Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

One Challenge Accomplished

Expand Messages
  • lilinah-h
    While it was not originally my stated challenge, i have managed to translate into English 50+ recipes from a mid-15th c. Ottoman cookbook. These were the 85
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 5, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      While it was not originally my stated challenge, i have managed to translate into English 50+ recipes from a mid-15th c. Ottoman cookbook. These were the 85 recipes added by Muhammed bin Mahmud Shirvani, a physician to Sultan Murad II, to his translation of al-Baghdadi's cookbook into Eski Osmanli - note that Shirvani altered many of Baghdadi's recipes, for example, adding details about technique and changing some ingredients.

      I translated them from a translation into modern Turkish because i have not been able to find anyone to help me with the mid-15th c. Eski Osmanli which is VERY different from modern Turkish, and apparently close to 12th c. Seljuk. I realize translating a translation can create potential problems. But none of these recipes was available in English before i translated the ones included in a book in French, Stephane Yerasimos's A la table du Grand Turc, which i translated in its entirety around 2004 - he included about 2 dozen of Shirvani's recipes and i have wanted to know what they all were. I will admit that some of my translations are a bit rough, but i continue to work to refine them. I figure it is better to have imperfect translations then none at all.

      I didn't know Turkish when i started, but i've been learning some during this challenge. I enjoy translation projects. I have done several others, involving both European and Middle Eastern recipes.

      My stated challenge was to cook 50 recipes i hadn't cooked before. I'm about halfway through that one.

      Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)
      the persona formerly known as Anahita
    • Jacintha of Highland Foorde
      Way cool!. Will we be able to find them on the Goode Cookery website? ... -- Lady Jacintha of Highland Foorde Barony of Highland Foorde Youth Officer Maryland
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 5, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Way cool!. Will we be able to find them on the Goode Cookery website?


        On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 4:06 PM, <lilinah@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > While it was not originally my stated challenge, i have managed to
        > translate into English 50+ recipes from a mid-15th c. Ottoman cookbook.
        > These were the 85 recipes added by Muhammed bin Mahmud Shirvani, a
        > physician to Sultan Murad II, to his translation of al-Baghdadi's cookbook
        > into Eski Osmanli - note that Shirvani altered many of Baghdadi's recipes,
        > for example, adding details about technique and changing some ingredients.
        >
        > I translated them from a translation into modern Turkish because i have
        > not been able to find anyone to help me with the mid-15th c. Eski Osmanli
        > which is VERY different from modern Turkish, and apparently close to 12th
        > c. Seljuk. I realize translating a translation can create potential
        > problems. But none of these recipes was available in English before i
        > translated the ones included in a book in French, Stephane Yerasimos's A la
        > table du Grand Turc, which i translated in its entirety around 2004 - he
        > included about 2 dozen of Shirvani's recipes and i have wanted to know what
        > they all were. I will admit that some of my translations are a bit rough,
        > but i continue to work to refine them. I figure it is better to have
        > imperfect translations then none at all.
        >
        > I didn't know Turkish when i started, but i've been learning some during
        > this challenge. I enjoy translation projects. I have done several others,
        > involving both European and Middle Eastern recipes.
        >
        > My stated challenge was to cook 50 recipes i hadn't cooked before. I'm
        > about halfway through that one.
        >
        > Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)
        > the persona formerly known as Anahita
        >
        >



        --
        Lady Jacintha of Highland Foorde
        Barony of Highland Foorde Youth Officer
        Maryland Vice-Chancellor of Youth
        Kingdom of Atlantia
        Per fess argent and azure, a sprig of harebells azure slipped and leaved
        vert and a compass rose argent
        jacintha74@...

        * Nam in dando recipimus *
        * For it is in giving that we receive *
        * Francis of Assisi 1185-1226 *


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dee Cadoret
        That sounds interesting. Do you have plans on web publishing the recipes? O:-)
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 5, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          That sounds interesting. Do you have plans on web publishing the
          recipes? <wink, wink> <nudge, nudge> O:-)


          On 05/06/2013 4:06 PM, lilinah@... wrote:
          > While it was not originally my stated challenge, i have managed to translate into English 50+ recipes from a mid-15th c. Ottoman cookbook. These were the 85 recipes added by Muhammed bin Mahmud Shirvani, a physician to Sultan Murad II, to his translation of al-Baghdadi's cookbook into Eski Osmanli - note that Shirvani altered many of Baghdadi's recipes, for example, adding details about technique and changing some ingredients.
          >
          > I translated them from a translation into modern Turkish because i have not been able to find anyone to help me with the mid-15th c. Eski Osmanli which is VERY different from modern Turkish, and apparently close to 12th c. Seljuk. I realize translating a translation can create potential problems. But none of these recipes was available in English before i translated the ones included in a book in French, Stephane Yerasimos's A la table du Grand Turc, which i translated in its entirety around 2004 - he included about 2 dozen of Shirvani's recipes and i have wanted to know what they all were. I will admit that some of my translations are a bit rough, but i continue to work to refine them. I figure it is better to have imperfect translations then none at all.
          >
          > I didn't know Turkish when i started, but i've been learning some during this challenge. I enjoy translation projects. I have done several others, involving both European and Middle Eastern recipes.
          >
          > My stated challenge was to cook 50 recipes i hadn't cooked before. I'm about halfway through that one.
          >
          > Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)
          > the persona formerly known as Anahita
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Madame du Pont
          What a wonderful accomplishment!!!   Now to compile them and post them??? Cheers, Mme du Pont Stayner de Silk Chateau du Merry Swan Kingdome de Meridies  
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 6, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            What a wonderful accomplishment!!!   Now to compile them and post them???
            Cheers,
            Mme du Pont
            Stayner de Silk
            Chateau du Merry Swan
            Kingdome de Meridies


             
            "Gules, a swan naiant within a bordure argent" 


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Hillary
            With that many recipes translated, may want to consider publishing them. Could start by finding someone to review or edit your translations, as a
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 6, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              With that many recipes translated, may want to consider publishing them. Could start by finding someone to review or edit your translations, as a validation. Perhaps consider a Creative Anachronist booklet as a publication option - they would be willing to help you with the details if this is your first 'book'let.

              Congrats and good luck, Hillary

              --- In AandS50ChallengeCommunity@yahoogroups.com, lilinah@... wrote:
              >
              > While it was not originally my stated challenge, i have managed to translate into English 50+ recipes from a mid-15th c. Ottoman cookbook. These were the 85 recipes added by Muhammed bin Mahmud Shirvani, a physician to Sultan Murad II, to his translation of al-Baghdadi's cookbook into Eski Osmanli - note that Shirvani altered many of Baghdadi's recipes, for example, adding details about technique and changing some ingredients.
              >
              > I translated them from a translation into modern Turkish because i have not been able to find anyone to help me with the mid-15th c. Eski Osmanli which is VERY different from modern Turkish, and apparently close to 12th c. Seljuk. I realize translating a translation can create potential problems. But none of these recipes was available in English before i translated the ones included in a book in French, Stephane Yerasimos's A la table du Grand Turc, which i translated in its entirety around 2004 - he included about 2 dozen of Shirvani's recipes and i have wanted to know what they all were. I will admit that some of my translations are a bit rough, but i continue to work to refine them. I figure it is better to have imperfect translations then none at all.
              >
              > I didn't know Turkish when i started, but i've been learning some during this challenge. I enjoy translation projects. I have done several others, involving both European and Middle Eastern recipes.
              >
              > My stated challenge was to cook 50 recipes i hadn't cooked before. I'm about halfway through that one.
              >
              > Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)
              > the persona formerly known as Anahita
              >
            • lilinah-h
              I thank everyone for their encouragement and suggestions. Publishing (on my website or in a Compleat Anachronist) could be a little tricky, since the
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 6, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                I thank everyone for their encouragement and suggestions.

                Publishing (on my website or in a Compleat Anachronist) could be a little tricky, since the translations into modern Turkish are under copyright. If only i cold find someone who knows Eski Osmanli! Because i'm sure the original manuscript is not copyright protected and i have a CD of the original manuscript, thanks to Charles Perry. I can transliterate it - it's in the Ottoman form of the Persian form of the Arabic alif-ba - but i can't read it.

                Still, it may not be as problematic as my translation of Yerasimos's book. I tried to contact the French publisher multiple times to see if i could get permission to publish. I still believe the information in it would be of interest to speakers of English and i have no desire to violate copyright. To me, while the 2 dozen or so Ottoman recipes were great to have - and i have taught multiple classes cooking from them and did a whole Ottoman feast several years ago - the information in the book - about what different classes of Palace inhabitants ate, about the kitchens in the palace, about what was served at feasts and celebrations, and more - would be of interest to food historians. I have taught classes on the subject, using Yerasimos and a number of other books.

                I won't be at Pennsic this year or next; i'm saving my money for a trip to Bali in 2014 to perform with Gamelan Sekar Jaya. But i will test cook some my recently translated recipes in the Cooks camp at the West-An Tir War this year; i will likely teach some at the West Coast Culinary Symposium in Caid next year; and i'll probably at Pennsic in 2015, although i will be less ambitious than i was in 2012 - 4 hands-on cooking classes was quite a logistical challenge - so i'll limit it to 2 hands-on cooking classes and 2 lecture classes.

                Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)
                the personal formerly known as Anahita

                Dar Anahita
                http://home.earthlink.net/~lilinah/
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.