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Re: [African_Arts] heddle pulley? Origin?

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  • Veronique Martelliere
    ... Rand African Art wrote: Thanks! In my copy it s on page 188/189 I have scanned the image of the Dogon heddle pulley from that
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 24, 2006
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      I found other illustrated Dogon pulleys  :
      > 2 in Goldet - Auction catalogue pp 176 & 196
      > 1 in the Dapper catalogue "Au fil de la parole" - page 164
      > also in the Tribal Art Magazine number 15 p 70-83




      Rand African Art <rand@...> wrote:
      Thanks! In my copy it's on page 188/189
      I have scanned the image of the Dogon heddle pulley from that book and placed it in the folder with Karen's other images, linked below.
       
      I would say that I agree with the Dogon attribution as well, although my first thoughts from looking at the head were different, but I'm still looking into that.
       
      The National Museum of African Art has a great search system, you can search objects in the collection by object or by function or classification etc. They have a nice selection of heddle pulleys with a little bit of information.
       
       
      RAND
      William Klebous <klebous@yahoo. com.au> wrote:
      there is a dogon heddle pulley on page 169
      of African Art in American Collections
      (Robbins and Nooter)

      --- LRubinstein@ post.harvard. edu wrote:

      >
      >
      >
      > Karen:
      >
      > I would say that the object does indeed look like a
      > heddle pulley without
      > the spool-holding cross bar.
      >
      > The figure atop the piece looks Dogon --
      > particularly the characteristic
      > arrow-shaped nose, although I cannot immediately
      > locate any examples of heddle
      > pulleys from among the Dogon. However, if you
      > search among the sources on
      > Dogon and/or Malian material culture, perhaps you
      > will find some related
      > examples. Some good general sources on Dogon
      > material culture with which to begin
      > include Jean Laude's African Art of the Dogon and
      > Pascal James Imperato's
      > Dogon Cliff Dwellers: Art of Mali's Mountain
      > Peoples (Leonard Kahan Gallery) as
      > well as Kate Ezra's Art of the Dogon. If I come
      > across specifically related
      > pulleys, I will post them.
      >
      > Good Luck, and enjoy! Lee
      >
      >
      >


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    • John Nash
      Karen, I think you already have your answer, but just to add one more reference... Tribal Arts vol 4, number 2 (autumn 1997) has a cover article on heddle
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 25, 2006
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        Karen, I think you already have your answer, but just
        to add one more reference...
        Tribal Arts vol 4, number 2 (autumn 1997) has a cover
        article on heddle pulleys with many photos including
        some Dogon.
        By the way, you didn't say, where does your pulley
        come from? (I mean now, not originally....)

        John

        --- Karen <karen_jnssns@...> wrote:

        > As an assignment for my university study in Library
        > and Information
        > Science, I have to find as much information as
        > possible about a
        > specific african sculpture (photograph "Heddle
        > pulley - Karen"). I am
        > not an expert at all in this area, so I hope someone
        > in this group can
        > help me.
        >
        > Searching the web led me to the conclusion that the
        > sculpture is a
        > heddle pulley.
        >
        > Can anyone confirm this?
        >
        > Furthermore, I would like to receive some comments
        > about the origin of
        > the sculpture.
        >
        > Thanks in advance!
        > Karen
        >
        > Link to photos:
        >
        http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/browse/7745?b=1&m=t
        >
        >
      • Karen
        Thank you very much for the help: it is much appreciated! However a new question came up concerning the origin: a fellow student of mine heard from a collector
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 26, 2006
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          Thank you very much for the help: it is much appreciated!
          However a new question came up concerning the origin: a fellow student
          of mine heard from a collector the sculpture can be related to the
          Senufo tribe.
          Some research learned me that both Dogon and Senufo are from the Mali
          region, so I can imagine there could be some cross-over.
          Any opinion?

          Best regards,
          Karen

          PS: the sculpture now belongs to my university professor.
        • Karen
          Thank you all for the help so far: it is much appreciated! However one more question came up about its origin: a fellow student of mine talked to a collector
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 26, 2006
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            Thank you all for the help so far: it is much appreciated!
            However one more question came up about its origin: a fellow student
            of mine talked to a collector who told her the sculpture is related to
            the Senufo-tribe.
            Now, some searching learned me that both the Dogon and the Senufo are
            from the Mali region. So I can imagine that there is some cross-over.
            I would like to here your opinions? The arrow-shaped nose was
            mentioned and indeed I did not find any correlation with the Senufo.
            Is this correct? Does this feature suffice to rule out the Senufo?

            Best regards,
            Karen

            PS: the sculpture now belongs to my professor.
          • LRubinstein@post.harvard.edu
            Karen: It is always meaningful and worthwhile to explore forms from neighboring and often related groups when familiarizing yourself with the general body of
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 26, 2006
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              Karen:
               
              It is always meaningful and worthwhile to explore forms from neighboring and often related groups when familiarizing yourself with the general body of work of a particular cultural group.  Given the complex histories of contact, migration and displacement that characterize the evolution of most African societies and the influence of these historical elements on the development of styles, I encourage you to look and see whether there are discernible elements suggestive of such influence in the examples you come across as you explore.  Personally, I think you will find an exploration of more northerly Malian and Burkinabe cultures than the Senufo -- Mossi and Bamana, for example -- for regional resonances more fruitful, although the reasons that these similarities may appear are rooted in quite distinct historical relationships between the Dogon and the Mossi and between the Dogon and the Bamana.  (Is that sufficiently vague?) 
               
              Too, it is fascinating to explore regional styles within a culture;  failing to explore the diversity among Dogon styles, you will likely overlook characteristics which appear in some regions and not (or less apparently or frequently so) in other regions.  The artistic production of the Dogon comprises a significant diversity of regional traditions and styles, as best illustrated in Helene Leloup's monumental (on so many levels) Dogon Statuary.  More specifically, an additional characteristic displayed by your figure is the lack of differentiation in the representation of the arms, executed in your figure as a continuous element across the midsection of the figure.  Although the general characteristics of the overall figures are quite different, this unified mass representing the arms appears -- albeit in varying degrees --  in two Dogon figures in the currently accessible catalogue of works from the Brill Collection being offered by Sotheby's in November (See Rand's Message #1616) -- Lots 5 & 8. 
               
              LOT 5

              A FINE DOGON HERMAPHRODITE TORSO

              8,000—12,000 USD
              http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159283276
               
               
              Perhaps others can share their insights on the prevalence of this feature either in Dogon works or works from other groups in the region to help determine to waht extent this feature -- like the arrow-shaped nose -- can be explored toward the determination of attribution in such figures and objects which contains such figural anthropomorphic representations as elements.
               
              There are many more messages applicable to the general topic of Dogon carved wooden figures and other objects in past postings.  Among them are:  481  1192, 1473 ...  481 includes a link to images from the Imperato book previously suggested of anthropomorphic forms in stone that also display this characteristic.
               
              Lee
            • William Klebous
              Also relevant to this discussion of cross cultural influence on the Dogon is this pair of figures from the same auction, described as Dogon with possible
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 26, 2006
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                Also relevant to this discussion of cross
                cultural influence on the Dogon is this
                pair of figures from the same auction,
                described as Dogon with possible Bamana
                and Mossi influence...

                http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159290275

                I can see the Bamana angle and I can see the
                Mossi angle, but it's a little hard for me
                to see what's Dogon about this pair. Yet there
                it is, an apparently known Dogon sub-style.

                --- LRubinstein@... wrote:

                > Karen:
                >
                > It is always meaningful and worthwhile to explore
                > forms from neighboring and
                > often related groups when familiarizing yourself
                > with the general body of
                > work of a particular cultural group. Given the
                > complex histories of contact,
                > migration and displacement that characterize the
                > evolution of most African
                > societies and the influence of these historical
                > elements on the development of
                > styles, I encourage you to look and see whether
                > there are discernible elements
                > suggestive of such influence in the examples you
                > come across as you explore.
                > Personally, I think you will find an exploration of
                > more northerly Malian
                > and Burkinabe cultures than the Senufo -- Mossi and
                > Bamana, for example -- for
                > regional resonances more fruitful, although the
                > reasons that these
                > similarities may appear are rooted in quite distinct
                > historical relationships between
                > the Dogon and the Mossi and between the Dogon and
                > the Bamana. (Is that
                > sufficiently vague?)
                >
                > Too, it is fascinating to explore regional styles
                > within a culture; failing
                > to explore the diversity among Dogon styles, you
                > will likely overlook
                > characteristics which appear in some regions and
                > not (or less apparently or
                > frequently so) in other regions. The artistic
                > production of the Dogon comprises a
                > significant diversity of regional traditions and
                > styles, as best illustrated
                > in Helene Leloup's monumental (on so many levels)
                > Dogon Statuary. More
                > specifically, an additional characteristic displayed
                > by your figure is the lack of
                > differentiation in the representation of the arms,
                > executed in your figure
                > as a continuous element across the midsection of the
                > figure. Although the
                > general characteristics of the overall figures are
                > quite different, this unified
                > mass representing the arms appears -- albeit in
                > varying degrees -- in two
                > Dogon figures in the currently accessible catalogue
                > of works from the Brill
                > Collection being offered by Sotheby's in November
                > (See Rand's Message #_1616_
                >
                (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/message/1616)
                > ) -- Lots 5 & 8.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                (javascript:bigPictureWindowJsp('/jsps/live/lot/LotBigPic.jsp?LOT_ID=159283276&LG=/images/products/2006/N08287/159283276_N08287-5-1.jpg&SM=/images/
                >
                products/2006/N08287/159283276-smaller-N08287-5-1.jpg&CAP=&liveFlag=Y&live_lot
                >
                _id=5&sale_number=N08287','BigPic','height=600,width=615,resizable=yes,scrollb
                > ars,status')) LOT 5
                >
                > A FINE DOGON HERMAPHRODITE TORSO
                >
                > 8,000—12,000 USD
                >
                _http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159283276_
                >
                >
                (http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159283276)
                >
                >
                >
                >
                (javascript:bigPictureWindowJsp('/jsps/live/lot/LotBigPic.jsp?LOT_ID=159278163&LG=/images/products/2006/N08287/159278163_N08287-8-1.jpg&SM=/images/
                >
                products/2006/N08287/159278163-smaller-N08287-8-1.jpg&CAP=&liveFlag=Y&live_lot
                >
                _id=8&sale_number=N08287','BigPic','height=600,width=615,resizable=yes,scrollb
                > ars,status'))
                >
                _http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159278163_
                >
                >
                (http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159278163)
                > LOT 8
                >
                > A DOGON MALE FIGURE
                >
                > 3,000—5,000 USD
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Perhaps others can share their insights on the
                > prevalence of this feature
                > either in Dogon works or works from other groups in
                > the region to help determine
                > to waht extent this feature -- like the
                > arrow-shaped nose -- can be explored
                > toward the determination of attribution in such
                > figures and objects which
                > contains such figural anthropomorphic
                > representations as elements.
                >
                > There are many more messages applicable to the
                > general topic of Dogon carved
                > wooden figures and other objects in past postings.
                > Among them are: _481_
                >
                (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/message/481)
                > _1192_
                >
                (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/message/1192)
                > , _1473_
                >
                (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/message/1473)
                > ... 481 includes a link to images from
                > the Imperato book previously suggested of
                > anthropomorphic forms in stone that
                > also display this characteristic.
                >
                > Lee
                >




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              • Don Sanders
                hello ,i used to be a member of this group but i gotten out of african art these days ,i have a lots of items im trying to sell if you or anyone you know that
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 27, 2006
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                  hello ,i used to be a member of this group but i gotten out of african art
                  these days ,i have a lots of items im trying to sell if you or anyone you
                  know that may be interted,, i brought them from african runners over the
                  years, i know all my items arent collectors thing but a great many are and i
                  would be more than fair on the cost,i could send anyone pictures and if
                  anyone seen anything they wanted i would be way fair on making sure you get
                  the item before you paid. If you want let me know ,,

                  thanks Don Sanders (ds7155@...)


                  >From: "Karen" <karen_jnssns@...>
                  >Reply-To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: [African_Arts] Re: heddle pulley? Origin?
                  >Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 07:09:37 -0000
                  >
                  >Thank you very much for the help: it is much appreciated!
                  >However a new question came up concerning the origin: a fellow student
                  >of mine heard from a collector the sculpture can be related to the
                  >Senufo tribe.
                  >Some research learned me that both Dogon and Senufo are from the Mali
                  >region, so I can imagine there could be some cross-over.
                  >Any opinion?
                  >
                  >Best regards,
                  >Karen
                  >
                  >PS: the sculpture now belongs to my university professor.
                  >
                  >
                  >

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                • William Klebous
                  Continuing with the theme of Dogon stylistic variations, I ve posted some pics of a favorite object of mine, an ususually naturalistic Dogon rabbit hunter
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 27, 2006
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                    Continuing with the theme of Dogon stylistic
                    variations, I've posted some pics of a favorite
                    object of mine, an ususually naturalistic Dogon
                    rabbit hunter mask. I can't quite recall why
                    I'm terming it a rabbit hunter mask, but probably
                    because of its obvious relation to the more well
                    known geometric/cubistic Dogon rabbit masks and
                    because I read somewhere that the rabbit hunter
                    is a revered archetype in Dogon culture...

                    http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/browse/461e?c=

                    The only Dogon mask I know of with a comparable
                    degree of naturalism is this one from Barakat
                    (I have no idea how they came up with the rather
                    remarkable age they claim for their mask: 1600-
                    1800 AD)

                    http://www.barakatgallery.com/store/index.cfm/FuseAction/ItemDetails/UserID/0/CFID/1539467/CFTOKEN/26191720/CategoryID/30/SubCategoryID/783/ItemID/7777.htm

                    My mask was acquired at an Albany, NY auction in
                    1987. It was stated that it was part of a collection
                    put together by a doctor in the 1960's and early
                    1970's. It does seem to show signs of significant
                    age and indigenous use (although nothing like
                    hundreds of years worth).

                    So my questions are pretty obvious. Does anyone
                    have any info on this more naturalistic style
                    of Dogon mask? Is it unusual for a Dogon mask
                    to be kept and re-used indigenously for years
                    (I think I've read that many Dogon masks are
                    discarded after a relatively short time)? Do
                    the forehead markings and possible longer term
                    use perhaps indicate Bamana or other influence?

                    thanks in advance, WK


                    --- LRubinstein@... wrote:

                    > Karen:
                    >
                    > It is always meaningful and worthwhile to explore
                    > forms from neighboring and
                    > often related groups when familiarizing yourself
                    > with the general body of
                    > work of a particular cultural group. Given the
                    > complex histories of contact,
                    > migration and displacement that characterize the
                    > evolution of most African
                    > societies and the influence of these historical
                    > elements on the development of
                    > styles, I encourage you to look and see whether
                    > there are discernible elements
                    > suggestive of such influence in the examples you
                    > come across as you explore.
                    > Personally, I think you will find an exploration of
                    > more northerly Malian
                    > and Burkinabe cultures than the Senufo -- Mossi and
                    > Bamana, for example -- for
                    > regional resonances more fruitful, although the
                    > reasons that these
                    > similarities may appear are rooted in quite distinct
                    > historical relationships between
                    > the Dogon and the Mossi and between the Dogon and
                    > the Bamana. (Is that
                    > sufficiently vague?)
                    >
                    > Too, it is fascinating to explore regional styles
                    > within a culture; failing
                    > to explore the diversity among Dogon styles, you
                    > will likely overlook
                    > characteristics which appear in some regions and
                    > not (or less apparently or
                    > frequently so) in other regions. The artistic
                    > production of the Dogon comprises a
                    > significant diversity of regional traditions and
                    > styles, as best illustrated
                    > in Helene Leloup's monumental (on so many levels)
                    > Dogon Statuary. More
                    > specifically, an additional characteristic displayed
                    > by your figure is the lack of
                    > differentiation in the representation of the arms,
                    > executed in your figure
                    > as a continuous element across the midsection of the
                    > figure. Although the
                    > general characteristics of the overall figures are
                    > quite different, this unified
                    > mass representing the arms appears -- albeit in
                    > varying degrees -- in two
                    > Dogon figures in the currently accessible catalogue
                    > of works from the Brill
                    > Collection being offered by Sotheby's in November
                    > (See Rand's Message #_1616_
                    >
                    (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/message/1616)
                    > ) -- Lots 5 & 8.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    (javascript:bigPictureWindowJsp('/jsps/live/lot/LotBigPic.jsp?LOT_ID=159283276&LG=/images/products/2006/N08287/159283276_N08287-5-1.jpg&SM=/images/
                    >
                    products/2006/N08287/159283276-smaller-N08287-5-1.jpg&CAP=&liveFlag=Y&live_lot
                    >
                    _id=5&sale_number=N08287','BigPic','height=600,width=615,resizable=yes,scrollb
                    > ars,status')) LOT 5
                    >
                    > A FINE DOGON HERMAPHRODITE TORSO
                    >
                    > 8,000—12,000 USD
                    >
                    _http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159283276_
                    >
                    >
                    (http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159283276)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    (javascript:bigPictureWindowJsp('/jsps/live/lot/LotBigPic.jsp?LOT_ID=159278163&LG=/images/products/2006/N08287/159278163_N08287-8-1.jpg&SM=/images/
                    >
                    products/2006/N08287/159278163-smaller-N08287-8-1.jpg&CAP=&liveFlag=Y&live_lot
                    >
                    _id=8&sale_number=N08287','BigPic','height=600,width=615,resizable=yes,scrollb
                    > ars,status'))
                    >
                    _http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159278163_
                    >
                    >
                    (http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159278163)
                    > LOT 8
                    >
                    > A DOGON MALE FIGURE
                    >
                    > 3,000—5,000 USD
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Perhaps others can share their insights on the
                    > prevalence of this feature
                    > either in Dogon works or works from other groups in
                    > the region to help determine
                    > to waht extent this feature -- like the
                    > arrow-shaped nose -- can be explored
                    > toward the determination of attribution in such
                    > figures and objects which
                    > contains such figural anthropomorphic
                    > representations as elements.
                    >
                    > There are many more messages applicable to the
                    > general topic of Dogon carved
                    > wooden figures and other objects in past postings.
                    > Among them are: _481_
                    >
                    (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/message/481)
                    > _1192_
                    >
                    (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/message/1192)
                    > , _1473_
                    >
                    (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/message/1473)
                    > ... 481 includes a link to images from
                    > the Imperato book previously suggested of
                    > anthropomorphic forms in stone that
                    > also display this characteristic.
                    >
                    > Lee
                    >


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                  • William Klebous
                    I guess this one counts as a comparable, from Hamill, evaluated by a French dealer as dating from the early 20th century
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 27, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I guess this one counts as a comparable, from
                      Hamill, "evaluated by a French dealer as dating from
                      the early 20th century"

                      http://www.hamillgallery.com/DOGON/DogonMasks/DogonMask12.html

                      --- William Klebous <klebous@...> wrote:

                      > Continuing with the theme of Dogon stylistic
                      > variations, I've posted some pics of a favorite
                      > object of mine, an ususually naturalistic Dogon
                      > rabbit hunter mask. I can't quite recall why
                      > I'm terming it a rabbit hunter mask, but probably
                      > because of its obvious relation to the more well
                      > known geometric/cubistic Dogon rabbit masks and
                      > because I read somewhere that the rabbit hunter
                      > is a revered archetype in Dogon culture...
                      >
                      >
                      http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/browse/461e?c=
                      >
                      > The only Dogon mask I know of with a comparable
                      > degree of naturalism is this one from Barakat
                      > (I have no idea how they came up with the rather
                      > remarkable age they claim for their mask: 1600-
                      > 1800 AD)
                      >
                      >
                      http://www.barakatgallery.com/store/index.cfm/FuseAction/ItemDetails/UserID/0/CFID/1539467/CFTOKEN/26191720/CategoryID/30/SubCategoryID/783/ItemID/7777.htm
                      >
                      > My mask was acquired at an Albany, NY auction in
                      > 1987. It was stated that it was part of a
                      > collection
                      > put together by a doctor in the 1960's and early
                      > 1970's. It does seem to show signs of significant
                      > age and indigenous use (although nothing like
                      > hundreds of years worth).
                      >
                      > So my questions are pretty obvious. Does anyone
                      > have any info on this more naturalistic style
                      > of Dogon mask? Is it unusual for a Dogon mask
                      > to be kept and re-used indigenously for years
                      > (I think I've read that many Dogon masks are
                      > discarded after a relatively short time)? Do
                      > the forehead markings and possible longer term
                      > use perhaps indicate Bamana or other influence?
                      >
                      > thanks in advance, WK
                      >
                      >
                      > --- LRubinstein@... wrote:
                      >
                      > > Karen:
                      > >
                      > > It is always meaningful and worthwhile to explore
                      > > forms from neighboring and
                      > > often related groups when familiarizing yourself
                      > > with the general body of
                      > > work of a particular cultural group. Given the
                      > > complex histories of contact,
                      > > migration and displacement that characterize the
                      > > evolution of most African
                      > > societies and the influence of these historical
                      > > elements on the development of
                      > > styles, I encourage you to look and see whether
                      > > there are discernible elements
                      > > suggestive of such influence in the examples you
                      > > come across as you explore.
                      > > Personally, I think you will find an exploration
                      > of
                      > > more northerly Malian
                      > > and Burkinabe cultures than the Senufo -- Mossi
                      > and
                      > > Bamana, for example -- for
                      > > regional resonances more fruitful, although the
                      > > reasons that these
                      > > similarities may appear are rooted in quite
                      > distinct
                      > > historical relationships between
                      > > the Dogon and the Mossi and between the Dogon and
                      > > the Bamana. (Is that
                      > > sufficiently vague?)
                      > >
                      > > Too, it is fascinating to explore regional styles
                      > > within a culture; failing
                      > > to explore the diversity among Dogon styles, you
                      > > will likely overlook
                      > > characteristics which appear in some regions and
                      > > not (or less apparently or
                      > > frequently so) in other regions. The artistic
                      > > production of the Dogon comprises a
                      > > significant diversity of regional traditions and
                      > > styles, as best illustrated
                      > > in Helene Leloup's monumental (on so many levels)
                      > > Dogon Statuary. More
                      > > specifically, an additional characteristic
                      > displayed
                      > > by your figure is the lack of
                      > > differentiation in the representation of the arms,
                      > > executed in your figure
                      > > as a continuous element across the midsection of
                      > the
                      > > figure. Although the
                      > > general characteristics of the overall figures are
                      > > quite different, this unified
                      > > mass representing the arms appears -- albeit in
                      > > varying degrees -- in two
                      > > Dogon figures in the currently accessible
                      > catalogue
                      > > of works from the Brill
                      > > Collection being offered by Sotheby's in November
                      > > (See Rand's Message #_1616_
                      > >
                      >
                      (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/message/1616)
                      > > ) -- Lots 5 & 8.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      (javascript:bigPictureWindowJsp('/jsps/live/lot/LotBigPic.jsp?LOT_ID=159283276&LG=/images/products/2006/N08287/159283276_N08287-5-1.jpg&SM=/images/
                      > >
                      >
                      products/2006/N08287/159283276-smaller-N08287-5-1.jpg&CAP=&liveFlag=Y&live_lot
                      > >
                      >
                      _id=5&sale_number=N08287','BigPic','height=600,width=615,resizable=yes,scrollb
                      > > ars,status')) LOT 5
                      > >
                      > > A FINE DOGON HERMAPHRODITE TORSO
                      > >
                      > > 8,000—12,000 USD
                      > >
                      >
                      _http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159283276_
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      (http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159283276)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      (javascript:bigPictureWindowJsp('/jsps/live/lot/LotBigPic.jsp?LOT_ID=159278163&LG=/images/products/2006/N08287/159278163_N08287-8-1.jpg&SM=/images/
                      > >
                      >
                      products/2006/N08287/159278163-smaller-N08287-8-1.jpg&CAP=&liveFlag=Y&live_lot
                      > >
                      >
                      _id=8&sale_number=N08287','BigPic','height=600,width=615,resizable=yes,scrollb
                      > > ars,status'))
                      > >
                      >
                      _http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159278163_
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      (http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159278163)
                      > > LOT 8
                      > >
                      > > A DOGON MALE FIGURE
                      > >
                      > > 3,000—5,000 USD
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Perhaps others can share their insights on the
                      > > prevalence of this feature
                      > > either in Dogon works or works from other groups
                      > in
                      > > the region to help determine
                      > > to waht extent this feature -- like the
                      > > arrow-shaped nose -- can be explored
                      > > toward the determination of attribution in such
                      > > figures and objects which
                      > > contains such figural anthropomorphic
                      > > representations as elements.
                      > >
                      > > There are many more messages applicable to the
                      > > general topic of Dogon carved
                      > > wooden figures and other objects in past postings.
                      >
                      > > Among them are: _481_
                      > >
                      >
                      (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/message/481)
                      > > _1192_
                      > >
                      >
                      (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/message/1192)
                      > > , _1473_
                      > >
                      >
                      (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/message/1473)
                      > > ... 481 includes a link to images from
                      > > the Imperato book previously suggested of
                      > > anthropomorphic forms in stone that
                      > > also display this characteristic.
                      > >
                      > > Lee
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > Send instant messages to your online friends
                      > http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
                      >


                      Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
                    • Don Sanders
                      Hi, if anyone e-mailed about the african art I mention below I may have not received the message because I have a new email address, my new one is
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 31, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi, if anyone e-mailed about the african art I mention below I may have not received the message because I have a new email address, my new one is da7155@...
                        Don


                        >From: "Don Sanders" <ds7155@...>
                        >Reply-To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                        >To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: RE: [African_Arts] Re: heddle pulley? Origin?
                        >Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 02:11:40 -0500
                        >
                        >hello ,i used to be a member of this group but i gotten out of african art
                        >these days ,i have a lots of items im trying to sell if you or anyone you
                        >know that may be interted,, i brought them from african runners over the
                        >years, i know all my items arent collectors thing but a great many are and
                        >i
                        >would be more than fair on the cost,i could send anyone pictures and if
                        >anyone seen anything they wanted i would be way fair on making sure you get
                        >the item before you paid. If you want let me know ,,
                        >
                        >thanks Don Sanders (ds7155@...)
                        >
                        >
                        > >From: "Karen" <karen_jnssns@...>
                        > >Reply-To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                        > >To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                        > >Subject: [African_Arts] Re: heddle pulley? Origin?
                        > >Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 07:09:37 -0000
                        > >
                        > >Thank you very much for the help: it is much appreciated!
                        > >However a new question came up concerning the origin: a fellow student
                        > >of mine heard from a collector the sculpture can be related to the
                        > >Senufo tribe.
                        > >Some research learned me that both Dogon and Senufo are from the Mali
                        > >region, so I can imagine there could be some cross-over.
                        > >Any opinion?
                        > >
                        > >Best regards,
                        > >Karen
                        > >
                        > >PS: the sculpture now belongs to my university professor.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >_________________________________________________________________
                        >Get today's hot entertainment gossip
                        >http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip?icid=T002MSN03A07001
                        >
                        >

                        _________________________________________________________________
                        Add a Yahoo! contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a free
                        trip!
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                      • RAND
                        William, My knowledge and resources are very limited when it comes to Dogon art, I think I have only 1 or 2 books that are dedicated to Dogon art and many of
                        Message 11 of 18 , Nov 24, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          William,
                           
                          My knowledge and resources are very limited when it comes to Dogon art, I think I have only 1 or 2 books that are dedicated to Dogon art and many of my "general" books are on loan at the moment.
                           
                          The SIRIS database (Smithsonian Institute Research Information System) contains the Eliot Elisofon Field photographs and the database is searchable in many ways.
                           
                          Below is a link to an image that contains several types of Dogon masks, included in the group at the right is a typical Dogon "rabbit" mask" like you mention.
                           
                           
                          As far as the "more natural" masks of the Dogon, I don't have a lot to go on. A large degree of the Dogon masks we are used to seeing are very abstract and geometric in nature. The example you provided from the Hamill Gallery was evaluated by someone pretty knowledgeable on Dogon art. In the book "Dogon Cliff Dwellers" on pages 36 and 38 there are some more realistic Dogon masks presented. I don't have my other Dogon books at the house, and really can't access my bookshelves at the moment to dig for more, but I'm sure there are lots more out there.
                           
                          I've also read that Dogon masks are discarded after short periods of time, I don't know how much I believe that but I really haven't read a lot to know one way or another.
                           
                          Your mask, in my opinion, possesses Dogon and Bamaba stylistic qualities. Bamana masks tend to have geometric designs or markings carved on them like your mask has, and from my experiences the geometric markings on Dogon masks are usually painted on or are larger and carved in relief.
                           
                          Dogon art is an area that I am sure there are lots of people that have more knowledge and experience in than I do, I've only scratched the surface of it and it's a wide and broad area. There are a lot of publications out there, most of which I don't have.
                           
                          As soon as I get my home office organized again to have access to the books I do have, and when I get some of my books back, I'll keep an eye out for information and images of more realistic Dogon masks and get back to you.
                           
                          Cheers!
                          RAND

                          William Klebous <klebous@...> wrote:
                          Continuing with the theme of Dogon stylistic
                          variations, I've posted some pics of a favorite
                          object of mine, an ususually naturalistic Dogon
                          rabbit hunter mask. I can't quite recall why
                          I'm terming it a rabbit hunter mask, but probably
                          because of its obvious relation to the more well
                          known geometric/cubistic Dogon rabbit masks and
                          because I read somewhere that the rabbit hunter
                          is a revered archetype in Dogon culture...

                          http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/African_ Arts/photos/ browse/461e? c=

                          The only Dogon mask I know of with a comparable
                          degree of naturalism is this one from Barakat
                          (I have no idea how they came up with the rather
                          remarkable age they claim for their mask: 1600-
                          1800 AD)

                          http://www.barakatg allery.com/ store/index. cfm/FuseAction/ ItemDetails/ UserID/0/ CFID/1539467/ CFTOKEN/26191720 /CategoryID/ 30/SubCategoryID /783/ItemID/ 7777.htm

                          My mask was acquired at an Albany, NY auction in
                          1987. It was stated that it was part of a collection
                          put together by a doctor in the 1960's and early
                          1970's. It does seem to show signs of significant
                          age and indigenous use (although nothing like
                          hundreds of years worth).

                          So my questions are pretty obvious. Does anyone
                          have any info on this more naturalistic style
                          of Dogon mask? Is it unusual for a Dogon mask
                          to be kept and re-used indigenously for years
                          (I think I've read that many Dogon masks are
                          discarded after a relatively short time)? Do
                          the forehead markings and possible longer term
                          use perhaps indicate Bamana or other influence?

                          thanks in advance, WK


                          --- LRubinstein@ post.harvard. edu wrote:

                          > Karen:
                          >
                          > It is always meaningful and worthwhile to explore
                          > forms from neighboring and
                          > often related groups when familiarizing yourself
                          > with the general body of
                          > work of a particular cultural group. Given the
                          > complex histories of contact,
                          > migration and displacement that characterize the
                          > evolution of most African
                          > societies and the influence of these historical
                          > elements on the development of
                          > styles, I encourage you to look and see whether
                          > there are discernible elements
                          > suggestive of such influence in the examples you
                          > come across as you explore.
                          > Personally, I think you will find an exploration of
                          > more northerly Malian
                          > and Burkinabe cultures than the Senufo -- Mossi and
                          > Bamana, for example -- for
                          > regional resonances more fruitful, although the
                          > reasons that these
                          > similarities may appear are rooted in quite distinct
                          > historical relationships between
                          > the Dogon and the Mossi and between the Dogon and
                          > the Bamana. (Is that
                          > sufficiently vague?)
                          >
                          > Too, it is fascinating to explore regional styles
                          > within a culture; failing
                          > to explore the diversity among Dogon styles, you
                          > will likely overlook
                          > characteristics which appear in some regions and
                          > not (or less apparently or
                          > frequently so) in other regions. The artistic
                          > production of the Dogon comprises a
                          > significant diversity of regional traditions and
                          > styles, as best illustrated
                          > in Helene Leloup's monumental (on so many levels)
                          > Dogon Statuary. More
                          > specifically, an additional characteristic displayed
                          > by your figure is the lack of
                          > differentiation in the representation of the arms,
                          > executed in your figure
                          > as a continuous element across the midsection of the
                          > figure. Although the
                          > general characteristics of the overall figures are
                          > quite different, this unified
                          > mass representing the arms appears -- albeit in
                          > varying degrees -- in two
                          > Dogon figures in the currently accessible catalogue
                          > of works from the Brill
                          > Collection being offered by Sotheby's in November
                          > (See Rand's Message #_1616_
                          >
                          (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/African_ Arts/message/ 1616)
                          > ) -- Lots 5 & 8.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          (javascript: bigPictureWindow Jsp('/jsps/ live/lot/ LotBigPic. jsp?LOT_ID= 159283276& LG=/images/ products/ 2006/N08287/ 159283276_ N08287-5- 1.jpg&SM= /images/
                          >
                          products/2006/ N08287/159283276 -smaller- N08287-5- 1.jpg&CAP= &liveFlag= Y&live_lot
                          >
                          _id=5&sale_number= N08287',' BigPic',' height=600, width=615, resizable= yes,scrollb
                          > ars,status') ) LOT 5
                          >
                          > A FINE DOGON HERMAPHRODITE TORSO
                          >
                          > 8,000â&#8364; &#8221;12, 000 USD
                          >
                          _http://search. sothebys. com/jsps/ live/lot/ LotDetail. jsp?lot_id= 159283276_
                          >
                          >
                          (http://search. sothebys. com/jsps/ live/lot/ LotDetail. jsp?lot_id= 159283276)
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          (javascript: bigPictureWindow Jsp('/jsps/ live/lot/ LotBigPic. jsp?LOT_ID= 159278163& LG=/images/ products/ 2006/N08287/ 159278163_ N08287-8- 1.jpg&SM= /images/
                          >
                          products/2006/ N08287/159278163 -smaller- N08287-8- 1.jpg&CAP= &liveFlag= Y&live_lot
                          >
                          _id=8&sale_number= N08287',' BigPic',' height=600, width=615, resizable= yes,scrollb
                          > ars,status') )
                          >
                          _http://search. sothebys. com/jsps/ live/lot/ LotDetail. jsp?lot_id= 159278163_
                          >
                          >
                          (http://search. sothebys. com/jsps/ live/lot/ LotDetail. jsp?lot_id= 159278163)
                          > LOT 8
                          >
                          > A DOGON MALE FIGURE
                          >
                          > 3,000â&#8364; &#8221;5, 000 USD
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Perhaps others can share their insights on the
                          > prevalence of this feature
                          > either in Dogon works or works from other groups in
                          > the region to help determine
                          > to waht extent this feature -- like the
                          > arrow-shaped nose -- can be explored
                          > toward the determination of attribution in such
                          > figures and objects which
                          > contains such figural anthropomorphic
                          > representations as elements.
                          >
                          > There are many more messages applicable to the
                          > general topic of Dogon carved
                          > wooden figures and other objects in past postings.
                          > Among them are: _481_
                          >
                          (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/African_ Arts/message/ 481)
                          > _1192_
                          >
                          (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/African_ Arts/message/ 1192)
                          > , _1473_
                          >
                          (http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/African_ Arts/message/ 1473)
                          > ... 481 includes a link to images from
                          > the Imperato book previously suggested of
                          > anthropomorphic forms in stone that
                          > also display this characteristic.
                          >
                          > Lee
                          >

                          Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger .yahoo.com


                        • LRubinstein@post.harvard.edu
                          William: I don t recall or find any information suggesting that Dogon masks were traditionally used only briefly. In Dogon Cliff Dwellers (1978), Pascal James
                          Message 12 of 18 , Nov 24, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            William:

                            I don't recall or find any information suggesting that Dogon masks were
                            traditionally used only briefly. In Dogon Cliff Dwellers (1978),
                            Pascal James Imperato mentions in reference to the Sigui Festival --
                            danced at 60 year intervals -- that "At this time great masks are made,
                            other masks sculpted and the old masks discarded." (p. 42) In fact, I
                            believe that the current short dance life of Dogon masks may be
                            directly related to the extreme desirability of Dogon material culture
                            among visitors and collectors. So, I would imagine that many masks
                            which are created specifically for use in entertainment dances may
                            indeed be immediately made available for sale in order to satisfy both
                            tourist demand and economic need although Imperato indicated in 1978
                            that such commercial sale of masks was prohibited in 1969 by the
                            Ministry of Inforamtion and Tourism.) Barbara Dietz and Cornelia
                            Kleinitz (RMV-Leiden), writing about ritual practices in the Dogon
                            village of Songo [Sanga, Sangha -- where Griaule was based for much of
                            the research he conducted among the Dogon as well as the locale where
                            Imperato observed many of the dances he described] that such changes
                            and pressures resulted in the re-location of mask storage from the
                            caves near the village to individual homes: "The shelter Djemé
                            Togolo...was formerly used for the preparation and storage of masks.
                            Today the masks are stored at the mask dancers' houses, since with the
                            increase of tourism they were stolen from the rock shelter and sold to
                            tourists." (See http://www.rmv.nl/publicaties/10Songo/e/songo_eng.pdf)
                            <-Interesting article!

                            The termination, "hunter mask," does indeed coincide with the
                            terminology for traditional Dogon masks known as dannana. In
                            Imperato's account, he describes a specific perfomance -- as part of a
                            Dama ritual, I believe -- wherein the "hunter" dances with several
                            "rabbits":

                            "In the ethnic setting certain masks mime and act out stories in
                            addition to dancing. An example of this is the dannana mask (hunter)
                            which performs with the dyommo masks (rabbit). In this performance the
                            hunter engages in a mock hunt of several rabbit masks performing with
                            him. The hunter chases them and they in turn flee in all directions
                            from the stage and hide themselves in the crowd."

                            This may explain your association of the hunter with the rabbit,
                            although i do seem to come across a number of other uncited references
                            that mention the hunter and the rabbit together, presumably drawinf
                            upon this, or another, observed masquerade in which the rabbit(s) and
                            hunter are paired.

                            With regard to the naturalist style of this mask, I do see a number of
                            examples on current commercial sites but don't see any in this style
                            among the printed sources which I have perused, although I have yet to
                            access the 1938 Griaule work, Masques Dogons or the more recent work by
                            Barbara DeMott -- both of which would likely provide interesting and
                            relevant material. As usual, I'll keep an open eye. In the
                            meanwhile, the Dietz-Kleinitz article appears to offer a very
                            interesting read based on what I have read thus far... Lee


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: rand@...
                            To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:31:38 -0800 (PST)
                            Subject: Re: [African_Arts] Re: heddle pulley? Origin? (Dogon
                            variations)



                            William,
                             
                            My knowledge and resources are very limited when it comes to Dogon
                            art, I think I have only 1 or 2 books that are dedicated to Dogon art
                            and many of my "general" books are on loan at the moment.
                             
                            The SIRIS database (Smithsonian Institute Research Information System)
                            contains the Eliot Elisofon Field photographs and the database is
                            searchable in many ways.
                             
                            Below is a link to an image that contains several types of Dogon
                            masks, included in the group at the right is a typical Dogon "rabbit"
                            mask" like you mention.
                            http://sirismm.si.edu/eepa/eep/eepa_03574.jpg
                             
                            Eliot Elisofon Field photographs main page:
                            http://sirismm.si.edu/siris/eepatop.htm
                             
                            As far as the "more natural" masks of the Dogon, I don't have a lot to
                            go on. A large degree of the Dogon masks we are used to seeing are very
                            abstract and geometric in nature. The example you provided from the
                            Hamill Gallery was evaluated by someone pretty knowledgeable on Dogon
                            art. In the book "Dogon Cliff Dwellers" on pages 36 and 38 there are
                            some more realistic Dogon masks presented. I don't have my other Dogon
                            books at the house, and really can't access my bookshelves at the
                            moment to dig for more, but I'm sure there are lots more out there.
                             
                            I've also read that Dogon masks are discarded after short periods of
                            time, I don't know how much I believe that but I really haven't read a
                            lot to know one way or another.
                             
                            Your mask, in my opinion, possesses Dogon and Bamaba stylistic
                            qualities. Bamana masks tend to have geometric designs or markings
                            carved on them like your mask has, and from my experiences the
                            geometric markings on Dogon masks are usually painted on or are larger
                            and carved in relief.
                             
                            Dogon art is an area that I am sure there are lots of people that have
                            more knowledge and experience in than I do, I've only scratched the
                            surface of it and it's a wide and broad area. There are a lot of
                            publications out there, most of which I don't have.
                             
                            As soon as I get my home office organized again to have access to the
                            books I do have, and when I get some of my books back, I'll keep an eye
                            out for information and images of more realistic Dogon masks and get
                            back to you.
                             
                            Cheers!
                            RAND

                            William Klebous <klebous@...> wrote:
                            Continuing with the theme of Dogon stylistic
                            variations, I've po sted some pics of a favorite
                            object of mine, an ususually naturalistic Dogon
                            rabbit hunter mask. I can't quite recall why
                            I'm terming it a rabbit hunter mask, but probably
                            because of its obvious relation to the more well
                            known geometric/cubistic Dogon rabbit masks and
                            because I read somewhere that the rabbit hunter
                            is a revered archetype in Dogon culture...

                            http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/browse/461e?c=

                            The only Dogon mask I know of with a comparable
                            degree of naturalism is this one from Barakat
                            (I have no idea how they came up with the rather
                            remarkable age they claim for their mask: 1600-
                            1800 AD)

                            http://www.barakatgallery.com/store/index.cfm/FuseAction/ItemDetails/User
                            ID/0/CFID/1539467/CFTOKEN/26191720/CategoryID/30/SubCategoryID/783/ItemID
                            /7777.htm

                            My mask was acquired at an Albany, NY auction in
                            1987. It was stated that it was part of a collection
                            put together by a doctor in the 1960's and early
                            1970's. It does seem to show signs of significant
                            age and indigenous use (although nothing like
                            hundreds of years worth).

                            So my questions are pretty obvious. Does anyone
                            have any info on this more naturalistic style
                            of Dogon mask? Is it unusual for a Dogon mask
                            to be kept and re-used indigenously for years
                            (I think I've read that many Dogon masks are
                            discarded after a relatively short time)? Do
                            the forehead markings and possible longer term
                            use perhaps indicate Bamana or other influence?

                            thanks in advance, WK


                            --- LRubinstein@... wrote:

                            > Karen:
                            >
                            > It is always meaningful and worthwhile to explore
                            > forms from neighboring and
                            > often related groups when familiarizing yourself
                            > with the general body of
                            > work of a particular cultural group. Given the
                            > complex histories of contact,
                            > migration and displacement that characterize the
                            > evolution of most African
                            > societies and the influence of these historical
                            > elements on the development of
                            > styles, I encourage you to look and see whether
                            > there are discernible elements
                            > suggestive of such influence in the examples you
                            > come across as you explore.
                            > Personally, I think you will find an exploration of
                            > more northerly Malian
                            > and Burkinabe cultures than the Senufo -- Mossi and
                            > Bamana, for example -- for
                            > regional resonances more fruitful, although the
                            > reasons that these
                            > similarities may appear are rooted in quite distinct
                            > historical relationships between
                            > the Dogon and the Mossi and between the Dogon and
                            > the Bamana. (Is that
                            > sufficiently vague?)
                            >
                            > Too, it is fascinating to explore regional styles
                            > within a culture; failing
                            > to explore the diversity among Dogon styles, you
                            > will likely overlook
                            > characteristics which appear in some regions and
                            > not (or less apparently or
                            > frequently so) in other regions. The artistic
                            > production of the Dogon comprises a
                            > significant diversity of regional traditions and
                            > styles, as best illustrated
                            > in Helene Leloup's monumental (on so many levels)
                            > Dogon Statuary. More
                            > specifically, an additional characteristic displayed
                            > by your figure is the lack of
                            > differentiation in the representation of the arms,
                            > executed in your figure
                            > as a continuous element across the midsection of the
                            > figure. Although the
                            > general characteristics of the overall figures are
                            > quite different, this unified
                            > mass representing the arms appears -- albeit in
                            > varying degrees -- in two
                            > Dogon figures in the currently accessible catalogue
                            > of works from the Brill
                            > Collection being offered by Sotheby's in November
                            > (See Rand's Message #_1616_
                            >
                            (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/message/1616)
                            > ) -- Lots 5 & 8.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            (javascript:bigPictureWindowJsp('/jsps/live/lot/LotBigPic.jsp?LOT_ID=1592
                            83276&LG=/images/products/2006/N08287/159283276_N08287-5-1.jpg&SM=/images
                            /
                            >
                            products/2006/N08287/159283276-smaller-N08287-5-1.jpg&CAP=&liveFlag=Y&liv
                            e_lot
                            >
                            _id=5&sale_number=N08287','BigPic','height=600,width=615,resizable=yes,sc
                            rollb
                            > ars,status')) LOT 5
                            >
                            > A FINE DOGON HERMAPHRODITE TORSO
                            >
                            > 8,000—12,000 USD
                            >
                            _http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159283276_

                            >
                            >
                            (http://search.
                            sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159283276)
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            (javascript:bigPictureWindowJsp('/jsps/live/lot/LotBigPic.jsp?LOT_ID=1592
                            78163&LG=/images/products/2006/N08287/159278163_N08287-8-1.jpg&SM=/images
                            /
                            >
                            products/2006/N08287/159278163-smaller-N08287-8-1.jpg&CAP=&liveFlag=Y&liv
                            e_lot
                            >
                            _id=8&sale_number=N08287','BigPic','height=600,width=615,resizable=yes,sc
                            rollb
                            > ars,status'))
                            >
                            _http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159278163_

                            >
                            >
                            (http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/l
                            ot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159278163)
                            > LOT 8
                            >
                            > A DOGON MALE FIGURE
                            >
                            > 3,000—5,000 USD
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Perhaps others can share their insights on the
                            > prevalence of this feature
                            > either in Dogon works or works from other groups in
                            > the region to help determine
                            > to waht extent this feature -- like the
                            > arrow-shaped nose -- can be explored
                            > toward the determination of attribution in such
                            > figures and objects which
                            > contains such figural anthropomorphic
                            > representations as elements.
                            >
                            > There are many more messages applicable to the
                            > general topic of Dogon carved
                            > wooden figures and other objects in past postings.
                            > Among them are: _481_
                            >
                            (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/message/481)
                            > _1192_
                            >
                            (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/message/1192)
                            > , _1473_
                            >
                            (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/message/1473)
                            > ... 481 includes a link to images from
                            > the Imperato book previously suggested of
                            > anthropomorphic forms in stone that
                            > also display this characteristic.
                            >
                            > Lee
                            >

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