Sometimes it depends on the manner how someone asks for a
                          price.
                          > An
                          > > > > email sent out of the anonymity of the internet written
                          like "how
                          > > > > much this" – with an address like "bomber@" and signed
                          > > > > "B.R."… I think this is not the nicest way to make inquiries
                          > and
                          > > > > communication in general.
                          > > > > Then, if the dealer gives the informations by email (and
                          maybe the
                          > > > > price is out of your reach ) how many of the "prospective
                          buyers"
                          > > > > have the courage to answer – at least with a "thank you"?!
                          > > > > That's my "internet experience" . Therefore I understand other
                          > > > dealers
                          > > > > who likewise only give informations about prices by email if
                          they
                          > > > know
                          > > > > the clients personally.
                          > > > > And ( maybe I`m wrong ) which serious horse lover will buy a
                          > > > valuable
                          > > > > horse only from a picture that he has seen in the internet?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Sincerely,
                          > > > > Armin Bies
                          > > > > www.galerie-orisha.de
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Ed Jones
                          I think, the very reasons Marc mentioned is why many in the retail world - globally reflects a price upon request strategy, especially in ceratin tourist
                          Message 12 of 13 , Aug 8, 2008
                          View Source
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I think, the very reasons Marc mentioned is why many in the retail world - globally reflects a "price upon request" strategy, especially in ceratin tourist areas and developing economies as well.
                             
                            I have always understood it as just that, "a strategy" for selling and it is can be very effective for both at times.  I actually enjoy it with my favorite merchants, especially in Turkey.  When I was in Tunisia, I noticed the haggling get's down-right aggressive and a bit demeaning as it seems.  After agreement (purchase), both parties enjoy tea and a meal - emerging in a friendly and wonderful way.   It is also understandable why a nation accustomed to displayed and "fixed" prices would object and perceive a negative bias to this sort of thing.
                             
                            It's nothing more than "haggling or jostling" and is as old as man-kind.  This is nothing new... it is healthy when there is mutual respect between buyer and seller and both parties understand the "strategy".
                             
                            Ed.  

                            --- On Fri, 8/8/08, Tookalook.com <bullseye@...> wrote:
                            From: Tookalook.com <bullseye@...>
                            Subject: Re: Fw: [African_Arts] price upon request
                            To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Friday, August 8, 2008, 5:48 AM

                            Hello to all,
                            I have been following this thread with interest as I am one of these dealers who choose not to show prices on my website (www.tookalook. com). 
                            After nearly 10 years in business on the web I think I am one who has tried every manner and technique to see which yeilds the best result.  I can only say , despite the raging debate, that I find not showing prices to be the only way to go.  The reasons are many in the chess game that is selling on the web but first and foremost, as some of you have remarked, is that this is the only way in which I have any chance of engaging a potential buyer in dialogue.   This important point cascades into many other factors/reasons.
                            Selling on the web is a game of tactics.   While it may begin with luring (if I may be so candid) a potential buyer with attractive items the simple fact is that people end up window shopping and simply 'moving along'  if they find that the listed price doesn't suit them for whatever reason.  As a dealer, listing prices means that we shoot our entire arsenal in one shot, not leaving any second chance for discussion, negotiation or proposing new works to said potential buyers (who may pass on items shown but be interested in other items held in stock).
                            I can only say,for myself, that not everything I own is on my site for that very same reason.  It allows me to respond positively to the inevitable "do you have anything else similar (or other)".  Folks like to think that they may have an exclusive viewing at times. (it's also the reason for which I asked my programmers to allow for the creation of private galleries on my site, that I can aim to specific buyers).
                            I too, when shopping the web, like to see prices listed but I like that for obvious selfish reasons.  As a buyer, my questions are immediately and anonymously answered whether shopping, comparing or just learning.   That said, I understand that this works for me but not necessarily for the seller, as I often walk away without contacting the seller, or worse, without buying.
                            We dealers deal.  Some days  may see us proposing items at tiny margins above our cost and while doubling up (for eg) on other days.   The reality of our daily / weekly 'needs' may dictate how we feel about pricing an object on a given day, over and above the 'regular' pricing that our purchase price dictates.  It's a simple fact of life and buyers could understand that we forego that opportunity if we list our prices outright.    Same goes for an item that we may have had in stock for long and wish to move along on a given day.
                            Dealers also wish to build a client list (or email list, as applies on the web).  Inquiries allow us to add to email lists while shoppers that look and pass on do not.
                            Simply said, without writing a 3 page post, not listing prices gives us an opportunity to be engaged in the game, rather than just standing by with fingers crossed.  
                            Hoping this sheds a bit of light, with Warmest Regards to all!
                            Marc
                             
                             

                            --- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com, "johnhf1947" <johnhfalkner@ ...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Bon Soir,
                            >
                            > Is it not blindingly obvious that to show an item without a price is an attempt to
                            > create a dialogue? In the old days of walk in galleries (remember them?) the
                            > proprietor and prospective buyer could size each other up a long time before
                            > pleasantries were exchanged. As a youth I had great pleasure in annoying self
                            > important London gallery owners by wearing wrecked shoes - its the shoes they
                            > looked at first -picking up a highly priced object , asking one or two pre rehearsed
                            > erudite questions and then asking if they had anything better.
                            >
                            > I must also take issue with Steve Price's statement that we do not buy 'live horses' -
                            > obviously a metaphor for animals - on ebay. I will not be the only member of the
                            > group who, in the search for African goodies, who has bought some real turkeys.
                            >
                            > Regards ( I know we do not know each other personally, but we unintentional poultry
                            > buyers are a genial lot)
                            >
                            > John F
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com, "Steve Price" sprice@ wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hi Armin
                            > >
                            > > "And ( maybe I`m wrong ) which serious horse lover will buy a
                            > > valuable horse only from a picture that he has seen in the internet?"
                            > >
                            > > You're probably right. I just checked eBay, and there isn't even one
                            > > live horse for sale.
                            > >
                            > > I usually close with "regards", but we don't know each other
                            > > personally.
                            > >
                            > > Steve Price
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com, "toguna2002" <toguna2002@>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Hi Doug, Steve et al:
                            > > > Sometimes it depends on the manner how someone asks for a price. An
                            > > > email sent out of the anonymity of the internet written like "how
                            > > > much this" – with an address like "bomber@" and signed
                            > > > "B.R."… I think this is not the nicest way to make inquiries and
                            > > > communication in general.
                            > > > Then, if the dealer gives the informations by email (and maybe the
                            > > > price is out of your reach ) how many of the "prospective buyers"
                            > > > have the courage to answer – at least with a "thank you"?!
                            > > > That's my "internet experience" . Therefore I understand other
                            > > dealers
                            > > > who likewise only give informations about prices by email if they
                            > > know
                            > > > the clients personally.
                            > > > And ( maybe I`m wrong ) which serious horse lover will buy a
                            > > valuable
                            > > > horse only from a picture that he has seen in the internet?
                            > > >
                            > > > Sincerely,
                            > > > Armin Bies
                            > > > www.galerie- orisha.de
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >

                          • victor cinti
                            Good day! My post seems to have given a few something to discuss. It was interesting to see some different perspectives although most I had expected. I am
                            Message 13 of 13 , Aug 8, 2008
                            View Source
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Good day!

                              My post seems to have given a few something to discuss.

                              It was interesting to see some different perspectives although most I had expected.

                              I am still a bit confused as to why 90% of my requests go unanswered.

                              I have had to deal with gallery owners for most of my life (visiting them, selling through them and buying from them). I find a large majority to be strange business people with little or no people skills.

                              I have been made to feel unwelcome as a visitor, unworthy as an artist and a walking dollar sign as a costumer.

                              This is the original request that prompted my questions to the group:

                              After viewing your online gallery I have found two items in your recent acquisitions section that I find quite interesting. I hope that they are still available and that you can provide me with pricing and perhaps some provenance.

                              I freely admit that the majority of my emails are rather direct- some may say curt. This one, I thought, was rather nice.

                              There was some mention of dealers not knowing who send the request(s).

                              I don't hide my name and googling has become a past time for many people.

                              Victor Cinti




                              --- On Fri, 8/8/08, M.E.F. <mfliegelmann@...> wrote:

                              > From: M.E.F. <mfliegelmann@...>
                              > Subject: Re: Fw: [African_Arts] price upon request
                              > To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                              > Received: Friday, August 8, 2008, 1:49 AM
                              > Thanks Steve and John for being so witty! It makes a change.
                              > Good reading first thing in the morning, coffee mug by my
                              > side.
                              >  
                              > I am going to be (a lot less witty) (and a lot  more)
                              > provocative if not my usual down right tactless self and ask
                              > if the person who asked for prices might not have annoyed
                              > the seller in some way? After all, he wants to sell and
                              > would not want to alienate potential buyers. Though not a
                              > dealer in any way myself, I want us to consider what a
                              > difficult business this is and how hard it is to actually
                              > make a living. I know one or two young man and women who
                              > indulge their love for this form of art and hope to actually
                              > be able to live off it and just a very few who made a name
                              > for themselves a long time ago, actually do. I sense a bit
                              > of discomfort even with those.
                              >  
                              > Think about it and lets be kind to the people who supply
                              > our habit..Margalit
                              >
                              > --- On Thu, 8/7/08, johnhf1947
                              > <johnhfalkner@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: johnhf1947 <johnhfalkner@...>
                              > Subject: Re: Fw: [African_Arts] price upon request
                              > To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 11:33 PM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Bon Soir,
                              >
                              > Is it not blindingly obvious that to show an item without a
                              > price is an attempt to
                              > create a dialogue? In the old days of walk in galleries
                              > (remember them?) the
                              > proprietor and prospective buyer could size each other up a
                              > long time before
                              > pleasantries were exchanged. As a youth I had great
                              > pleasure in annoying self
                              > important London gallery owners by wearing wrecked shoes -
                              > its the shoes they
                              > looked at first -picking up a highly priced object , asking
                              > one or two pre rehearsed
                              > erudite questions and then asking if they had anything
                              > better.
                              >
                              > I must also take issue with Steve Price's statement
                              > that we do not buy 'live horses' -
                              > obviously a metaphor for animals - on ebay. I will not be
                              > the only member of the
                              > group who, in the search for African goodies, who has
                              > bought some real turkeys.
                              >
                              > Regards ( I know we do not know each other personally, but
                              > we unintentional poultry
                              > buyers are a genial lot)
                              >
                              > John F
                              >
                              > --- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com, "Steve
                              > Price" <sprice@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hi Armin
                              > >
                              > > "And ( maybe I`m wrong ) which serious horse
                              > lover will buy a
                              > > valuable horse only from a picture that he has seen in
                              > the internet?"
                              > >
                              > > You're probably right. I just checked eBay, and
                              > there isn't even one
                              > > live horse for sale.
                              > >
                              > > I usually close with "regards", but we
                              > don't know each other
                              > > personally.
                              > >
                              > > Steve Price
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com,
                              > "toguna2002" <toguna2002@ >
                              > > wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Hi Doug, Steve et al:
                              > > > Sometimes it depends on the manner how someone
                              > asks for a price. An
                              > > > email sent out of the anonymity of the internet
                              > written like "how
                              > > > much this" – with an address like
                              > "bomber@" and signed
                              > > > "B.R."… I think this is not the
                              > nicest way to make inquiries and
                              > > > communication in general.
                              > > > Then, if the dealer gives the informations by
                              > email (and maybe the
                              > > > price is out of your reach ) how many of the
                              > "prospective buyers"
                              > > > have the courage to answer – at least with a
                              > "thank you"?!
                              > > > That's my "internet experience" .
                              > Therefore I understand other
                              > > dealers
                              > > > who likewise only give informations about prices
                              > by email if they
                              > > know
                              > > > the clients personally.
                              > > > And ( maybe I`m wrong ) which serious horse lover
                              > will buy a
                              > > valuable
                              > > > horse only from a picture that he has seen in the
                              > internet?
                              > > >
                              > > > Sincerely,
                              > > > Armin Bies
                              > > > www.galerie- orisha.de
                              > > >
                              > >


                              __________________________________________________________________
                              Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.