Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Can anyone identify this piece?

Expand Messages
  • theshamangallery
    hello Bob , That is an interesting object , and while the face doesnt really remind me of Dyak , the overall squatting form is typical for indonesian sculpture
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 5, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      hello Bob ,
      That is an interesting object , and while the face doesnt really
      remind me of Dyak , the overall squatting form is typical for
      indonesian sculpture , and perhaps it could be Dyak (borneo), or even
      Timor/flores?? The wood looks right for this region.

      Thats my 2 cents - Todd





      --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "rizzo_bob"
      <overthetopgallery@...> wrote:
      >
      > In photos under Bob's -----
      > Link:
      http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/browse/4067?b=1&m=t
      >
      > Can anyone in the group help me identify this piece?
      >
      > it's carved wood, about 5'6" tall --- termite eaten head, looks like
      > it's been outdoors for quite some time. There are carved chains around
      > the feet.
      >
      > Thansk in advance,
      >
      > Bob
      >
    • drohrman
      Hi Bob: This is a big, big figure for almost any traditional African culture. There are always exceptions, of course, and that makes identification difficult.
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 5, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Bob:

        This is a big, big figure for almost any traditional African culture.
        There are always exceptions, of course, and that makes identification
        difficult.

        Some questions:
        1. Is the wood naturally weathered grey? Painted? Patined at all?
        2.Is that a metal chain or is it carved into the wood? It appears to be
        roughly carved into the wood. But, if it is metal: It would be helpful
        to know whether there is a natural patina, paint or simply weathered
        surface. Also, if you can tell the nature of the chain: Is it steel, or
        aluminum could be of interest. Simply scratching the underside may
        help...if it is easily scratched with a pocket knife, it may be
        aluminum. If a layer comes off it may be chromium coated. Is it a
        bicycle security chain? Is there a lock? Chains and locks appear on
        minkisi figures from the DRC, but I don't think that is the origin of
        the piece, at least from a traditional standpoint.
        3.Is the head insect damaged ot is it simply rotted and hollowed
        heartwood? Termites sometimes leave a softened/rounded area, depending
        on the wood. This looks perhaps like heartwood deterioration. What does
        the carving look like; big chips or small patterned chips?

        First, Rand is correct; the child has a Lobi look to it--except perhaps
        for the lips. But the parent (is it female or male?)does not. The Lobi
        create houseposts and some large figures, and even some maternity
        figures. I would ask the others whether they have seen anything Lobi
        this tall--lifesize.

        Second, the upward gaze of the parent has hints of Congo-area figures,
        that are generally not this large. The ears (actually very well carved)
        are way too, too natural/ non-stylized rendering. That suggests more
        modern, non-traditional source. I will research that feature, but will
        be glad to hear from Lee and Rand about the ear shapes. The chains--
        wood or metal-- would certainly be appropriate for any post 1910 Congo
        figure, given the Belgian holocaust throughout that area. Again, unless
        relatively new, I do not think this figure is of DRC origin. The
        parents long arms, with dramatic elbow treatment, have a West Africa
        feel to them, but stylized hands, being turned upwards, throws me. Is
        that a robe billowing out behind the figure?

        Third, there are similarities, at least in the monumental scale of the
        piece, to the large weathered/ non-patined/ non-coated Sakalava / Vezo
        cultures of Madagascar. The grey weathering is typical of other East
        African pieces that were not painted or patinaed, and were left
        outdoors, as Rand mentions.

        Let us know some more details and perhaps a couple of close-up photos.
        Perhaps Rand/Lee/or someone else has the answer for you already.

        By the way, whatever the origin of the piece, it is very dramatic, and
        resonates with me regarding Colonial exploitation on the continent.

        Doug Rohrman

        --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "rizzo_bob"
        <overthetopgallery@...> wrote:
        >
        > In photos under Bob's -----
        > Link:
        http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/browse/4067?b=1&m=t
        >
        > Can anyone in the group help me identify this piece?
        >
        > it's carved wood, about 5'6" tall --- termite eaten head, looks like
        > it's been outdoors for quite some time. There are carved chains around
        > the feet.
        >
        > Thansk in advance,
        >
        > Bob
        >
      • Veronique Martelliere
        The character looks towards the sky, with tied feet, while the child looks at you... Well, this interesting sculpture rings a christian bell, to my eyes ! I
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 5, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          The character looks towards the sky, with tied feet, while the child looks at you... Well, this interesting sculpture rings a christian bell, to my eyes !
          I would say it is african - made within a christian community - and it sure would fit well in front of a chapel/church.
          I've seen similar large weathered statues, in Africa, but of course with a more obvious christian theme.
          This is only an impression/opinion : not sure.


          rizzo_bob <overthetopgallery@...> wrote:
          In photos under Bob's -----
          Link: http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/African_ Arts/photos/ browse/4067? b=1&m=t

          Can anyone in the group help me identify this piece?

          it's carved wood, about 5'6" tall --- termite eaten head, looks like
          it's been outdoors for quite some time. There are carved chains around
          the feet.

          Thansk in advance,

          Bob



          Do you Yahoo!?
          Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.

        • theshamangallery
          I never saw a Lobi that Big Doug , But your right on with Madagascar , That is also something I thought as well , and the way the heartwood eroded is
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 5, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            I never saw a Lobi that Big Doug , But your right on with Madagascar
            , That is also something I thought as well , and the way the heartwood
            eroded is definately the way Madagascar and Indonesian sculptures tend
            to look after a long exsposure to the elements,
            The way the wood looks sunbaked gray - a Sunny climate would be a
            safe bet?

            By the way Bob , I think its a great looking object wherever it is from!
            best -Todd





            --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "drohrman" <drohrman@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Bob:
            >
            > This is a big, big figure for almost any traditional African culture.
            > There are always exceptions, of course, and that makes identification
            > difficult.
            >
            > Some questions:
            > 1. Is the wood naturally weathered grey? Painted? Patined at all?
            > 2.Is that a metal chain or is it carved into the wood? It appears to be
            > roughly carved into the wood. But, if it is metal: It would be helpful
            > to know whether there is a natural patina, paint or simply weathered
            > surface. Also, if you can tell the nature of the chain: Is it steel, or
            > aluminum could be of interest. Simply scratching the underside may
            > help...if it is easily scratched with a pocket knife, it may be
            > aluminum. If a layer comes off it may be chromium coated. Is it a
            > bicycle security chain? Is there a lock? Chains and locks appear on
            > minkisi figures from the DRC, but I don't think that is the origin of
            > the piece, at least from a traditional standpoint.
            > 3.Is the head insect damaged ot is it simply rotted and hollowed
            > heartwood? Termites sometimes leave a softened/rounded area, depending
            > on the wood. This looks perhaps like heartwood deterioration. What does
            > the carving look like; big chips or small patterned chips?
            >
            > First, Rand is correct; the child has a Lobi look to it--except perhaps
            > for the lips. But the parent (is it female or male?)does not. The Lobi
            > create houseposts and some large figures, and even some maternity
            > figures. I would ask the others whether they have seen anything Lobi
            > this tall--lifesize.
            >
            > Second, the upward gaze of the parent has hints of Congo-area figures,
            > that are generally not this large. The ears (actually very well carved)
            > are way too, too natural/ non-stylized rendering. That suggests more
            > modern, non-traditional source. I will research that feature, but will
            > be glad to hear from Lee and Rand about the ear shapes. The chains--
            > wood or metal-- would certainly be appropriate for any post 1910 Congo
            > figure, given the Belgian holocaust throughout that area. Again, unless
            > relatively new, I do not think this figure is of DRC origin. The
            > parents long arms, with dramatic elbow treatment, have a West Africa
            > feel to them, but stylized hands, being turned upwards, throws me. Is
            > that a robe billowing out behind the figure?
            >
            > Third, there are similarities, at least in the monumental scale of the
            > piece, to the large weathered/ non-patined/ non-coated Sakalava / Vezo
            > cultures of Madagascar. The grey weathering is typical of other East
            > African pieces that were not painted or patinaed, and were left
            > outdoors, as Rand mentions.
            >
            > Let us know some more details and perhaps a couple of close-up photos.
            > Perhaps Rand/Lee/or someone else has the answer for you already.
            >
            > By the way, whatever the origin of the piece, it is very dramatic, and
            > resonates with me regarding Colonial exploitation on the continent.
            >
            > Doug Rohrman
            >
            > --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, "rizzo_bob"
            > <overthetopgallery@> wrote:
            > >
            > > In photos under Bob's -----
            > > Link:
            > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/browse/4067?b=1&m=t
            > >
            > > Can anyone in the group help me identify this piece?
            > >
            > > it's carved wood, about 5'6" tall --- termite eaten head, looks like
            > > it's been outdoors for quite some time. There are carved chains around
            > > the feet.
            > >
            > > Thansk in advance,
            > >
            > > Bob
            > >
            >
          • overthetopgallery
            Wow...Thanks everyone!!!!!! Now I m totally confused...(again) More pics tomorrow... To answer Doug s questions: Its wood - was once painted (I ll get some
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 5, 2006
            • 0 Attachment

              Wow...Thanks everyone!!!!!!

               

              Now I’m totally confused...(again)  More pics tomorrow...

               

              To answer Doug’s questions:

               

              Its wood – was once painted (I’ll get some surface shots) Looks like white or gray paint

               

              The chain is carved wood

               

              Not sure about insect or weather damage (another detail shot) I’m thinking both.

               

              Yes, I think it is a flowing robe that the mother (?)=not sure of the sex is wearing

               

              There is also some kind of marking/signature on the bottom rear (another detail shot)

               

              Only wish it were mine... doing the research for a friend ... who bought it from a friend – who thought it was from Cameroon ...

               

              More pics tomorrow..

               

              Again thanks all!

               

              Bob

               

               

               


              From: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com [mailto: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of theshamangallery
              Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:49 AM
              To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [African_Arts] Re: Can anyone identify this piece?

               


              I never saw a Lobi that Big Doug , But your right on with Madagascar
              , That is also something I thought as well , and the way the heartwood
              eroded is definately the way Madagascar and Indonesian sculptures tend
              to look after a long exsposure to the elements,
              The way the wood looks sunbaked gray - a Sunny climate would be a
              safe bet?

              By the way Bob , I think its a great looking object wherever it is from!
              best -Todd

              --- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com, "drohrman" <drohrman@.. .> wrote:

              >
              > Hi Bob:
              >
              > This is a big, big figure for almost any traditional African culture.
              > There are always exceptions, of course, and that makes identification
              > difficult.
              >
              > Some questions:
              > 1. Is the wood naturally weathered grey? Painted? Patined at all?
              > 2.Is that a metal chain or is it carved into the wood? It appears to be
              > roughly carved into the wood. But, if it is metal: It would be helpful
              > to know whether there is a natural patina, paint or simply weathered
              > surface. Also, if you can tell the nature of the chain: Is it steel, or
              > aluminum could be of interest. Simply scratching the underside may
              > help...if it is easily scratched with a pocket knife, it may be
              > aluminum. If a layer comes off it may be chromium coated. Is it a
              > bicycle security chain? Is there a lock? Chains and locks appear on
              > minkisi figures from the DRC, but I don't think that is the origin of
              > the piece, at least from a traditional standpoint.
              > 3.Is the head insect damaged ot is it simply rotted and hollowed
              > heartwood? Termites sometimes leave a softened/rounded area, depending
              > on the wood. This looks perhaps like heartwood deterioration. What does
              > the carving look like; big chips or small patterned chips?
              >
              > First, Rand is correct; the child has a
              Lobi look to it--except perhaps
              > for the lips. But the parent (is it female or male?)does not. The Lobi
              > create houseposts and some large figures, and even some maternity
              > figures. I would ask the others whether they have seen anything Lobi
              > this tall--lifesize.
              >
              > Second, the upward gaze of the parent has hints of Congo-area figures,
              > that are generally not this large. The ears (actually very well carved)
              > are way too, too natural/ non-stylized rendering. That suggests more
              > modern, non-traditional source. I will research that feature, but will
              > be glad to hear from Lee and Rand about the ear shapes. The chains--
              > wood or metal-- would certainly be appropriate for any post 1910
              w:st="on"> Congo
              > figure, given the Belgian holocaust throughout that area. Again, unless
              > relatively new, I do not think this figure is of DRC origin. The
              > parents long arms, with dramatic elbow treatment, have a West
              Africa
              > feel to them, but stylized hands, being turned upwards, throws me. Is
              > that a robe billowing out behind the figure?
              >
              > Third, there are similarities, at least in the monumental scale of the
              > piece, to the large weathered/ non-patined/ non-coated Sakalava / Vezo
              > cultures of Madagascar .
              The grey weathering is typical of other East
              > African pieces that were not painted or patinaed, and were left
              > outdoors, as Rand mentions.
              >
              > Let us know some more details and perhaps a couple of close-up photos.
              > Perhaps Rand/Lee/or someone else has the answer for you already.
              >
              > By the way, whatever the origin of the piece, it is very dramatic, and
              > resonates with me regarding Colonial exploitation on the continent.
              >
              > Doug Rohrman
              >
              > --- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com,
              "rizzo_bob"
              > <overthetopgallery@ > wrote:
              > >
              > > In photos under Bob's -----
              > > Link:
              >
              href="http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/browse/4067?b=1&m=t">http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/African_ Arts/photos/ browse/4067? b=1&m=t
              > >
              > > Can anyone in the group help me identify this piece?
              > >
              > > it's carved wood, about 5'6" tall --- termite eaten head, looks
              like
              > > it's been outdoors for quite some time. There are carved chains
              around
              > > the feet.
              > >
              > > Thansk in advance,
              > >
              > > Bob
              > >
              >

            • William Klebous
              My guess is folk art from the Caribbean, because of the deliverance from slavery theme, because of the extreme elongation of the arms, because of its size,
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 6, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                My guess is folk art from the Caribbean, because of
                the "deliverance from slavery" theme, because of
                the extreme elongation of the arms, because of its
                size, and because it is signed. Haiti, Jamaica,
                Anguilla, and the Virgin Islands are the strongest
                possibilities. Here's examples having some stylistic
                relevance:

                http://www.savannahgallery.com/trade/productview/91/22/

                http://www.ragoarts.com/onlinecats/10.04mod/1092.jpg

                http://www.4thworldmovement.org/Greeting%20Cards/Nativity/376.htm





                --- rizzo_bob <overthetopgallery@...> wrote:

                > In photos under Bob's -----
                > Link:
                >
                http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/browse/4067?b=1&m=t
                >
                >
                > Can anyone in the group help me identify this piece?
                >
                > it's carved wood, about 5'6" tall --- termite eaten
                > head, looks like
                > it's been outdoors for quite some time. There are
                > carved chains around
                > the feet.
                >
                > Thansk in advance,
                >
                > Bob
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > African Arts and Culture Discussion Group
                >
                > *Website for the group:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/
                >
                > *Photos folder for the group:
                > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos
                >
                >
                > *Message archives for the group:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/messages
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >




                ____________________________________________________
                On Yahoo!7
                Check back weekly for Trixi's new online adventures
                http://www.trixi.com.au
              • LRubinstein@post.harvard.edu
                Bob: The figure you presented is stunning both in scale and imagery. The difficulty of determining its origin is equally stunning in scale! I am intrigued by
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 6, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Bob:
                   
                  The figure you presented is stunning both in scale and imagery. The difficulty of determining its origin is equally stunning in scale!  I am intrigued by numerous other suggestions of origin, especially the Madagascan and Caribbean ideas, which I appreciate as a reminder not to delimit the geographical search too soon, although the over-all qualities of the piece still make it worthwhile to consider the possibilities within the region of which I initially thought.  Both the quality of the wood and the scale of the figure are suggestive of the need to explore that region (and the world). more fully for possible related figures.  If Doug, William -- or anyone else -- has the time, energy, interest or access to sources -- a deeper exploration of related examples from those regions would be most welcome and appreciated. 
                   
                  With regard to the figure itself, I am having difficulty perceiving the distinction -- if it exists -- between the smaller and larger figure and would like also to be able to look more closely at the faces and ears. It would be helpful to see some crisper images and additional angles and close-ups if that is possible.  More information on the metal chains and the signature would be illuminating as well, as the metalwork could offer important clues as to where the object has been and the signature may really be a readable clue as to the identity of the maker.
                   
                  Based on an initial visual impression, my initial assumption regarding its likely cultural origin was Lobi or thereabouts.   Consistent with my general approach to such questions of identification and attribution, I then look at a map actually or mentally and draw a circle around the geographical region (or regions) that seems (seem) to me the most likely geographical point(s) of origin and make a mental note (or written list) of related and contiguous cultures as well as to cross-check migration and inter-cultural histories of groups in the area(s).  In other words, I like to cast as broad a net as possible for resources that might contain clues about the general form as well as the features that an object displays so that I can cross -reference anomalous features such as -- in this case -- scale or facial characteristics that are inconsistent with predominant stylistic elements of a particular tradition or culture.  In this regard, it is often entirely plausible that features and styles not generally associated with a particular tradition exist but are not so well documented as better-known (sometimes canonical) examples.  I don't quickly rule out other points of origin nor do I assume that an object which does not seem consistent with a specific tradition (as I currently perceive that tradition)  do not possibly suggest local, stylistic or symbolic variations within that tradition.  So -- even though I am far from certain,  I am focusing my range of inquiry right now on the area that occurred to me first.  Even if it is determined that the figure in question originates elsewhere, the information gathered will provide important insights into instances where the considerations are relevant. 
                   
                  The general form and the unfinished, unstained surface of the wood were among the features that suggested a "Lobi Country" origin -- somewhere in the culturally complex area where Ghana, Burkina Faso and Cote d'Ivoire touch upon one another.  Seasonal economic migrations among peoples in the region -- particularly that of Burkinabe southward for agricultural employment -- add another dimension to the possible sources of inter-cultural influences.  But prior to the contemporary scene, historical -- including folkloric -- data suggest an earlier Ghanaian locality for the Lobi population before their arrival in Burkina Faso.  So, both synchronic and diachronic elements are suggestive of the need to explore an expanded (though still fairly limited) terrain to determine the possible introduction or presence of stylistic features not canonically Lobi as well as to consider the origin of the work from a different point in that expanded geographical terrain. 
                   
                  Even within the simplicity of their forms, Lobi (and related) sculpted figures do manifest a significant range of styles from the more realistic to the highly abstract (but no examples quite like this one).  Although it may not necessarily be ultimately relevant to this figure, I think it may be helpful to look more closely at various available images of Lobi figures.  Here are some that I have collected:  http://www.leoafricanus.net/LOBI_INDEX.html .  Then, there are thumbnails from Galerie Flak's "Magie Lobi" exhibition from 2004 and the accompanying texts that were generated with that exhibition.
                   First, the images:
                  Then, the study which accompanied this exhibition was written by Julien Bosc and can be viewed at:
                   
                  The Bosc site also offers links to very fine articles relating to the Lobi -- and many other cultures and traditions.  One of these is Claude-Henri Pirat's "Lobi Statuary":
                   
                  A link to other studies featured on the Julien Bosc site can be found within either of these linked pages above or at http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etude.htm#lobi
                   
                  One of the most important revelations that these images and texts reveal is the general tendency in considering objects from this region is prevalent assumption of a solitary cultural presence -- the Lobi.  In fact, the Gaoua region where many Lobi reside (and which, it has been noted, is by no means a static locality) includes a diverse and variously related complex of peoples.  In addition to the Lobi are the Birifor -- whose practices and forms are similar to those of the Lobi although their language is different.  Then, too, there are the Dagara (Dagara Lobr and Dagara Wile).  Other groups that have occupied the region include the Teesse (Thuuna), and the Gan.  According to Bosc -- and as images below will illustrate in the realm of clay and wooden sculptures -- "it is difficult to distinguish to distinguish a real difference between Lobi and Birifor statuary, while Dagara statuary has little to do with either." (Source:  http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob3.htm
                   
                  Staying within the region, there is one image of a maternity figure included on the Bosc site that caught my eye although -- as Vero reminds us -- the maternity figure is a primary one with ever so many variations throughout essentially every tradition.  The figure below, as indicated on the site, is of unknown specific origin although its topic and range can apparently at least be delimited to the form and culture complex upon which we are focusing at the moment:   
                  cliquez pour retourner à la page "objets 25"

                  retour à la page précédente

                   
                  To generate additional angles, perspectives, insights on the question, I encourage everyone to explore the significant array of on-line images of places, people and objects from the Gaoua region and beyond.  I hope a viewing of these images will help develop a sense of -- and some additional ideas about -- the range and relationship between Lobi and Birifor cultures and forms and whether they bear any relation to the figure in question, so I have provided images and links to make this easily possible.  The first three images below are from http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/lobialbum.htm . (For those wishing to focus specifically upon the Dogon, also see the images at http:www.dogon-lobi.ch and don't overlook the .pdf text at http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/pdfeng.pdf .)  Then, there is an image from another source (links below image) on the Birifor in Northwest Ghana that illustrates the similarity of Lobi and Birifor shrine figures.  Finally, there is one more image of a clay figure identified as Lobi.  From what I have been able to uncover thus far, only the clay sculptures of the Lobi and Birifor seem to achieve the scale of the figure Bob presented.  Again, though, I do not have access to some of the major works on the Lobi (Piet Meyer, Franco Scanzi...).  Nonetheless, I think these images -- and the sites from which they come -- offer much good information and many spectacular images that help to inform the eye and mind regarding regional material culture.
                   
                   
                   BIRIFOR : REPRESENTATION OF LATE PRESIDENT SANKARA - 88
                   
                  LOBI : GAOUA REGION - 88
                  DOWNLOAD 300 DPI IMAGE
                  D046
                   
                  img_3320.jpg
                  10-NOV-2004   -- Pascal Nardon [Gaoua, Lobi Country] --[culture undesignated]
                   
                  One more good source for Lobi region imagery (as well as Dogon and some Mossi, Moba and Senufo images as well) can be viewed at http://www.geocities.com/djembesorg/ .
                   
                  It will be interesting to see where the search for ideas about the identification of Bob's figure lead us -- whether toward or away from "Lobi country" or elsewhere.
                   
                  Lee
                   
                   
                • drohrman
                  Lee, et al: As usual Lee, you blow us all away. So much food for thought. Birifor is a good idea to keep exploring. Let me suggest to the group a couple of
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 6, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Lee, et al:

                    As usual Lee, you blow us all away. So much food for thought. Birifor
                    is a good idea to keep exploring.

                    Let me suggest to the group a couple of lines of thinking: First, if
                    we are following the traditional African ethnic groups, I would ask
                    Bob's indulging us with some sharp closeups of the ears on the parent
                    and child (both look modern to me), and the hands of the
                    parent...plus anything else that would be helpful. Sorry for my ear-
                    fetish, but I think that is key here.

                    I am thinking more and more that this is contemporary. So, let me
                    suggest a second line of thinking, I am frankly more of a mind toward
                    a local contemporary. See, for instance this magnificent work by
                    Vincent Kofi, the great contemporary Ghanian sculptor (1927-1974):

                    http://www.archives.gov/research/african-art/select-list-108.html

                    Sorry, you'll have to copy this to your Google. and bring up a copy.
                    (It is in the National Archives site...under Contemporary African
                    Art..no 108).

                    The child, in any event, plus the flow of lines, and wood look very
                    similar to Bob's sculpture. Kofi's baby's raised arms are among
                    typical Lobi gestures. The Kofi's baby's feet amazingly seem to
                    resemble the hands in Bob's sculpture.

                    Take a look and see what you all think.

                    Kind regards to all,

                    Doug



                    --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, LRubinstein@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Bob:
                    >
                    > The figure you presented is stunning both in scale and imagery.
                    The
                    > difficulty of determining its origin is equally stunning in scale!
                    I am intrigued by
                    > numerous other suggestions of origin, especially the Madagascan
                    and
                    > Caribbean ideas, which I appreciate as a reminder not to delimit
                    the geographical
                    > search too soon, although the over-all qualities of the piece
                    still make it
                    > worthwhile to consider the possibilities within the region of which
                    I initially
                    > thought. Both the quality of the wood and the scale of the figure
                    are
                    > suggestive of the need to explore that region (and the world).
                    more fully for
                    > possible related figures. If Doug, William -- or anyone else --
                    has the time,
                    > energy, interest or access to sources -- a deeper exploration of
                    related examples
                    > from those regions would be most welcome and appreciated.
                    >
                    > With regard to the figure itself, I am having difficulty perceiving
                    the
                    > distinction -- if it exists -- between the smaller and larger
                    figure and would
                    > like also to be able to look more closely at the faces and ears.
                    It would be
                    > helpful to see some crisper images and additional angles and close-
                    ups if that
                    > is possible. More information on the metal chains and the
                    signature would be
                    > illuminating as well, as the metalwork could offer important clues
                    as to
                    > where the object has been and the signature may really be a
                    readable clue as to
                    > the identity of the maker.
                    >
                    > Based on an initial visual impression, my initial assumption
                    regarding its
                    > likely cultural origin was Lobi or thereabouts. Consistent with
                    my general
                    > approach to such questions of identification and attribution, I
                    then look at a
                    > map actually or mentally and draw a circle around the geographical
                    region
                    > (or regions) that seems (seem) to me the most likely geographical
                    point(s) of
                    > origin and make a mental note (or written list) of related and
                    contiguous
                    > cultures as well as to cross-check migration and inter-cultural
                    histories of
                    > groups in the area(s). In other words, I like to cast as broad a
                    net as possible
                    > for resources that might contain clues about the general form as
                    well as the
                    > features that an object displays so that I can cross -reference
                    anomalous
                    > features such as -- in this case -- scale or facial
                    characteristics that are
                    > inconsistent with predominant stylistic elements of a particular
                    tradition or
                    > culture. In this regard, it is often entirely plausible that
                    features and
                    > styles not generally associated with a particular tradition exist
                    but are not so
                    > well documented as better-known (sometimes canonical) examples. I
                    don't
                    > quickly rule out other points of origin nor do I assume that an
                    object which
                    > does not seem consistent with a specific tradition (as I currently
                    perceive that
                    > tradition) do not possibly suggest local, stylistic or symbolic
                    variations
                    > within that tradition. So -- even though I am far from certain,
                    I am
                    > focusing my range of inquiry right now on the area that occurred
                    to me first. Even
                    > if it is determined that the figure in question originates
                    elsewhere, the
                    > information gathered will provide important insights into
                    instances where the
                    > considerations are relevant.
                    >
                    > The general form and the unfinished, unstained surface of the wood
                    were
                    > among the features that suggested a "Lobi Country" origin --
                    somewhere in the
                    > culturally complex area where Ghana, Burkina Faso and Cote d'Ivoire
                    touch upon
                    > one another. Seasonal economic migrations among peoples in the
                    region --
                    > particularly that of Burkinabe southward for agricultural
                    employment -- add
                    > another dimension to the possible sources of inter-cultural
                    influences. But prior
                    > to the contemporary scene, historical -- including folkloric --
                    data suggest
                    > an earlier Ghanaian locality for the Lobi population before their
                    arrival in
                    > Burkina Faso. So, both synchronic and diachronic elements are
                    suggestive of
                    > the need to explore an expanded (though still fairly limited)
                    terrain to
                    > determine the possible introduction or presence of stylistic
                    features not
                    > canonically Lobi as well as to consider the origin of the work from
                    a different
                    > point in that expanded geographical terrain.
                    >
                    > Even within the simplicity of their forms, Lobi (and related)
                    sculpted
                    > figures do manifest a significant range of styles from the more
                    realistic to the
                    > highly abstract (but no examples quite like this one). Although it
                    may not
                    > necessarily be ultimately relevant to this figure, I think it may
                    be helpful to
                    > look more closely at various available images of Lobi figures.
                    Here are
                    > some that I have collected:
                    _http://www.leoafricanus.net/LOBI_INDEX.html_
                    > (http://www.leoafricanus.net/LOBI_INDEX.html) . Then, there are
                    thumbnails from
                    > Galerie Flak's "Magie Lobi" exhibition from 2004 and the
                    accompanying texts
                    > that were generated with that exhibition.
                    > First, the images:
                    > _http://www.galerieflak.com/expo/lobi/index4.html_
                    > (http://www.galerieflak.com/expo/lobi/index4.html)
                    > Then, the study which accompanied this exhibition was written by
                    Julien Bosc
                    > and can be viewed at:
                    > Francais: _http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob2.htm_
                    > (http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob2.htm)
                    > English: _http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob3.htm_
                    > (http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob3.htm)
                    >
                    > The Bosc site also offers links to very fine articles relating to
                    the Lobi
                    > -- and many other cultures and traditions. One of these is Claude-
                    Henri
                    > Pirat's "Lobi Statuary":
                    > Francais: _http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/lobetud.htm_
                    > (http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/lobetud.htm)
                    > English: _http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/lobetud.htm_
                    > (http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/lobetud.htm)
                    >
                    > A link to other studies featured on the Julien Bosc site can be
                    found within
                    > either of these linked pages above or at
                    > _http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etude.htm#lobi_
                    (http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etude.htm#lobi)
                    >
                    > One of the most important revelations that these images and texts
                    reveal is
                    > the general tendency in considering objects from this region is
                    prevalent
                    > assumption of a solitary cultural presence -- the Lobi. In fact,
                    the Gaoua
                    > region where many Lobi reside (and which, it has been noted, is by
                    no means a
                    > static locality) includes a diverse and variously related complex
                    of peoples.
                    > In addition to the Lobi are the Birifor -- whose practices and
                    forms are
                    > similar to those of the Lobi although their language is
                    different. Then, too,
                    > there are the Dagara (Dagara Lobr and Dagara Wile). Other groups
                    that have
                    > occupied the region include the Teesse (Thuuna), and the Gan.
                    According to Bosc
                    > -- and as images below will illustrate in the realm of clay and
                    wooden
                    > sculptures -- "it is difficult to distinguish to distinguish a
                    real difference
                    > between Lobi and Birifor statuary, while Dagara statuary has
                    little to do with
                    > either." (Source:
                    _http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob3.htm_
                    > (http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob3.htm) )
                    >
                    > Staying within the region, there is one image of a maternity
                    figure included
                    > on the Bosc site that caught my eye although -- as Vero reminds
                    us -- the
                    > maternity figure is a primary one with ever so many variations
                    throughout
                    > essentially every tradition. The figure below, as indicated on
                    the site, is of
                    > unknown specific origin although its topic and range can
                    apparently at least
                    > be delimited to the form and culture complex upon which we are
                    focusing at the
                    > moment:
                    >
                    > (http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/nouv25.htm)
                    >
                    > (http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/mat1.htm)
                    >
                    > _http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/mat11.htm_
                    > (http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/mat11.htm)
                    >
                    > To generate additional angles, perspectives, insights on the
                    question, I
                    > encourage everyone to explore the significant array of on-line
                    images of places,
                    > people and objects from the Gaoua region and beyond. I hope a
                    viewing of
                    > these images will help develop a sense of -- and some additional
                    ideas about --
                    > the range and relationship between Lobi and Birifor cultures and
                    forms and
                    > whether they bear any relation to the figure in question, so I have
                    provided
                    > images and links to make this easily possible. The first three
                    images below
                    > are from _http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/lobialbum.htm_
                    > (http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/lobialbum.htm) . (For those wishing to
                    focus specifically upon the Dogon, also
                    > see the images at http:www.dogon-lobi.ch and don't overlook
                    the .pdf text at
                    > _http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/pdfeng.pdf_ (http://www.dogon-
                    lobi.ch/pdfeng.pdf)
                    > .) Then, there is an image from another source (links below
                    image) on the
                    > Birifor in Northwest Ghana that illustrates the similarity of Lobi
                    and Birifor
                    > shrine figures. Finally, there is one more image of a clay figure
                    identified
                    > as Lobi. From what I have been able to uncover thus far, only the
                    clay
                    > sculptures of the Lobi and Birifor seem to achieve the scale of
                    the figure Bob
                    > presented. Again, though, I do not have access to some of the
                    major works on
                    > the Lobi (Piet Meyer, Franco Scanzi...). Nonetheless, I think
                    these images --
                    > and the sites from which they come -- offer much good information
                    and many
                    > spectacular images that help to inform the eye and mind regarding
                    regional
                    > material culture.
                    >
                    >
                    > BIRIFOR : REPRESENTATION OF LATE PRESIDENT SANKARA - 88
                    >
                    > _http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/lobialbum.htm_
                    > (http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/lobialbum.htm)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > (http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/t07.htm) (http://www.dogon-
                    lobi.ch/t09.htm)
                    > BIRIFOR - 88
                    > _DOWNLOAD 300 DPI IMAGE_ (http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/allo012.htm)
                    >
                    > (http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/s45.htm) (http://www.dogon-
                    lobi.ch/s47.htm) LOBI
                    > : GAOUA REGION - 88
                    > _DOWNLOAD 300 DPI IMAGE_ (http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/allo010.htm)
                    D046
                    > _http://kristhors.dk/images/ghana/Bush%20spirit%20KONTOMO%
                    20shrine.jpg_
                    > (http://kristhors.dk/images/ghana/Bush%20spirit%20KONTOMO%
                    20shrine.jpg) (Birifor,
                    > NW Ghana)
                    > _http://kristhors.dk/images/ghana/_
                    (http://kristhors.dk/images/ghana/)
                    > _http://kristhors.dk/blog/_ (http://kristhors.dk/blog/)
                    >
                    > (http://www.pbase.com/tontonpg/gaoua&page=2) 10-NOV-2004 --
                    Pascal
                    > Nardon [Gaoua, Lobi Country] --[culture undesignated]
                    > _http://www.pbase.com/tontonpg/image/36466607_
                    > (http://www.pbase.com/tontonpg/image/36466607)
                    >
                    > One more good source for Lobi region imagery (as well as Dogon and
                    some
                    > Mossi, Moba and Senufo images as well) can be viewed at
                    > _http://www.geocities.com/djembesorg/_
                    (http://www.geocities.com/djembesorg/) .
                    >
                    > It will be interesting to see where the search for ideas about the
                    > identification of Bob's figure lead us -- whether toward or away
                    from "Lobi country"
                    > or elsewhere.
                    >
                    > Lee
                    >
                  • overthetopgallery
                    Lee --- Doug, simply amazing! Thanks so much to everyone. Now to digest al the info ... I ve added a few more clearer photos; in Photos under Bob s
                    Message 9 of 14 , Oct 6, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Lee --- Doug, simply amazing! Thanks so much to everyone.  

                       

                      Now to digest al the info ...

                       

                      I’ve added a few more clearer photos; in Photos under Bob’s http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/browse/4067  details of baby’s ear, signature on bottom left of piece, (looks like MVO with a line though all the letters),  the inside of head, (insect–weather damage?) paint/surface detail, detail of chain w/ live moss still growing on it! The figure is definitely squatting -- holding the child, her knees are bent @ a sharp angle behind the child’s’ back. A first I thought she might be wearing a robe but on more careful inspection I’d say not.  

                       

                      Thanks all for all the help & interest.

                       

                       

                      Bob

                       


                      From: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com [mailto: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of LRubinstein@...
                      Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:16 PM
                      To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [African_Arts] Re: Can anyone identify this piece?

                       

                      Bob:

                       

                      The figure you presented is stunning both in scale and imagery. The difficulty of determining its origin is equally stunning in scale!  I am intrigued by numerous other suggestions of origin, especially the Madagascan and Caribbean ideas, which I appreciate as a reminder not to delimit the geographical search too soon, although the over-all qualities of the piece still make it worthwhile to consider the possibilities within the region of which I initially thought.  Both the quality of the wood and the scale of the figure are suggestive of the need to explore that region (and the world). more fully for possible related figures.  If Doug, William -- or anyone else -- has the time, energy, interest or access to sources -- a deeper exploration of related examples from those regions would be most welcome and appreciated. 

                       

                      With regard to the figure itself, I am having difficulty perceiving the distinction -- if it exists -- between the smaller and larger figure and would like also to be able to look more closely at the faces and ears. It would be helpful to see some crisper images and additional angles and close-ups if that is possible.  More information on the metal chains and the signature would be illuminating as well, as the metalwork could offer important clues as to where the object has been and the signature may really be a readable clue as to the identity of the maker.

                       

                      Based on an initial visual impression, my initial assumption regarding its likely cultural origin was Lobi or thereabouts.   Consistent with my general approach to such questions of identification and attribution, I then look at a map actually or mentally and draw a circle around the geographical region (or regions) that seems (seem) to me the most likely geographical point(s) of origin and make a mental note (or written list) of related and contiguous cultures as well as to cross-check migration and inter-cultural histories of groups in the area(s).  In other words, I like to cast as broad a net as possible for resources that might contain clues about the general form as well as the features that an object displays so that I can cross -reference anomalous features such as -- in this case -- scale or facial characteristics that are inconsistent with predominant stylistic elements of a particular tradition or culture.  In this regard, it is often entirely plausible that features and styles not generally associated with a particular tradition exist but are not so well documented as better-known (sometimes canonical) examples.  I don't quickly rule out other points of origin nor do I assume that an object which does not seem consistent with a specific tradition (as I currently perceive that tradition)  do not possibly suggest local, stylistic or symbolic variations within that tradition.  So -- even though I am far from certain,  I am focusing my range of inquiry right now on the area that occurred to me first.  Even if it is determined that the figure in question originates elsewhere, the information gathered will provide important insights into instances where the considerations are relevant. 

                       

                      The general form and the unfinished, unstained surface of the wood were among the features that suggested a "Lobi Country" origin -- somewhere in the culturally complex area where Ghana , Burkina Faso and Cote d'Ivoire touch upon one another.  Seasonal economic migrations among peoples in the region -- particularly that of Burkinabe southward for agricultural employment -- add another dimension to the possible sources of inter-cultural influences.  But prior to the contemporary scene, historical -- including folkloric -- data suggest an earlier Ghanaian locality for the Lobi population before their arrival in Burkina Faso .  So, both synchronic and diachronic elements are suggestive of the need to explore an expanded (though still fairly limited) terrain to determine the possible introduction or presence of stylistic features not canonically Lobi as well as to consider the origin of the work from a different point in that expanded geographical terrain. 

                       

                      Even within the simplicity of their forms, Lobi (and related) sculpted figures do manifest a significant range of styles from the more realistic to the highly abstract (but no examples quite like this one).  Although it may not necessarily be ultimately relevant to this figure, I think it may be helpful to look more closely at various available images of Lobi figures.  Here are some that I have collected:  http://www.leoafric anus.net/ LOBI_INDEX. html .  Then, there are thumbnails from Galerie Flak's "Magie Lobi" exhibition from 2004 and the accompanying texts that were generated with that exhibition.

                       First, the images:

                      Then, the study which accompanied this exhibition was written by Julien Bosc and can be viewed at:

                       

                      The Bosc site also offers links to very fine articles relating to the Lobi -- and many other cultures and traditions.  One of these is Claude-Henri Pirat's "Lobi Statuary":

                       

                      A link to other studies featured on the Julien Bosc site can be found within either of these linked pages above or at http://perso. orange.fr/ africart/ pages/etude. htm#lobi

                       

                      One of the most important revelations that these images and texts reveal is the general tendency in considering objects from this region is prevalent assumption of a solitary cultural presence -- the Lobi.  In fact, the Gaoua region where many Lobi reside (and which, it has been noted, is by no means a static locality) includes a diverse and variously related complex of peoples.  In addition to the Lobi are the Birifor -- whose practices and forms are similar to those of the Lobi although their language is different.  Then, too, there are the Dagara (Dagara Lobr and Dagara Wile).  Other groups that have occupied the region include the Teesse (Thuuna), and the Gan.  According to Bosc -- and as images below will illustrate in the realm of clay and wooden sculptures -- "it is difficult to distinguish to distinguish a real difference between Lobi and Birifor statuary, while Dagara statuary has little to do with either." (Source:  http://perso. orange.fr/ africart/ pages/etlob3. htm

                       

                      Staying within the region, there is one image of a maternity figure included on the Bosc site that caught my eye although -- as Vero reminds us -- the maternity figure is a primary one with ever so many variations throughout essentially every tradition.  The figure below, as indicated on the site, is of unknown specific origin although its topic and range can apparently at least be delimited to the form and culture complex upon which we are focusing at the moment:   

                      cliquez pour retourner ` la page "objets 25"

                      retour ` la page pricidente

                       

                      To generate additional angles, perspectives, insights on the question, I encourage everyone to explore the significant array of on-line images of places, people and objects from the Gaoua region and beyond.  I hope a viewing of these images will help develop a sense of -- and some additional ideas about -- the range and relationship between Lobi and Birifor cultures and forms and whether they bear any relation to the figure in question, so I have provided images and links to make this easily possible.  The first three images below are from http://www.dogon- lobi.ch/lobialbu m.htm . (For those wishing to focus specifically upon the Dogon, also see the images at http:www.dogon- lobi.ch and don't overlook the .pdf text at http://www.dogon- lobi.ch/pdfeng. pdf .)  Then, there is an image from another source (links below image) on the Birifor in Northwest Ghana that illustrates the similarity of Lobi and Birifor shrine figures.  Finally, there is one more image of a clay figure identified as Lobi.  From what I have been able to uncover thus far, only the clay sculptures of the Lobi and Birifor seem to achieve the scale of the figure Bob presented.  Again, though, I do not have access to some of the major works on the Lobi (Piet Meyer, Franco Scanzi...).  Nonetheless, I think these images -- and the sites from which they come -- offer much good information and many spectacular images that help to inform the eye and mind regarding regional material culture.

                       

                       

                       BIRIFOR : REPRESENTATION OF LATE PRESIDENT SANKARA - 88

                       

                       

                       

                       

                       

                       

                      LOBI : GAOUA REGION - 88
                      DOWNLOAD 300 DPI IMAGE

                      D046

                       

                      img_3320.jpg

                      10-NOV-2004   -- Pascal Nardon [Gaoua, Lobi Country] --[culture undesignated]

                       

                       

                      One more good source for Lobi region imagery (as well as Dogon and some Mossi, Moba and Senufo images as well) can be viewed at http://www.geocitie s.com/djembesorg / .

                       

                      It will be interesting to see where the search for ideas about the identification of Bob's figure lead us -- whether toward or away from "Lobi country" or elsewhere.

                       

                      Lee

                       

                       

                    • William Klebous
                      1) Though this might well be a coincidence, rather than a clue, the signature appears to be the symbol for anarchy...
                      Message 10 of 14 , Oct 6, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        1) Though this might well be a coincidence, rather
                        than a clue, the signature appears to be the
                        symbol for anarchy...

                        http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&q=anarchy%20symbol&btnG=Google+Search&sa=N&tab=wi

                        2) Moss could support the idea that this is a
                        relatively recent piece of folk/tourist art
                        that has been kept outside since being imported...


                        --- overthetopgallery <overthetopgallery@...>
                        wrote:

                        > Lee --- Doug, simply amazing! Thanks so much to
                        > everyone.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Now to digest al the info ...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I've added a few more clearer photos; in Photos
                        > under Bob's
                        >
                        http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/browse/4067
                        > details of
                        > baby's ear, signature on bottom left of piece,
                        > (looks like MVO with a line
                        > though all the letters), the inside of head,
                        > (insect-weather damage?)
                        > paint/surface detail, detail of chain w/ live moss
                        > still growing on it! The
                        > figure is definitely squatting -- holding the child,
                        > her knees are bent @ a
                        > sharp angle behind the child's' back. A first I
                        > thought she might be wearing
                        > a robe but on more careful inspection I'd say not.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Thanks all for all the help & interest.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Bob
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > From: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:African_Arts@yahoogroups.com] On
                        > Behalf Of LRubinstein@...
                        > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:16 PM
                        > To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [African_Arts] Re: Can anyone identify
                        > this piece?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Bob:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The figure you presented is stunning both in scale
                        > and imagery. The
                        > difficulty of determining its origin is equally
                        > stunning in scale! I am
                        > intrigued by numerous other suggestions of origin,
                        > especially the Madagascan
                        > and Caribbean ideas, which I appreciate as a
                        > reminder not to delimit the
                        > geographical search too soon, although the over-all
                        > qualities of the piece
                        > still make it worthwhile to consider the
                        > possibilities within the region of
                        > which I initially thought. Both the quality of the
                        > wood and the scale of
                        > the figure are suggestive of the need to explore
                        > that region (and the
                        > world). more fully for possible related figures. If
                        > Doug, William -- or
                        > anyone else -- has the time, energy, interest or
                        > access to sources -- a
                        > deeper exploration of related examples from those
                        > regions would be most
                        > welcome and appreciated.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > With regard to the figure itself, I am having
                        > difficulty perceiving the
                        > distinction -- if it exists -- between the smaller
                        > and larger figure and
                        > would like also to be able to look more closely at
                        > the faces and ears. It
                        > would be helpful to see some crisper images and
                        > additional angles and
                        > close-ups if that is possible. More information on
                        > the metal chains and the
                        > signature would be illuminating as well, as the
                        > metalwork could offer
                        > important clues as to where the object has been and
                        > the signature may really
                        > be a readable clue as to the identity of the maker.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Based on an initial visual impression, my initial
                        > assumption regarding its
                        > likely cultural origin was Lobi or thereabouts.
                        > Consistent with my general
                        > approach to such questions of identification and
                        > attribution, I then look at
                        > a map actually or mentally and draw a circle around
                        > the geographical region
                        > (or regions) that seems (seem) to me the most likely
                        > geographical point(s)
                        > of origin and make a mental note (or written list)
                        > of related and contiguous
                        > cultures as well as to cross-check migration and
                        > inter-cultural histories of
                        > groups in the area(s). In other words, I like to
                        > cast as broad a net as
                        > possible for resources that might contain clues
                        > about the general form as
                        > well as the features that an object displays so that
                        > I can cross -reference
                        > anomalous features such as -- in this case -- scale
                        > or facial
                        > characteristics that are inconsistent with
                        > predominant stylistic elements of
                        > a particular tradition or culture. In this regard,
                        > it is often entirely
                        > plausible that features and styles not generally
                        > associated with a
                        > particular tradition exist but are not so well
                        > documented as better-known
                        > (sometimes canonical) examples. I don't quickly
                        > rule out other points of
                        > origin nor do I assume that an object which does not
                        > seem consistent with a
                        > specific tradition (as I currently perceive that
                        > tradition) do not possibly
                        > suggest local, stylistic or symbolic variations
                        > within that tradition. So
                        > -- even though I am far from certain, I am focusing
                        > my range of inquiry
                        > right now on the area that occurred to me first.
                        > Even if it is determined
                        > that the figure in question originates elsewhere,
                        > the information gathered
                        > will provide important insights into instances where
                        > the considerations are
                        > relevant.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The general form and the unfinished, unstained
                        > surface of the wood were
                        > among the features that suggested a "Lobi Country"
                        > origin -- somewhere in
                        > the culturally complex area where Ghana, Burkina
                        > Faso and Cote d'Ivoire
                        > touch upon one another. Seasonal economic
                        > migrations among peoples in the
                        > region -- particularly that of Burkinabe southward
                        > for agricultural
                        > employment -- add another dimension to the possible
                        > sources of
                        > inter-cultural influences. But prior to the
                        > contemporary scene, historical
                        > -- including folkloric -- data suggest an earlier
                        > Ghanaian locality for the
                        > Lobi population before their arrival in Burkina
                        > Faso. So, both synchronic
                        > and diachronic elements are suggestive of the need
                        > to explore an expanded
                        > (though still fairly limited) terrain to determine
                        > the possible introduction
                        > or presence of stylistic features not canonically
                        > Lobi as well as to
                        > consider the origin of the work from a different
                        > point in that expanded
                        > geographical terrain.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Even within the simplicity of their forms, Lobi (and
                        > related) sculpted
                        > figures do manifest a significant range of styles
                        > from the more realistic to
                        > the highly abstract (but no examples quite like this
                        > one). Although it may
                        > not necessarily be ultimately relevant to this
                        > figure, I think it may be
                        > helpful to look more closely at various available
                        > images of Lobi figures.
                        > Here are some that I have collected:
                        > http://www.leoafric
                        > <http://www.leoafricanus.net/LOBI_INDEX.html>
                        > anus.net/LOBI_INDEX.html .
                        > Then, there are thumbnails from Galerie Flak's
                        > "Magie Lobi" exhibition from
                        > 2004 and the accompanying texts that were generated
                        > with that exhibition.
                        >
                        > First, the images:
                        >
                        > http://www.galerief
                        > <http://www.galerieflak.com/expo/lobi/index4.html>
                        > lak.com/expo/lobi/index4.html
                        >
                        > Then, the study which accompanied this exhibition
                        > was written by Julien Bosc
                        > and can be viewed at:
                        >
                        > Francais: http://perso.
                        > <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob2.htm>
                        > orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob2.htm
                        >
                        > English: http://perso.
                        > <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob3.htm>
                        > orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob3.htm
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The Bosc site also offers links to very fine
                        > articles relating to the Lobi
                        > -- and many other cultures and traditions. One of
                        > these is Claude-Henri
                        > Pirat's "Lobi Statuary":
                        >
                        > Francais: http://perso.
                        > <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/lobetud.htm>
                        > orange.fr/africart/pages/lobetud.htm
                        >
                        > English: http://perso.
                        > <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/lobetud.htm>
                        > orange.fr/africart/pages/lobetud.htm
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > A link to other studies featured on the Julien Bosc
                        > site can be found within
                        > either of these linked pages above or at
                        > http://perso.
                        >
                        <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etude.htm#lobi>
                        > orange.fr/africart/pages/etude.htm#lobi
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > One of the most important revelations that these
                        > images and texts reveal is
                        > the general tendency in considering objects from
                        > this region is prevalent
                        > assumption of a solitary cultural presence -- the
                        > Lobi. In fact, the Gaoua
                        > region where many Lobi reside (and which, it has
                        > been noted, is by no means
                        > a static locality) includes a diverse and variously
                        > related complex of
                        > peoples. In addition to the Lobi are the Birifor --
                        > whose practices and
                        > forms are similar to those of the Lobi although
                        > their language is different.
                        > Then, too, there are the Dagara (Dagara Lobr and
                        > Dagara Wile). Other groups
                        > that have occupied the region include the Teesse
                        > (Thuuna), and the Gan.
                        > According to Bosc -- and as images below will
                        > illustrate in the realm of
                        > clay and wooden sculptures -- "it is difficult to
                        > distinguish to distinguish
                        > a real difference between Lobi and Birifor statuary,
                        > while Dagara statuary
                        > has little to do with either." (Source:
                        > http://perso.
                        > <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob3.htm>
                        > orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob3.htm)
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Staying within the region, there is one image of a
                        > maternity figure included
                        > on the Bosc site that caught my eye although -- as
                        > Vero reminds us -- the
                        > maternity figure is a primary one with ever so many
                        > variations throughout
                        > essentially every tradition. The figure below, as
                        > indicated on the site, is
                        > of unknown specific origin although its topic and
                        > range can apparently at
                        > least be delimited to the form and culture complex
                        > upon which we are
                        > focusing at the moment:
                        >
                        >
                        > <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/nouv25.htm>
                        > cliquez pour retourner `
                        > la page "objets 25"
                        >
                        > <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/mat1.htm>
                        > retour ` la page
                        > pricidente
                        >
                        > http://perso.
                        > <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/mat11.htm>
                        > orange.fr/africart/pages/mat11.htm
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To generate additional angles, perspectives,
                        > insights on the question, I
                        > encourage everyone to explore the significant array
                        > of on-line images of
                        > places, people and objects from the Gaoua region and
                        > beyond. I hope a
                        > viewing of these images will help develop a sense of
                        > -- and some additional
                        > ideas about -- the range and relationship between
                        > Lobi and Birifor cultures
                        > and forms and whether they bear any relation to the
                        > figure in question, so I
                        > have provided images and links to make this easily
                        > possible. The first
                        > three images below are from http://www.dogon-
                        > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/lobialbum.htm>
                        > lobi.ch/lobialbum.htm . (For those
                        > wishing to focus specifically upon the Dogon, also
                        > see the images at
                        > http:www.dogon-lobi.ch and don't overlook the .pdf
                        > text at http://www.dogon-
                        > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/pdfeng.pdf>
                        > lobi.ch/pdfeng.pdf .) Then, there is
                        > an image from another source (links below image) on
                        > the Birifor in Northwest
                        > Ghana that illustrates the similarity of Lobi and
                        > Birifor shrine figures.
                        > Finally, there is one more image of a clay figure
                        > identified as Lobi. From
                        > what I have been able to uncover thus far, only the
                        > clay sculptures of the
                        > Lobi and Birifor seem to achieve the scale of the
                        > figure Bob presented.
                        > Again, though, I do not have access to some of the
                        > major works on the Lobi
                        > (Piet Meyer, Franco Scanzi...). Nonetheless, I
                        > think these images -- and
                        > the sites from which they come -- offer much good
                        > information and many
                        > spectacular images that help to inform the eye and
                        > mind regarding regional
                        > material culture.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/t05.jpg>
                        >
                        > BIRIFOR : REPRESENTATION OF LATE PRESIDENT SANKARA
                        > - 88
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > http://www.dogon-
                        > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/lobialbum.htm>
                        > lobi.ch/lobialbum.htm
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/t08.jpg>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/t07.htm>
                        >
                        > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/t09.htm>
                        >
                        > BIRIFOR - 88
                        > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/allo012.htm> DOWNLOAD 300
                        > DPI IMAGE
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/s46.jpg>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/s45.htm>
                        >
                        > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/s47.htm>
                        >
                        > LOBI : GAOUA REGION - 88
                        > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/allo010.htm> DOWNLOAD 300
                        > DPI IMAGE
                        >
                        > D046
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        <http://kristhors.dk/images/ghana/Bush%20spirit%20KONTOMO%20shrine.jpg>
                        >
                        >
                        > http://kristhors.
                        >
                        <http://kristhors.dk/images/ghana/Bush%20spirit%20KONTOMO%20shrine.jpg>
                        > dk/images/ghana/Bush%20spirit%20KONTOMO%20shrine.jpg
                        > (Birifor, NW Ghana)
                        >
                        > http://kristhors.
                        > <http://kristhors.dk/images/ghana/> dk/images/ghana/
                        >
                        > http://kristhors. <http://kristhors.dk/blog/>
                        > dk/blog/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > <http://www.pbase.com/tontonpg/gaoua&page=2>
                        > img_3320.jpg
                        >
                        >
                        > 10-NOV-2004 -- Pascal Nardon [Gaoua, Lobi Country]
                        > --[culture
                        > undesignated]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > http://www.pbase.
                        > <http://www.pbase.com/tontonpg/image/36466607>
                        > com/tontonpg/image/36466607
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > One more good source for Lobi region imagery (as
                        > well as Dogon and some
                        > Mossi, Moba and Senufo images as well) can be viewed
                        > at http://www.geocitie
                        > <http://www.geocities.com/djembesorg/>
                        > s.com/djembesorg/ .
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > It will be interesting to see where the search for
                        > ideas about the
                        > identification of Bob's figure lead us -- whether
                        > toward or away from "Lobi
                        > country" or elsewhere.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Lee
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >




                        ____________________________________________________
                        On Yahoo!7
                        Fuel Price Watch: Find the cheapest petrol in your area
                        http://au.maps.yahoo.com/fuelwatch/
                      • drohrman
                        Given the post-independence stress in Ghana--indeed, West Africa generally, not to mention the rest of the continent---, the symbol maybe consistent with the
                        Message 11 of 14 , Oct 7, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Given the post-independence stress in Ghana--indeed, West Africa
                          generally, not to mention the rest of the continent---, the symbol
                          maybe consistent with the chains. William may be right that this
                          is "tourist" art, albeit a pretty massive purchase to ship. I think
                          it is too good to be a casual piece of sculpture for sale in the
                          Lagos airport. If this turns out, by the luckiest of chances, to be a
                          Vincent Kofi piece, it is likely quite valuable. The next step for
                          you Bob is to contact an expert in contemporary African art for
                          verification. Any ideas? there is a museum devoted to contemporary
                          African art in Amsterdam...I'd contact them with really good
                          photos...the Contemporary African Gallery on 108th and Riverside in
                          NY? Merton Simpson? is the Harmon Foundation still around?
                          Doug

                          --- In African_Arts@yahoogroups.com, William Klebous <klebous@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > 1) Though this might well be a coincidence, rather
                          > than a clue, the signature appears to be the
                          > symbol for anarchy...
                          >
                          > http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&q=anarchy%
                          20symbol&btnG=Google+Search&sa=N&tab=wi
                          >
                          > 2) Moss could support the idea that this is a
                          > relatively recent piece of folk/tourist art
                          > that has been kept outside since being imported...
                          >
                          >
                          > --- overthetopgallery <overthetopgallery@...>
                          > wrote:
                          >
                          > > Lee --- Doug, simply amazing! Thanks so much to
                          > > everyone.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Now to digest al the info ...
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > I've added a few more clearer photos; in Photos
                          > > under Bob's
                          > >
                          > http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/African_Arts/photos/browse/4067
                          > > details of
                          > > baby's ear, signature on bottom left of piece,
                          > > (looks like MVO with a line
                          > > though all the letters), the inside of head,
                          > > (insect-weather damage?)
                          > > paint/surface detail, detail of chain w/ live moss
                          > > still growing on it! The
                          > > figure is definitely squatting -- holding the child,
                          > > her knees are bent @ a
                          > > sharp angle behind the child's' back. A first I
                          > > thought she might be wearing
                          > > a robe but on more careful inspection I'd say not.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Thanks all for all the help & interest.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Bob
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > _____
                          > >
                          > > From: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                          > > [mailto:African_Arts@yahoogroups.com] On
                          > > Behalf Of LRubinstein@...
                          > > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:16 PM
                          > > To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Subject: Re: [African_Arts] Re: Can anyone identify
                          > > this piece?
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Bob:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > The figure you presented is stunning both in scale
                          > > and imagery. The
                          > > difficulty of determining its origin is equally
                          > > stunning in scale! I am
                          > > intrigued by numerous other suggestions of origin,
                          > > especially the Madagascan
                          > > and Caribbean ideas, which I appreciate as a
                          > > reminder not to delimit the
                          > > geographical search too soon, although the over-all
                          > > qualities of the piece
                          > > still make it worthwhile to consider the
                          > > possibilities within the region of
                          > > which I initially thought. Both the quality of the
                          > > wood and the scale of
                          > > the figure are suggestive of the need to explore
                          > > that region (and the
                          > > world). more fully for possible related figures. If
                          > > Doug, William -- or
                          > > anyone else -- has the time, energy, interest or
                          > > access to sources -- a
                          > > deeper exploration of related examples from those
                          > > regions would be most
                          > > welcome and appreciated.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > With regard to the figure itself, I am having
                          > > difficulty perceiving the
                          > > distinction -- if it exists -- between the smaller
                          > > and larger figure and
                          > > would like also to be able to look more closely at
                          > > the faces and ears. It
                          > > would be helpful to see some crisper images and
                          > > additional angles and
                          > > close-ups if that is possible. More information on
                          > > the metal chains and the
                          > > signature would be illuminating as well, as the
                          > > metalwork could offer
                          > > important clues as to where the object has been and
                          > > the signature may really
                          > > be a readable clue as to the identity of the maker.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Based on an initial visual impression, my initial
                          > > assumption regarding its
                          > > likely cultural origin was Lobi or thereabouts.
                          > > Consistent with my general
                          > > approach to such questions of identification and
                          > > attribution, I then look at
                          > > a map actually or mentally and draw a circle around
                          > > the geographical region
                          > > (or regions) that seems (seem) to me the most likely
                          > > geographical point(s)
                          > > of origin and make a mental note (or written list)
                          > > of related and contiguous
                          > > cultures as well as to cross-check migration and
                          > > inter-cultural histories of
                          > > groups in the area(s). In other words, I like to
                          > > cast as broad a net as
                          > > possible for resources that might contain clues
                          > > about the general form as
                          > > well as the features that an object displays so that
                          > > I can cross -reference
                          > > anomalous features such as -- in this case -- scale
                          > > or facial
                          > > characteristics that are inconsistent with
                          > > predominant stylistic elements of
                          > > a particular tradition or culture. In this regard,
                          > > it is often entirely
                          > > plausible that features and styles not generally
                          > > associated with a
                          > > particular tradition exist but are not so well
                          > > documented as better-known
                          > > (sometimes canonical) examples. I don't quickly
                          > > rule out other points of
                          > > origin nor do I assume that an object which does not
                          > > seem consistent with a
                          > > specific tradition (as I currently perceive that
                          > > tradition) do not possibly
                          > > suggest local, stylistic or symbolic variations
                          > > within that tradition. So
                          > > -- even though I am far from certain, I am focusing
                          > > my range of inquiry
                          > > right now on the area that occurred to me first.
                          > > Even if it is determined
                          > > that the figure in question originates elsewhere,
                          > > the information gathered
                          > > will provide important insights into instances where
                          > > the considerations are
                          > > relevant.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > The general form and the unfinished, unstained
                          > > surface of the wood were
                          > > among the features that suggested a "Lobi Country"
                          > > origin -- somewhere in
                          > > the culturally complex area where Ghana, Burkina
                          > > Faso and Cote d'Ivoire
                          > > touch upon one another. Seasonal economic
                          > > migrations among peoples in the
                          > > region -- particularly that of Burkinabe southward
                          > > for agricultural
                          > > employment -- add another dimension to the possible
                          > > sources of
                          > > inter-cultural influences. But prior to the
                          > > contemporary scene, historical
                          > > -- including folkloric -- data suggest an earlier
                          > > Ghanaian locality for the
                          > > Lobi population before their arrival in Burkina
                          > > Faso. So, both synchronic
                          > > and diachronic elements are suggestive of the need
                          > > to explore an expanded
                          > > (though still fairly limited) terrain to determine
                          > > the possible introduction
                          > > or presence of stylistic features not canonically
                          > > Lobi as well as to
                          > > consider the origin of the work from a different
                          > > point in that expanded
                          > > geographical terrain.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Even within the simplicity of their forms, Lobi (and
                          > > related) sculpted
                          > > figures do manifest a significant range of styles
                          > > from the more realistic to
                          > > the highly abstract (but no examples quite like this
                          > > one). Although it may
                          > > not necessarily be ultimately relevant to this
                          > > figure, I think it may be
                          > > helpful to look more closely at various available
                          > > images of Lobi figures.
                          > > Here are some that I have collected:
                          > > http://www.leoafric
                          > > <http://www.leoafricanus.net/LOBI_INDEX.html>
                          > > anus.net/LOBI_INDEX.html .
                          > > Then, there are thumbnails from Galerie Flak's
                          > > "Magie Lobi" exhibition from
                          > > 2004 and the accompanying texts that were generated
                          > > with that exhibition.
                          > >
                          > > First, the images:
                          > >
                          > > http://www.galerief
                          > > <http://www.galerieflak.com/expo/lobi/index4.html>
                          > > lak.com/expo/lobi/index4.html
                          > >
                          > > Then, the study which accompanied this exhibition
                          > > was written by Julien Bosc
                          > > and can be viewed at:
                          > >
                          > > Francais: http://perso.
                          > > <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob2.htm>
                          > > orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob2.htm
                          > >
                          > > English: http://perso.
                          > > <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob3.htm>
                          > > orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob3.htm
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > The Bosc site also offers links to very fine
                          > > articles relating to the Lobi
                          > > -- and many other cultures and traditions. One of
                          > > these is Claude-Henri
                          > > Pirat's "Lobi Statuary":
                          > >
                          > > Francais: http://perso.
                          > > <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/lobetud.htm>
                          > > orange.fr/africart/pages/lobetud.htm
                          > >
                          > > English: http://perso.
                          > > <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/lobetud.htm>
                          > > orange.fr/africart/pages/lobetud.htm
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > A link to other studies featured on the Julien Bosc
                          > > site can be found within
                          > > either of these linked pages above or at
                          > > http://perso.
                          > >
                          > <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etude.htm#lobi>
                          > > orange.fr/africart/pages/etude.htm#lobi
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > One of the most important revelations that these
                          > > images and texts reveal is
                          > > the general tendency in considering objects from
                          > > this region is prevalent
                          > > assumption of a solitary cultural presence -- the
                          > > Lobi. In fact, the Gaoua
                          > > region where many Lobi reside (and which, it has
                          > > been noted, is by no means
                          > > a static locality) includes a diverse and variously
                          > > related complex of
                          > > peoples. In addition to the Lobi are the Birifor --
                          > > whose practices and
                          > > forms are similar to those of the Lobi although
                          > > their language is different.
                          > > Then, too, there are the Dagara (Dagara Lobr and
                          > > Dagara Wile). Other groups
                          > > that have occupied the region include the Teesse
                          > > (Thuuna), and the Gan.
                          > > According to Bosc -- and as images below will
                          > > illustrate in the realm of
                          > > clay and wooden sculptures -- "it is difficult to
                          > > distinguish to distinguish
                          > > a real difference between Lobi and Birifor statuary,
                          > > while Dagara statuary
                          > > has little to do with either." (Source:
                          > > http://perso.
                          > > <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob3.htm>
                          > > orange.fr/africart/pages/etlob3.htm)
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Staying within the region, there is one image of a
                          > > maternity figure included
                          > > on the Bosc site that caught my eye although -- as
                          > > Vero reminds us -- the
                          > > maternity figure is a primary one with ever so many
                          > > variations throughout
                          > > essentially every tradition. The figure below, as
                          > > indicated on the site, is
                          > > of unknown specific origin although its topic and
                          > > range can apparently at
                          > > least be delimited to the form and culture complex
                          > > upon which we are
                          > > focusing at the moment:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/nouv25.htm>
                          > > cliquez pour retourner `
                          > > la page "objets 25"
                          > >
                          > > <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/mat1.htm>
                          > > retour ` la page
                          > > pricidente
                          > >
                          > > http://perso.
                          > > <http://perso.orange.fr/africart/pages/mat11.htm>
                          > > orange.fr/africart/pages/mat11.htm
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > To generate additional angles, perspectives,
                          > > insights on the question, I
                          > > encourage everyone to explore the significant array
                          > > of on-line images of
                          > > places, people and objects from the Gaoua region and
                          > > beyond. I hope a
                          > > viewing of these images will help develop a sense of
                          > > -- and some additional
                          > > ideas about -- the range and relationship between
                          > > Lobi and Birifor cultures
                          > > and forms and whether they bear any relation to the
                          > > figure in question, so I
                          > > have provided images and links to make this easily
                          > > possible. The first
                          > > three images below are from http://www.dogon-
                          > > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/lobialbum.htm>
                          > > lobi.ch/lobialbum.htm . (For those
                          > > wishing to focus specifically upon the Dogon, also
                          > > see the images at
                          > > http:www.dogon-lobi.ch and don't overlook the .pdf
                          > > text at http://www.dogon-
                          > > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/pdfeng.pdf>
                          > > lobi.ch/pdfeng.pdf .) Then, there is
                          > > an image from another source (links below image) on
                          > > the Birifor in Northwest
                          > > Ghana that illustrates the similarity of Lobi and
                          > > Birifor shrine figures.
                          > > Finally, there is one more image of a clay figure
                          > > identified as Lobi. From
                          > > what I have been able to uncover thus far, only the
                          > > clay sculptures of the
                          > > Lobi and Birifor seem to achieve the scale of the
                          > > figure Bob presented.
                          > > Again, though, I do not have access to some of the
                          > > major works on the Lobi
                          > > (Piet Meyer, Franco Scanzi...). Nonetheless, I
                          > > think these images -- and
                          > > the sites from which they come -- offer much good
                          > > information and many
                          > > spectacular images that help to inform the eye and
                          > > mind regarding regional
                          > > material culture.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/t05.jpg>
                          > >
                          > > BIRIFOR : REPRESENTATION OF LATE PRESIDENT SANKARA
                          > > - 88
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > http://www.dogon-
                          > > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/lobialbum.htm>
                          > > lobi.ch/lobialbum.htm
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/t08.jpg>
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/t07.htm>
                          > >
                          > > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/t09.htm>
                          > >
                          > > BIRIFOR - 88
                          > > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/allo012.htm> DOWNLOAD 300
                          > > DPI IMAGE
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/s46.jpg>
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/s45.htm>
                          > >
                          > > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/s47.htm>
                          > >
                          > > LOBI : GAOUA REGION - 88
                          > > <http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/allo010.htm> DOWNLOAD 300
                          > > DPI IMAGE
                          > >
                          > > D046
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > <http://kristhors.dk/images/ghana/Bush%20spirit%20KONTOMO%
                          20shrine.jpg>
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > http://kristhors.
                          > >
                          > <http://kristhors.dk/images/ghana/Bush%20spirit%20KONTOMO%
                          20shrine.jpg>
                          > > dk/images/ghana/Bush%20spirit%20KONTOMO%20shrine.jpg
                          > > (Birifor, NW Ghana)
                          > >
                          > > http://kristhors.
                          > > <http://kristhors.dk/images/ghana/> dk/images/ghana/
                          > >
                          > > http://kristhors. <http://kristhors.dk/blog/>
                          > > dk/blog/
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > <http://www.pbase.com/tontonpg/gaoua&page=2>
                          > > img_3320.jpg
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > 10-NOV-2004 -- Pascal Nardon [Gaoua, Lobi Country]
                          > > --[culture
                          > > undesignated]
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > http://www.pbase.
                          > > <http://www.pbase.com/tontonpg/image/36466607>
                          > > com/tontonpg/image/36466607
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > One more good source for Lobi region imagery (as
                          > > well as Dogon and some
                          > > Mossi, Moba and Senufo images as well) can be viewed
                          > > at http://www.geocitie
                          > > <http://www.geocities.com/djembesorg/>
                          > > s.com/djembesorg/ .
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > It will be interesting to see where the search for
                          > > ideas about the
                          > > identification of Bob's figure lead us -- whether
                          > > toward or away from "Lobi
                          > > country" or elsewhere.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Lee
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ____________________________________________________
                          > On Yahoo!7
                          > Fuel Price Watch: Find the cheapest petrol in your area
                          > http://au.maps.yahoo.com/fuelwatch/
                          >
                        • overthetopgallery
                          Doug, I agree -- I m too am leaning towards it being a contemporary piece ... there is something about the chain & signature/marking on the rear. I could be
                          Message 12 of 14 , Oct 8, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment

                            Doug, I agree -- I’m too am leaning towards it being a contemporary piece ... there is something about the chain & signature/marking on the rear.  I could be totally wrong... but ... it certainly was carved by a master... just who?  I don’t think it’s a piece of “tourist” art. Why? It’s just too well carved. The way the female sits on her haunches in perfect balance w/the child ... and the way the arms are so straight along the sides of the figure echoing the strong vertical up the center of the back ...etc.  I’ll start w/ Kofi as suggested... also check w/ CAG in NYC... I’ll keep you posted as to what I can find... The Lobi idea presented by Lee still has me thinking too --  well off to do more research ...

                            Thanks everyone for the feedback.

                            Bob


                            From: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com [mailto: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of drohrman
                            Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:45 AM
                            To: African_Arts@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [African_Arts] Re: Can anyone identify this piece?

                             

                            Given the post-independence stress in Ghana --indeed, West Africa
                            generally, not to mention the rest of the continent--- , the symbol
                            maybe consistent with the chains. William may be right that this
                            is "tourist" art, albeit a pretty massive purchase to ship. I think
                            it is too good to be a casual piece of sculpture for sale in the
                            Lagos airport. If this turns out, by the luckiest of chances, to be a
                            Vincent Kofi piece, it is likely quite valuable. The next step for
                            you Bob is to contact an expert in contemporary African art for
                            verification. Any ideas? there is a museum devoted to contemporary
                            African art in Amsterdam ... I'd contact them with really good
                            photos...the Contemporary African Gallery on 108th and Riverside in
                            NY? Merton Simpson? is the Harmon Foundation still around?
                            Doug

                            --- In African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com, William Klebous <klebous@... >
                            wrote:

                            >
                            > 1) Though this might well be a coincidence, rather
                            > than a clue, the signature appears to be the
                            > symbol for anarchy...
                            >
                            > http://images. google.com. au/images? hl=en&q=anarchy%
                            20symbol&btnG= Google+Search& sa=N&tab= wi
                            >
                            > 2) Moss could support the idea that this is a
                            > relatively recent piece of folk/tourist art
                            > that has been kept outside since being imported...
                            >
                            >
                            > --- overthetopgallery <overthetopgallery@ ...>
                            > wrote:
                            >
                            > > Lee --- Doug, simply amazing! Thanks so much to
                            > > everyone.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Now to digest al the info ...
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > I've added a few more clearer photos; in Photos
                            > > under Bob's
                            > >
                            > http://ph.groups. yahoo.com/ group/African_ Arts/photos/ browse/4067
                            > > details of
                            > > baby's ear, signature on bottom left of piece,
                            > > (looks like MVO with a line
                            > > though all the letters), the inside of head,
                            > > (insect-weather damage?)
                            > > paint/surface detail, detail of chain w/ live moss
                            > > still growing on it! The
                            > > figure is definitely squatting -- holding the child,
                            > > her knees are bent @ a
                            > > sharp angle behind the child's' back. A first I
                            > > thought she might be wearing
                            > > a robe but on more careful inspection I'd say not.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Thanks all for all the help & interest.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Bob
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > _____
                            > >
                            > > From: African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com
                            > > [mailto:African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com]
                            On
                            > > Behalf Of LRubinstein@ ...
                            > > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:16 PM
                            > > To: African_Arts@ yahoogroups. com
                            > > Subject: Re: [African_Arts] Re: Can anyone identify
                            > > this piece?
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Bob:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > The figure you presented is stunning both in scale
                            > > and imagery. The
                            > > difficulty of determining its origin is equally
                            > > stunning in scale! I am
                            > > intrigued by numerous other suggestions of origin,
                            > > especially the Madagascan
                            > > and Caribbean ideas, which I
                            appreciate as a
                            > > reminder not to delimit the
                            > > geographical search too soon, although the over-all
                            > > qualities of the piece
                            > > still make it worthwhile to consider the
                            > > possibilities within the region of
                            > > which I initially thought. Both the quality of the
                            > > wood and the scale of
                            > > the figure are suggestive of the need to explore
                            > > that region (and the
                            > > world). more fully for possible related figures. If
                            > > Doug, William -- or
                            > > anyone else -- has the time, energy, interest or
                            > > access to sources -- a
                            > > deeper exploration of related examples from those
                            > > regions would be most
                            > > welcome and appreciated.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > With regard to the figure itself, I am having
                            > > difficulty perceiving the
                            > > distinction -- if it exists -- between the smaller
                            > > and larger figure and
                            > > would like also to be able to look more closely at
                            > > the faces and ears. It
                            > > would be helpful to see some crisper images and
                            > > additional angles and
                            > > close-ups if that is possible. More information on
                            > > the metal chains and the
                            > > signature would be illuminating as well, as the
                            > > metalwork could offer
                            > > important clues as to where the object has been and
                            > > the signature may really
                            > > be a readable clue as to the identity of the maker.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Based on an initial visual impression, my initial
                            > > assumption regarding its
                            > > likely cultural origin was Lobi or thereabouts.
                            > > Consistent with my general
                            > > approach to such questions of identification and
                            > > attribution, I then look at
                            > > a map actually or mentally and draw a circle around
                            > > the geographical region
                            > > (or regions) that seems (seem) to me the most likely
                            > > geographical point(s)
                            > > of origin and make a mental note (or written list)
                            > > of related and contiguous
                            > > cultures as well as to cross-check migration and
                            > > inter-cultural histories of
                            > > groups in the area(s). In other words, I like to
                            > > cast as broad a net as
                            > > possible for resources that might contain clues
                            > > about the general form as
                            > > well as the features that an object displays so that
                            > > I can cross -reference
                            > > anomalous features such as -- in this case -- scale
                            > > or facial
                            > > characteristics that are inconsistent with
                            > > predominant stylistic elements of
                            > > a particular tradition or culture. In this regard,
                            > > it is often entirely
                            > > plausible that features and styles not generally
                            > > associated with a
                            > > particular tradition exist but are not so well
                            > > documented as better-known
                            > > (sometimes canonical) examples. I don't quickly
                            > > rule out other points of
                            > > origin nor do I assume that an object which does not
                            > > seem consistent with a
                            > > specific tradition (as I currently perceive that
                            > > tradition) do not possibly
                            > > suggest local, stylistic or symbolic variations
                            > > within that tradition. So
                            > > -- even though I am far from certain, I am focusing
                            > > my range of inquiry
                            > > right now on the area that occurred to me first.
                            > > Even if it is determined
                            > > that the figure in question originates elsewhere,
                            > > the information gathered
                            > > will provide important insights into instances where
                            > > the considerations are
                            > > relevant.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > The general form and the unfinished, unstained
                            > > surface of the wood were
                            > > among the features that suggested a "Lobi Country"
                            > > origin -- somewhere in
                            > > the culturally complex area where
                            w:st="on">Ghana , Burkina
                            > > Faso and Cote d'Ivoire
                            > > touch upon one another. Seasonal economic
                            > > migrations among peoples in the
                            > > region -- particularly that of Burkinabe southward
                            > > for agricultural
                            > > employment -- add another dimension to the possible
                            > > sources of
                            > > inter-cultural influences. But prior to the
                            > > contemporary scene, historical
                            > > -- including folkloric -- data suggest an earlier
                            > > Ghanaian locality for the
                            > > Lobi population before their arrival in Burkina
                            > > Faso. So, both synchronic
                            > > and diachronic elements are suggestive of the need
                            > > to explore an expanded
                            > > (though still fairly limited) terrain to determine
                            > > the possible introduction
                            > > or presence of stylistic features not canonically
                            > > Lobi as well as to
                            > > consider the origin of the work from a different
                            > > point in that expanded
                            > > geographical terrain.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Even within the simplicity of their forms, Lobi (and
                            > > related) sculpted
                            > > figures do manifest a significant range of styles
                            > > from the more realistic to
                            > > the highly abstract (but no examples quite like this
                            > > one). Although it may
                            > > not necessarily be ultimately relevant to this
                            > > figure, I think it may be
                            > > helpful to look more closely at various available
                            > > images of Lobi figures.
                            > > Here are some that I have collected:
                            > > http://www.leoafric
                            > > <http://www.leoafric anus.net/ LOBI_INDEX. html>
                            > > anus.net/LOBI_ INDEX.html .
                            > > Then, there are thumbnails from Galerie Flak's
                            > > "Magie Lobi" exhibition from
                            > > 2004 and the accompanying texts that were generated
                            > > with that exhibition.
                            > >
                            > > First, the images:
                            > >
                            > > http://www.galerief
                            > > <http://www.galerief lak.com/expo/ lobi/index4. html>
                            > > lak.com/expo/ lobi/index4. html
                            > >
                            > > Then, the study which accompanied this exhibition
                            > > was written by Julien Bosc
                            > > and can be viewed at:
                            > >
                            > > Francais: http://perso.
                            > > <http://perso. orange.fr/ africart/ pages/etlob2. htm>
                            > > orange.fr/africart/ pages/etlob2. htm
                            > >
                            > > English: http://perso.
                            > > <http://perso. orange.fr/ africart/ pages/etlob3. htm>
                            > > orange.fr/africart/ pages/etlob3. htm
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > The Bosc site also offers links to very fine
                            > > articles relating to the Lobi
                            > > -- and many other cultures and traditions. One of
                            > > these is Claude-Henri
                            > > Pirat's "Lobi Statuary":
                            > >
                            > > Francais: http://perso.
                            > > <http://perso. orange.fr/ africart/ pages/lobetud. htm>
                            > > orange.fr/africart/ pages/lobetud. htm
                            > >
                            > > English: http://perso.
                            > > <http://perso. orange.fr/ africart/ pages/lobetud. htm>
                            > > orange.fr/africart/ pages/lobetud. htm
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > A link to other studies featured on the Julien Bosc
                            > > site can be found within
                            > > either of these linked pages above or at
                            > > http://perso.
                            > >
                            > <http://perso. orange.fr/ africart/ pages/etude. htm#lobi>
                            > > orange.fr/africart/ pages/etude. htm#lobi
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > One of the most important revelations that these
                            > > images and texts reveal is
                            > > the general tendency in considering objects from
                            > > this region is prevalent
                            > > assumption of a solitary cultural presence -- the
                            > > Lobi. In fact, the Gaoua
                            > > region where many Lobi reside (and which, it has
                            > > been noted, is by no means
                            > > a static locality) includes a diverse and variously
                            > > related complex of
                            > > peoples. In addition to the Lobi are the Birifor --
                            > > whose practices and
                            > > forms are similar to those of the Lobi although
                            > > their language is different.
                            > > Then, too, there are the Dagara (Dagara Lobr and
                            > > Dagara Wile). Other groups
                            > > that have occupied the region include the Teesse
                            > > (Thuuna), and the Gan.
                            > > According to Bosc -- and as images below will
                            > > illustrate in the realm of
                            > > clay and wooden sculptures -- "it is difficult to
                            > > distinguish to distinguish
                            > > a real difference between Lobi and Birifor statuary,
                            > > while Dagara statuary
                            > > has little to do with either." (Source:
                            > > http://perso.
                            > > <http://perso. orange.fr/ africart/ pages/etlob3. htm>
                            > > orange.fr/africart/ pages/etlob3. htm)
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Staying within the region, there is one image of a
                            > > maternity figure included
                            > > on the Bosc site that caught my eye although -- as
                            > > Vero reminds us -- the
                            > > maternity figure is a primary one with ever so many
                            > > variations throughout
                            > > essentially every tradition. The figure below, as
                            > > indicated on the site, is
                            > > of unknown specific origin although its topic and
                            > > range can apparently at
                            > > least be delimited to the form and culture complex
                            > > upon which we are
                            > > focusing at the moment:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > <http://perso. orange.fr/ africart/ pages/nouv25. htm>
                            > > cliquez pour retourner `
                            > > la page "objets 25"
                            > >
                            > > <http://perso. orange.fr/ africart/ pages/mat1. htm>
                            > > retour ` la page
                            > > pricidente
                            > >
                            > > http://perso.
                            > > <http://perso. orange.fr/ africart/ pages/mat11. htm>
                            > > orange.fr/africart/ pages/mat11. htm
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > To generate additional angles, perspectives,
                            > > insights on the question, I
                            > > encourage everyone to explore the significant array
                            > > of on-line images of
                            > > places, people and objects from the Gaoua region and
                            > > beyond. I hope a
                            > > viewing of these images will help develop a sense of
                            > > -- and some additional
                            > > ideas about -- the range and relationship between
                            > > Lobi and Birifor cultures
                            > > and forms and whether they bear any relation to the
                            > > figure in question, so I
                            > > have provided images and links to make this easily
                            > > possible. The first
                            > > three images below are from http://www.dogon-
                            > > <http://www.dogon- lobi.ch/lobialbu m.htm>
                            > > lobi.ch/lobialbum. htm . (For those
                            > > wishing to focus specifically upon the Dogon, also
                            > > see the images at
                            > > http:www.dogon- lobi.ch and don't overlook the .pdf
                            > > text at http://www.dogon-
                            > > <http://www.dogon- lobi.ch/pdfeng. pdf>
                            > > lobi.ch/pdfeng. pdf .) Then, there is
                            > > an image from another source (links below image) on
                            > > the Birifor in Northwest
                            > > Ghana
                            that illustrates the similarity of Lobi and
                            > > Birifor shrine figures.
                            > > Finally, there is one more image of a clay figure
                            > > identified as Lobi. From
                            > > what I have been able to uncover thus far, only the
                            > > clay sculptures of the
                            > > Lobi and Birifor seem to achieve the scale of the
                            > > figure Bob presented.
                            > > Again, though, I do not have access to some of the
                            > > major works on the Lobi
                            > > (Piet Meyer, Franco Scanzi...). Nonetheless, I
                            > > think these images -- and
                            > > the sites from which they come -- offer much good
                            > > information and many
                            > > spectacular images that help to inform the eye and
                            > > mind regarding regional
                            > > material culture.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > <http://www.dogon- lobi.ch/t05. jpg>
                            > >
                            > > BIRIFOR : REPRESENTATION OF LATE PRESIDENT SANKARA
                            > > - 88
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > http://www.dogon-
                            > > <http://www.dogon- lobi.ch/lobialbu m.htm>
                            > > lobi.ch/lobialbum. htm
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > <http://www.dogon- lobi.ch/t08. jpg>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > <http://www.dogon- lobi.ch/t07. htm>
                            > >
                            > > <http://www.dogon- lobi.ch/t09. htm>
                            > >
                            > > BIRIFOR - 88
                            > > <http://www.dogon- lobi.ch/allo012. htm>
                            DOWNLOAD 300
                            > > DPI IMAGE
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > <http://www.dogon- lobi.ch/s46. jpg>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > <http://www.dogon- lobi.ch/s45. htm>
                            > >
                            > > <http://www.dogon- lobi.ch/s47. htm>
                            > >
                            > > LOBI : GAOUA REGION - 88
                            > > <http://www.dogon- lobi.ch/allo010. htm>
                            DOWNLOAD 300
                            > > DPI IMAGE
                            > >
                            > > D046
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > <http://kristhors. dk/images/ ghana/Bush% 20spirit% 20KONTOMO%
                            20shrine.jpg>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > http://kristhors.
                            > >
                            > <http://kristhors. dk/images/ ghana/Bush% 20spirit% 20KONTOMO%
                            20shrine.jpg>
                            > > dk/images/ghana/ Bush%20spirit% 20KONTOMO% 20shrine. jpg
                            > > (Birifor, NW Ghana )
                            > >
                            > > http://kristhors.
                            > > <http://kristhors. dk/images/ ghana/>
                            dk/images/ghana/
                            > >
                            > > http://kristhors. <
                            href="http://kristhors.dk/blog/">http://kristhors. dk/blog/>
                            > > dk/blog/
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > <http://www.pbase. com/tontonpg/ gaoua&page= 2>
                            > > img_3320.jpg
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > 10-NOV-2004 -- Pascal Nardon [Gaoua, Lobi Country]
                            > > --[culture
                            > > undesignated]
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > http://www.pbase.
                            > > <http://www.pbase. com/tontonpg/ image/36466607>
                            > > com/tontonpg/ image/36466607
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > One more good source for Lobi region imagery (as
                            > > well as Dogon and some
                            > > Mossi, Moba and Senufo images as well) can be viewed
                            > > at http://www.geocitie
                            > > <http://www.geocitie s.com/djembesorg />
                            > > s.com/djembesorg/ .
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > It will be interesting to see where the search for
                            > > ideas about the
                            > > identification of Bob's figure lead us -- whether
                            > > toward or away from "Lobi
                            > > country" or elsewhere.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Lee
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ____
                            > On Yahoo!7
                            > Fuel Price Watch: Find the cheapest petrol in your area
                            > http://au.maps. yahoo.com/ fuelwatch/
                            >

                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.