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Resource for on line learning and referencing question re 12th C name

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  • Diane
    Hi all, I found this website (http://scriptorium.english.cam.ac.uk/handwriting/) which has a self modulated course in reading medieval handwriting etc. I am
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 25, 2011
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      Hi all,
      I found this website (http://scriptorium.english.cam.ac.uk/handwriting/) which has a self modulated course in reading medieval handwriting etc.
      I am probably not the first of you to find it, but it seems like it could be a great resource for some peoples challenges.
      In case the link is deleted it is: scriptorium(dot)english(dot)cam(dot)ac(dot)uk/handwriting/

      I have set myself a project to document a good 12th Century Scottish name for the location where my Grandfather was born, using my own geneology as a starting point. As a result I have been looking to verify "Stewart/Steward as acceptable spelling/version for a 12th C Scottish name. The herald I have been talking to insists I should use "Stuart" and that this can be verified to 1429 which is "close enough for me". I have cut my submission down to 12 pages justifying the who/where/what/when/why. If there is anyone else who is interested in my 3-4 possible versions (latin, Local Norman/local approximation) I can send the file as word or PDF. I am happy to go a little later but 1429 is almost 300 years away from where I want to be.
      Does anybody have a primary/secondary source with good academic standing for an earlier version as my reading says "Stuart" was the French rework for Mary Queen of Scotts because they used no "W" at that time. Every website says this is true but where is the evidence?? I have a reference (translation from an 1140 Royal Charter) using "Siward". I cannot find any evidence that a woman of that period would have a first name/last name as we know it. A few men did, but women were always "of" "somewhere" or "some one".

      Lynlee


      Who?

      Chosen Name for general spoken informal introductions Claricia Steward (Daughter of William the Steward of Invernochtie)

      Since in the 12th Century the name was often translated by the writer but could also be phonetically spelled, therefore I could variously be known as:

      1) Norman French - Claricia fille de William de Dapifer de Invernochtie

      2) Latin: Claricia filia William dapiferus Invernochtie

      3) Local translation attempt: Clara ingen William Siward (de Invernochtie)
    • Andrea AskenDunn
      Hi! This is a cool resource! I sympathize with your name difficulties. I spent a lot of time researching mine, too, then had to modify it anyway, in order to
      Message 2 of 3 , Oct 26, 2011
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        Hi! This is a cool resource!
        I sympathize with your name difficulties. I spent a lot of time researching
        mine, too, then had to modify it anyway, in order to get it to pass the
        college of heralds.
        I do have a question. Would your father be called William in Norman French?
        Or some version of Guillaume?
        And probably even something different in Latin?
        (Oh no, Two names to research!)
        best of luck!
        Asther de Perpinya

        On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 7:53 PM, Diane <bahriah@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Hi all,
        > I found this website (http://scriptorium.english.cam.ac.uk/handwriting/)
        > which has a self modulated course in reading medieval handwriting etc.
        > I am probably not the first of you to find it, but it seems like it could
        > be a great resource for some peoples challenges.
        > In case the link is deleted it is:
        > scriptorium(dot)english(dot)cam(dot)ac(dot)uk/handwriting/
        >
        > I have set myself a project to document a good 12th Century Scottish name
        > for the location where my Grandfather was born, using my own geneology as a
        > starting point. As a result I have been looking to verify "Stewart/Steward
        > as acceptable spelling/version for a 12th C Scottish name. The herald I have
        > been talking to insists I should use "Stuart" and that this can be verified
        > to 1429 which is "close enough for me". I have cut my submission down to 12
        > pages justifying the who/where/what/when/why. If there is anyone else who is
        > interested in my 3-4 possible versions (latin, Local Norman/local
        > approximation) I can send the file as word or PDF. I am happy to go a little
        > later but 1429 is almost 300 years away from where I want to be.
        > Does anybody have a primary/secondary source with good academic standing
        > for an earlier version as my reading says "Stuart" was the French rework for
        > Mary Queen of Scotts because they used no "W" at that time. Every website
        > says this is true but where is the evidence?? I have a reference
        > (translation from an 1140 Royal Charter) using "Siward". I cannot find any
        > evidence that a woman of that period would have a first name/last name as we
        > know it. A few men did, but women were always "of" "somewhere" or "some
        > one".
        >
        > Lynlee
        >
        >
        > Who?
        >
        > Chosen Name for general spoken informal introductions Claricia Steward
        > (Daughter of William the Steward of Invernochtie)
        >
        > Since in the 12th Century the name was often translated by the writer but
        > could also be phonetically spelled, therefore I could variously be known as:
        >
        > 1) Norman French - Claricia fille de William de Dapifer de Invernochtie
        >
        > 2) Latin: Claricia filia William dapiferus Invernochtie
        >
        > 3) Local translation attempt: Clara ingen William Siward (de Invernochtie)
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Diane
        ... Men s names are SOO much easier to research. They signed more documents etc. It would appear that W was in use for the original Norman immigrants as there
        Message 3 of 3 , Oct 26, 2011
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          > I do have a question. Would your father be called William in Norman French?
          > Or some version of Guillaume?
          > And probably even something different in Latin?
          > (Oh no, Two names to research!)
          > best of luck!
          > Asther de Perpinya

          Men's names are SOO much easier to research. They signed more documents etc. It would appear that W was in use for the original Norman immigrants as there were many Williams and Walters. I would like to know when the French ceased using W and when they re-introduced it, as this could be the hinge I need.

          I put a file on Yahoo group 12th C clothing as well. This was a book based on a PhD thesis into 12thC Anglo-Norman women of power and records many of them with primary source documents. Not a single "last name" among them all "OF...." (place/father/husband etc)

          Claricia (Mumbele mumble something or other)
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