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Re: [AandS50ChallengeCommunity] Islamic garb, was Seeking Markus the Blue/ Suliman ibn Jafar

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  • Julie Washington
    Thanks for the response. I am a beginner at this stuff, but primarily I am interested in North Africa from Morocco to Egypt, any century(ies) that is period
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 15, 2011
      Thanks for the response. I am a beginner at this stuff, but primarily I am
      interested in North Africa from Morocco to Egypt, any century(ies) that is
      period for us.

      I have been looking for images (I know, very rare) of period women's garb
      that I could document and recreate as an A&S project. I'd like to find
      something cool that I could make and wear, but everything I've seen is
      either male, or just looks like a big length of cloth wrapped around the
      body -- not very practical for events.
      If you can point me to a specific region/time that fits that bill, I'd be
      grateful for the help.

      I'll check out your site.

      On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 6:51 PM, <lilinah@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > > I am interested in Islamic garb, too. Can you point me towards a link
      > > for the handout?
      > > --
      > > Julie Washington
      > > Jolicia atte Northclyfe
      > > Cleftlands MOAS
      >
      > The booklet to which Samia refers is not, to the best of my knowledge,
      > on-line, as it was printed in the early 1980s, shortly before the dawn of
      > WYSIWYG computers, the adorable little Mac in 1984.
      >
      > As for Islamic garb, that is a rather big topic.
      >
      > The Islamic time period extends from the first quarter of the 7th c. to
      > the end of SCA period, not quite 1,000 years.
      >
      > Geographically Dar al-Islam spans from the Atlantic coast of the Iberian
      > peninsula (now Spain & Portugal), North Africa, parts of sub-Saharan
      > Africa, parts of Italy and eastern Europe, to Southwest Asia, South Asia,
      > Central Asia, and parts of Southeast Asia. That's even more territory than
      > is covered by European garb :-)
      >
      > My website, Dar Anahita
      > http://home.earthlink.net/~lilinah/courtyard.html
      > has a bit of information about
      > - Maghribi and Andalusi clothing,
      > - Persian clothing and textiles,
      > - Ottoman clothing and textiles,
      > - Mamluk textile and costume items,
      > - textile fragments from Central Asia to al-Andalus,
      > and
      > - medieval Egyptian Knitting, which is the oldest known knitting.
      >
      > My site is not all inclusive and there there are time periods and cultures
      > i don't have on my website, such as Seljuk. But i can probably direct you
      > to sites that have what i lack.
      >
      > Samia specializes in Fatimid period stuff, which is primarily North
      > African/Egyptian from the beginning of the 10th century through the 3rd
      > quarter of the 12th c.
      > http://idlelion.blogspot.com/
      >
      > Perhaps a quick look can help you narrow down "Islamic garb" to the
      > clothing of one particular time or culture. Then we could direct you to
      > some more specific information.
      > --
      > al-Sayyida Urtatim al-Qurtubiyya bint 'abd al-Karim al-hakam al-Fassi
      >
      > Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
      >
      >



      --
      Julie Washington
      Jolicia atte Northclyfe
      Cleftlands MOAS

      "Women -- can't live with 'em, can't successfully refute their hypothesis."
      Howard Wolowitz, "The Big Bang Theory."


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • lilinah@earthlink.net
      Julie Washington ... Not really rare, although it s true, there are far more men. ... Sounds like Samia s Fatimid stuff and
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 15, 2011
        Julie Washington <washington.julie@...>
        >Thanks for the response. I am a beginner at this stuff, but primarily I am
        >interested in North Africa from Morocco to Egypt, any century(ies) that is
        >period for us.
        >
        > I have been looking for images (I know, very rare) of period women's garb

        Not really rare, although it's true, there are far more men.

        >that I could document and recreate as an A&S project. I'd like to find
        >something cool that I could make and wear, but everything I've seen is
        >either male, or just looks like a big length of cloth wrapped around the
        >body -- not very practical for events.
        >If you can point me to a specific region/time that fits that bill, I'd be
        >grateful for the help.

        Sounds like Samia's Fatimid stuff and al-Andalusi stuff is in the vicinity of what you're looking for.

        I'm not quite sure what you mean by "something cool". Is that, "cool", as in neato-shirito, or "cool" as in icicles.

        Male and female garments in the Arabic and Arabic-influenced worlds tend to be loose comfy tunics. Men and women wore the same garments for the most part, the greatest differentiation being footwear and headwear. There are surviving lawsuits in which a husband and wife go before a qadi to determine who gets to wear a particular tunic on a particular day.

        The tunics'll keep you as cool as any pre-14th c. European tunics. But being, well, baggy, they don't look cool (snap, snap) daddio. They are, however, quite practical for most events. Most of made of linen and wool. But for elegance you could use silk.

        After you look at Samia's site and my Andalusi stuff, you could also check out Mistress Violante's website
        http://www.moorishmaiden.org/
        Violante was laureled for her work on al-Andalus.


        Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
        the persona formerly known as Anahita
      • Susan
        Good morning Challengers! See this exchange below? Someone asked about a handout, Urtatim noted that it was older than dirt **and then said how she could help
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 16, 2011
          Good morning Challengers!

          See this exchange below? Someone asked about a handout, Urtatim noted that it was older than dirt **and then said how she could help the person find the info they wanted anyway**.

          THIS is "learning and sharing of our learning", people. Heck, she even created a website she's sharing, too. ;)

          Anyway, just wanted to stop in and say thank you for getting my morning off to a beautiful start.

          (And now I'm wondering what *I* can share today... hm...)

          Enjoy!
          Albreda








          > I am interested in Islamic garb, too. Can you point me towards a link
          > for the handout?
          > --
          > Julie Washington
          > Jolicia atte Northclyfe
          > Cleftlands MOAS

          The booklet to which Samia refers is not, to the best of my knowledge, on-line, as it was printed in the early 1980s, shortly before the dawn of WYSIWYG computers, the adorable little Mac in 1984.

          As for Islamic garb, that is a rather big topic.

          (Serious snippage)

          Perhaps a quick look can help you narrow down "Islamic garb" to the clothing of one particular time or culture. Then we could direct you to some more specific information.
          --
          al-Sayyida Urtatim al-Qurtubiyya bint 'abd al-Karim al-hakam al-Fassi

          Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • lilinah@earthlink.net
          ... I don t want there to be any misunderstanding, so let me note: I began Dar Anahita near the end of my first year in the SCA, in late 1999 (with a different
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 17, 2011
            Albreda wrote:
            > See this exchange below? Someone asked about a handout, Urtatim noted that
            > it was older than dirt **and then said how she could help the person find
            > the info they wanted anyway**.
            >
            > THIS is "learning and sharing of our learning", people. Heck, she even
            > created a website she's sharing, too. ;)

            I don't want there to be any misunderstanding, so let me note:

            I began Dar Anahita near the end of my first year in the SCA, in late 1999 (with a different ISP/URL). I saw a lack of information on early knitting (from Fatimid and/or Ayyubid and/or Mamluk Egypt) and on the clothing of my persona's birthplace, al-Andalus, so that's what i first put up, plus recipes and comments of feasts i cooked.

            I have been expanding it ever since. It now has sections on clothing and textiles from various times and places in the Near and Middle East, medieval Egyptian knitting, SCA-period food, and more. While most is on Near and Middle Eastern topics, the food section includes recipes from a number of cultures, plus papers on making a Fine Spice powder, SCA-period German language mushroom recipes, and other topics

            I just didn't want anyone to think i did all this work since the A&S 50 Challenge first began.

            Dar Anahita Front Door
            http://home.earthlink.net/~lilinah/

            Dar Anahita now occupies 5 URLs, as i keep expanding and using up my ISP's allotment for one single website. All are linked via the directory (i think, i hope).

            Someone sent me an e-mail that there was a broken link in my website. The web page it went to really does exist and is correctly linked other web pages, but the link was miswritten on one web page. However, i don't know on which web page the broken link was. So if anyone finds broken links within Dar Anahita, please let me know and include both the broken link AND the web page that broken link is on.

            I have around 150 separate web pages on my site, so it isn't necessarily easy for me to find one broken link.

            Links to websites not my own are a separate issue. I confess i do not check those links as often as i should to make sure they are still active. So i welcome any notice regarding broken links that lead off my site.Please include on which of my web pages you found the broken link(s). Thanks!

            --
            al-Sayyida Urtatim al-Qurtubiyya bint 'abd al-Karim al-hakam al-Fassi
            Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
          • Susan
            I just didn t want anyone to think i did all this work since the A&S 50 Challenge first began. Hi again - I certainly didn t expect that all of this was done
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 17, 2011
              I just didn't want anyone to think i did all this work since the A&S 50 Challenge first began.

              Hi again -


              I certainly didn't expect that all of this was done for or during A&S 50. Your having done the website is actually incidental to my point (although I did mention it). I'm just psyched that someone asked you for a link, and instead of just saying "so sorry, its out of print", you went the extra mile to help them locate the information they wanted.


              Everyone knows something about something - you saw someone who knew less than you, and you helped light their way. THIS was the part I loved. Having the answers to some of their questions on your own site was just the icing on an already very tasty cake. :)


              Enjoy!
              Albreda







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Sayyeda al-Kaslaania
              Hi Julie, I m catching up on email. Thankfully, images of women in Islamic cultures are only uncommon. I say it that way because I was lamenting to a friend
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 16, 2011
                Hi Julie,

                I'm catching up on email.

                Thankfully, images of women in Islamic cultures are only uncommon. I say
                it that way because I was lamenting to a friend who studies Pictish
                culture and she schooled me on what "rare" means. :)

                Here is a handout I recently updated on Middle Eastern garb.
                <https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5A0XA-vd3VHOTQzMjg0ZjYtMjQwYy00NGQxLTkyOWMtOWI0NDU4Njg2OTY0>

                I am a fan of Fatimid clothing. The Fatimids were in Egypt from
                969-1171. I like to say I do garb from 1066. ;) The thing about giant
                wraps is that it's exactly what women wore outside of the home through
                most of our period in the Middle East. Most of the women I've met who
                study Islamic garb in the SCA only wear their "indoor clothing" when
                they're at events. Typically this would be a tunic and undertunic,
                pants, headgear, optional coat, and one light wrap-- We're such hussies,
                I know. ;)

                Here's are images of me wearing all of that:
                http://idlelion.blogspot.com/2010/01/fatimid-embroidered-milhafa.html
                http://idlelion.blogspot.com/2010/01/50-not-food-six-and-seven-walnut-brown.html

                I hope that helps,
                Sayyeda al-Kaslaania


                On 11/15/2011 4:45 PM, Julie Washington wrote:
                > Thanks for the response. I am a beginner at this stuff, but primarily I am
                > interested in North Africa from Morocco to Egypt, any century(ies) that is
                > period for us.
                >
                > I have been looking for images (I know, very rare) of period women's garb
                > that I could document and recreate as an A&S project. I'd like to find
                > something cool that I could make and wear, but everything I've seen is
                > either male, or just looks like a big length of cloth wrapped around the
                > body -- not very practical for events.
                > If you can point me to a specific region/time that fits that bill, I'd be
                > grateful for the help.
                >
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