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Re: Elf Ears

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  • Marti Livingstone
    I apologize if this got sent to the list twice. Catriona On Jul 26, 2010, at 10:02 AM, ... The gentleman s full name is Duke Syr Master Laurelen Darksbane. His
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 26 8:03 AM
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      I apologize if this got sent to the list twice.
      Catriona

      On Jul 26, 2010, at 10:02 AM,
      AandS50ChallengeCommunity@yahoogroups.com wrote:

      > Well, I don't know about pictures but I do remember distinctly that
      > Duke Sir Lauralen (I'm sure I got that spelling wrong) Baron
      > Cleftlands' wife/Baroness was sporting pointy ears at Cleftlands
      > Decenial event. Can't say whether that was a mundane thing or part
      > of her persona. [...]

      > A few years after that a friend of mine was physically threatened
      > for wearing ears to an event. He never came back to the SCA.
      >
      > Aelfwyn

      The gentleman's full name is Duke Syr Master Laurelen Darksbane. His
      wife is Duchess Ithrilliel of Silverlake. Both names certainly are
      more than a nod to the Elven influence in the early SCA. He and she
      were the founding B&B of Cleftlands in 1978. So their names would have
      been chosen in the misty haze of the long ago. I, too, remember the
      Duke wearing pointy ears at events I attended in the mid 80's when I
      first joined.

      I also remember there being a bounty offered on elf ears at several
      Pennsics in the early to mid 90's. Whether the threat was real or not
      I don't know, but there was certainly talk and concern from the
      populace. I do remember the animosity of certain people who were anti-
      Elf toward those wearing Elven ears, fantasy inspired garb, or
      sporting a fantasy based persona. It was rather like the animosity
      shown by certain PC users when I say I use a Mac and am happy with it,
      thank you very much ;-) Rather rabid and off putting.

      Catriona
      (Who joined in 1984-ish and lives in the Northern Oaken Region,
      Midrealm)

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Johnna Holloway
      I joined the Society in August 1973 in what was then the Shire of Wurm Wald (University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, the second group in Illinois at the
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 26 8:36 AM
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        I joined the Society in August 1973 in what was then the Shire of Wurm
        Wald
        (University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, the second group in
        Illinois at the time).
        I don't remember elf ears but I do know that the group was heavily
        into Science Fiction.

        I would fancy that the emergence of the Dark Horde was a bigger
        political and worrying factor than looking for elves.

        Johnnae
      • Ted Eisenstein
        ... Heh. Didn t the very first Middle Crown Tourney take place at an science fiction convention in Chicago? ... Still is even without elves, according to some
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 26 10:57 AM
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          >I don't remember elf ears but I do know that the group was heavily
          >into Science Fiction.
          Heh. Didn't the very first Middle Crown Tourney take place at an
          science fiction convention in Chicago?

          >I would fancy that the emergence of the Dark Horde was a bigger
          >political and worrying factor than looking for elves.
          Still is even without elves, according to some friends of mine with
          equally long memories....

          Alban
        • Kihe Blackeagle
          ... These are not the Mongols you are looking for - the Mongols you are looking for are over there, carrying off your women and goods. Yet another example of
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 26 12:32 PM
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            > >I don't remember elf ears but I do know that the group was heavily
            > >into Science Fiction.
            > Heh. Didn't the very first Middle Crown Tourney take place at an
            > science fiction convention in Chicago?
            >
            > >I would fancy that the emergence of the Dark Horde was a bigger
            > >political and worrying factor than looking for elves.
            > Still is even without elves, according to some friends of mine with
            > equally long memories....
            >
            > Alban



            "These are not the Mongols you are looking for - the Mongols you are looking for are over there, carrying off your women and goods."


            Yet another example of cross-cultural exchange in action - and not just with SF&F material:



            "A Mongol on the roof - a MOST disturbing sight!"

            Adieu, Amra / ttfn - Mike / Pax ... Kihe

            Mike C. Baker / Kihe Blackeagle
            Opinions? I'm FULL of 'em
            SCA: al-Sayyid Amr ibn Majid al-Bakri al-Amra, F.O.B, OSCA
            "Other": Reverend Kihe Blackeagle PULC (the DreamSinger Bard)
            alt. e-mail: KiheBard@...
            Buy my writings!: http://www.lulu.com/WizardsDen
            http://www.livejournal.com/users/kihebard/

            _________________________________________________________________
            The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
            http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Avacyn
            When I got into the SCA, back when God was pup, a lot of SCA people were inexplicably but mostly somewhat subtly, doing GOR stuff. (If you haven t read any of
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 26 1:53 PM
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              When I got into the SCA, back when God was pup, a lot of SCA people
              were inexplicably but mostly somewhat subtly, doing GOR stuff. (If you
              haven't read any of these books, I don't recommend them. They are about
              how women only found true happiness through being made to wear a collar,
              raped and calling a man Master.) I never got the attraction myself. I
              saw elf ears at the one and only Pennsic I've ever made it to. But I
              never saw anyone on the throne with them. SF and fantasy type stuff was
              mostly dying out by then. I do remember people with monk personnas
              blessing people who asked, but they tended to be trying to keep their
              personnas within historical context.
              Avacyn, who can document her name as being Lowland German and means "elf
              kin" or "elf cousin". I don't have to document elves, only that the
              Dutch and German believed in them.
              >> I don't remember elf ears but I do know that the group was heavily
              >> into Science Fiction.
              > Heh. Didn't the very first Middle Crown Tourney take place at an
              > science fiction convention in Chicago?
              >
              >> I would fancy that the emergence of the Dark Horde was a bigger
              >> political and worrying factor than looking for elves.
              > Still is even without elves, according to some friends of mine with
              > equally long memories....
              >
              > Alban
            • Christine Taylor
              Oh my yes -- my 12th century English persona not only believes in elves, SHE HATES THEM. The little buggers live in her fields and shoot their nasty poisoned
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 26 3:10 PM
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                Oh my yes -- my 12th century English persona not only believes in elves, SHE
                HATES THEM. The little buggers live in her fields and shoot their nasty
                poisoned elf arrows at man and beast.

                We have written charms coming down from that time to heal elf-arrow poison
                -- said charms to be administered by the local parish priest. I am not
                kidding. Tolkien elves they were not!

                Caitlin

                Caitlin Christiana Wintour, OL
                Ad augusta per angusta (To high places by narrow roads)



                -----Original Message-----
                From: AandS50ChallengeCommunity@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:AandS50ChallengeCommunity@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Avacyn
                Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:53 PM
                To: AandS50ChallengeCommunity@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [AandS50ChallengeCommunity] Re: Elf Ears


                Avacyn, who can document her name as being Lowland German and means "elf
                kin" or "elf cousin". I don't have to document elves, only that the
                Dutch and German believed in them.
              • Amy Shuman
                ... That s fascinating. I would be very interested in those charms. Do you have any more information on them? As a tangent, Ylf (from which we get elf) and
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 27 8:45 AM
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                  > We have written charms coming down from that time to heal
                  > elf-arrow poison
                  > -- said charms to be administered by the local parish
                  > priest. I am not
                  > kidding. Tolkien elves they were not!
                  >
                  > Caitlin

                  That's fascinating. I would be very interested in those charms. Do you have any more information on them?

                  As a tangent, 'Ylf' (from which we get 'elf) and 'Orc' are both anglo-saxon words for 'monster'. Tolkien was an anglo-saxon scholar after all and the anglo-saxons had a lot of words for monster.

                  Aelwfyn
                  (yes, it means 'elf friend'. It was the first herald-passable name I chose and I've been using it too long to change it now.)
                • Christine Taylor
                  Certainly! Order Popular Religion in Late Saxon England: Elf Charms in Context by Karen Louise Jolly. Terrific book. Caitlin Caitlin Christiana Wintour, OL
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 27 11:15 AM
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                    Certainly! Order "Popular Religion in Late Saxon England: Elf Charms in
                    Context" by Karen Louise Jolly. Terrific book.

                    Caitlin

                    Caitlin Christiana Wintour, OL
                    Ad augusta per angusta (To high places by narrow roads)


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: AandS50ChallengeCommunity@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:AandS50ChallengeCommunity@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amy Shuman
                    Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 8:45 AM
                    To: AandS50ChallengeCommunity@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [AandS50ChallengeCommunity] Historic Elves (not just SCA history)


                    > We have written charms coming down from that time to heal
                    > elf-arrow poison
                    > -- said charms to be administered by the local parish
                    > priest. I am not
                    > kidding. Tolkien elves they were not!
                    >
                    > Caitlin

                    That's fascinating. I would be very interested in those charms. Do you have
                    any more information on them?

                    As a tangent, 'Ylf' (from which we get 'elf) and 'Orc' are both anglo-saxon
                    words for 'monster'. Tolkien was an anglo-saxon scholar after all and the
                    anglo-saxons had a lot of words for monster.

                    Aelwfyn
                    (yes, it means 'elf friend'. It was the first herald-passable name I chose
                    and I've been using it too long to change it now.)





                    ------------------------------------

                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • Avacyn
                    The Lucnunga Manuscript has several of the charms. Look up Leechcraft: Early English Charms, Plantlore and Healing by Stephen Pollington. The book has
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jul 27 1:19 PM
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                      The Lucnunga Manuscript has several of the charms. Look up
                      Leechcraft: Early English Charms, Plantlore and Healing by Stephen
                      Pollington. The book has translations of several manuscripts and bits
                      of manuscripts. There you'll find many anti- elf and dwarf charms.
                      Avacyn Gericsdocther
                      >> We have written charms coming down from that time to heal
                      >> elf-arrow poison
                      >> -- said charms to be administered by the local parish
                      >> priest. I am not
                      >> kidding. Tolkien elves they were not!
                      >>
                      >> Caitlin
                      > That's fascinating. I would be very interested in those charms. Do you have any more information on them?
                      >
                      > As a tangent, 'Ylf' (from which we get 'elf) and 'Orc' are both anglo-saxon words for 'monster'. Tolkien was an anglo-saxon scholar after all and the anglo-saxons had a lot of words for monster.
                      >
                      > Aelwfyn
                      > (yes, it means 'elf friend'. It was the first herald-passable name I chose and I've been using it too long to change it now.)
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Christine Taylor
                      I just love it. One of the reasons I have the persona that I do -- early 12th century Northumbrian -- is all the great legends about elves and dwarves. The
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jul 27 1:41 PM
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                        I just love it. One of the reasons I have the persona that I do -- early
                        12th century Northumbrian -- is all the great legends about elves and
                        dwarves. The legends ran rampant in the remote Cheviot Hills and they
                        certainly believed them. Who am I to say there wasn't something to believe?
                        There are a lot of strange things in this world.

                        BTW, I wrote a poem about an old legend of a dwarf that tried to get humans
                        to walk over a cliff. It's here if you are interested:
                        http://caitlinsjourney.com/?p=56

                        Caitlin


                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: AandS50ChallengeCommunity@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:AandS50ChallengeCommunity@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Avacyn
                        Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 1:20 PM
                        To: AandS50ChallengeCommunity@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [AandS50ChallengeCommunity] Historic Elves (not just SCA
                        history)

                        The Lucnunga Manuscript has several of the charms. Look up
                        Leechcraft: Early English Charms, Plantlore and Healing by Stephen
                        Pollington. The book has translations of several manuscripts and bits
                        of manuscripts. There you'll find many anti- elf and dwarf charms.
                        Avacyn Gericsdocther
                        >> We have written charms coming down from that time to heal
                        >> elf-arrow poison
                        >> -- said charms to be administered by the local parish
                        >> priest. I am not
                        >> kidding. Tolkien elves they were not!
                        >>
                        >> Caitlin
                        > That's fascinating. I would be very interested in those charms. Do you
                        have any more information on them?
                        >
                        > As a tangent, 'Ylf' (from which we get 'elf) and 'Orc' are both
                        anglo-saxon words for 'monster'. Tolkien was an anglo-saxon scholar after
                        all and the anglo-saxons had a lot of words for monster.
                        >
                        > Aelwfyn
                        > (yes, it means 'elf friend'. It was the first herald-passable name I chose
                        and I've been using it too long to change it now.)
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                        ------------------------------------

                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • Brighid AKA Brenda
                        I found these articles online: Jolly s translations of the Lucnunga Manuscript are available here: http://www2.hawaii.edu/~kjolly/unc.htm
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jul 28 8:08 PM
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                          I found these articles online:



                          Jolly's translations of the Lucnunga Manuscript are available here:

                          http://www2.hawaii.edu/~kjolly/unc.htm



                          http://journal.oraltradition.org/files/articles/19i/Garner.pdf

                          Anglo-Saxon Charms in Performance



                          http://www.alarichall.org.uk/bibliog.php

                          Alaric Hall's bibliography with links to his articles, many of which are on elves; he also wrote "Elves in
                          Anglo-Saxon England: Matters of Belief, Health, Gender and Identity", which is an expansion of his PhD thesis, available here:

                          https://dspace.gla.ac.uk/handle/1905/607





                          On charms in general:



                          http://www.folklore.ee/folklore/vol24/engcharm.pdf



                          English Orature,
                          English Literature: The Case of Charms



                          http://journal.oraltradition.org/files/articles/7i/9_olsan.pdf



                          Latin
                          Charms of Medieval England: Verbal Healing in a Christian Oral Tradition





                          http://isfnr.org/files/toptransl7.pdf
                          Charm
                          Indexes: Problems and Perspectives








                          http://www.ceeol.com/aspx/issuedetails.aspx?issueid=31fd07ff-e241-4893-9611-ea0a39def67d
                          Towards a Poetics Rhetorics and Proxemics of Verbal
                          Charms (it's one of the articles listed here, and it's an automatic
                          download if you click on "view")






                          http://www.wizros.com/SCA_Docs/Anglo-Saxon%20Charms.doc

                          "Anglo-Saxon Charms" by THL Ivegard (Artemesia) Has lots of links of
                          interest, including on Anglo-Saxon translations of herbariums

                          NOTE: URL is an automatic download; if you want to see it as HTML (without pictures) go here:

                          http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JYIhXF73VFoJ:wizros.com/SCA_Docs/Anglo-Saxon%2520Charms.doc+English+Verbal+Charms&cd=43&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca



                          http://www.celt.dias.ie/publications/celtica/c25/c25-251-254.pdf



                          A Charm
                          for Staunching Blood



                          http://www.folklore.ee/Folklore/vol9/roper.htm



                          Charms, Change
                          and Memory: Some Principles Underlying Variation



                          http://etd.lib.fsu.edu/theses/available/etd-09182003-171232/



                          The
                          Indexing of Medieval Women: The Feminine Tradition of Medical Wisdom in
                          Anglo-Saxon England and the Metrical Charms



                          http://journal.oraltradition.org/files/articles/14ii/7_olsan.pdf



                          The
                          Inscription of Charms in Anglo-Saxon Manuscripts



                          http://sarumseminar.org/meetings/2003-03-Mittman-Headless-Men-and-Hungry-Monsters.pdf
                          Headless
                          men and hungry monsters







                          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1081785/pdf/medhist00110-0088.pdf
                          Magical Medicine
                          in Viking Scandinavia







                          http://www.arts.usyd.edu.au/departments/medieval/saga/pdf/335-mitchell.pdf



                          Learning
                          Magic in the Sagas




                          Brígiða
                          Vadesbana
                          http://ooo-shiiiny.livejournal.com/
                          http://brigidavadesbana.blogspot.com/







                          Mortimer Wheeler's best-known line was that archaeologists
                          dig up people not things. He meant that we ought to go beyond the object to
                          consider the person who once used it ... Holding a Roman ear-scoop we should try to visualize whose
                          ear it had last seen the inside of before its long lie-in. In my case, all
                          Romans turn into Charles Laughton, medievals into Max von Sydow, and
                          prehistorics into embarrassed-looking extras from a BBC reconstruction of life
                          at the time of Stonehenge, but there you go. ~Peter Ellis

                          _________________________________________________________________
                          Learn more ways to connect with your buddies now
                          http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734388

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Christine Taylor
                          Wonderful, thank you! I m fascinated by the elves in my persona history. And as a Christian I am so interested in the odd historical melding of magic and
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jul 29 6:54 AM
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                            Wonderful, thank you! I'm fascinated by the "elves" in my persona history.
                            And as a Christian I am so interested in the odd historical melding of magic
                            and faith of the Anglo-Saxon period. Well, "odd" to us today -- then it was
                            not so strange at all.

                            Caitlin

                            Caitlin Christiana Wintour, OL
                            Ad augusta per angusta (To high places by narrow roads)



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: AandS50ChallengeCommunity@yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:AandS50ChallengeCommunity@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brighid AKA
                            Brenda
                            Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 8:08 PM
                            To: aands50challengecommunity@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [AandS50ChallengeCommunity] Historic Elves (not just SCA
                            history)


                            I found these articles online:



                            Jolly's translations of the Lucnunga Manuscript are available here:

                            http://www2.hawaii.edu/~kjolly/unc.htm



                            http://journal.oraltradition.org/files/articles/19i/Garner.pdf

                            Anglo-Saxon Charms in Performance



                            http://www.alarichall.org.uk/bibliog.php

                            Alaric Hall's bibliography with links to his articles, many of which are on
                            elves; he also wrote "Elves in
                            Anglo-Saxon England: Matters of Belief, Health, Gender and Identity", which
                            is an expansion of his PhD thesis, available here:

                            https://dspace.gla.ac.uk/handle/1905/607





                            On charms in general:



                            http://www.folklore.ee/folklore/vol24/engcharm.pdf



                            English Orature,
                            English Literature: The Case of Charms



                            http://journal.oraltradition.org/files/articles/7i/9_olsan.pdf



                            Latin
                            Charms of Medieval England: Verbal Healing in a Christian Oral Tradition





                            http://isfnr.org/files/toptransl7.pdf
                            Charm
                            Indexes: Problems and Perspectives








                            http://www.ceeol.com/aspx/issuedetails.aspx?issueid=31fd07ff-e241-4893-9611-
                            ea0a39def67d
                            Towards a Poetics Rhetorics and Proxemics of Verbal
                            Charms (it's one of the articles listed here, and it's an automatic
                            download if you click on "view")






                            http://www.wizros.com/SCA_Docs/Anglo-Saxon%20Charms.doc

                            "Anglo-Saxon Charms" by THL Ivegard (Artemesia) Has lots of links of
                            interest, including on Anglo-Saxon translations of herbariums

                            NOTE: URL is an automatic download; if you want to see it as HTML (without
                            pictures) go here:

                            http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JYIhXF73VFoJ:wizros.com
                            /SCA_Docs/Anglo-Saxon%2520Charms.doc+English+Verbal+Charms&cd=43&hl=en&ct=cl
                            nk&gl=ca



                            http://www.celt.dias.ie/publications/celtica/c25/c25-251-254.pdf



                            A Charm
                            for Staunching Blood



                            http://www.folklore.ee/Folklore/vol9/roper.htm



                            Charms, Change
                            and Memory: Some Principles Underlying Variation



                            http://etd.lib.fsu.edu/theses/available/etd-09182003-171232/



                            The
                            Indexing of Medieval Women: The Feminine Tradition of Medical Wisdom in
                            Anglo-Saxon England and the Metrical Charms



                            http://journal.oraltradition.org/files/articles/14ii/7_olsan.pdf



                            The
                            Inscription of Charms in Anglo-Saxon Manuscripts



                            http://sarumseminar.org/meetings/2003-03-Mittman-Headless-Men-and-Hungry-Mon
                            sters.pdf
                            Headless
                            men and hungry monsters







                            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1081785/pdf/medhist00110-0088.pd
                            f
                            Magical Medicine
                            in Viking Scandinavia







                            http://www.arts.usyd.edu.au/departments/medieval/saga/pdf/335-mitchell.pdf



                            Learning
                            Magic in the Sagas




                            Brígiða
                            Vadesbana
                            http://ooo-shiiiny.livejournal.com/
                            http://brigidavadesbana.blogspot.com/







                            Mortimer Wheeler's best-known line was that archaeologists
                            dig up people not things. He meant that we ought to go beyond the object to
                            consider the person who once used it ... Holding a Roman ear-scoop we should
                            try to visualize whose
                            ear it had last seen the inside of before its long lie-in. In my case, all
                            Romans turn into Charles Laughton, medievals into Max von Sydow, and
                            prehistorics into embarrassed-looking extras from a BBC reconstruction of
                            life
                            at the time of Stonehenge, but there you go. ~Peter Ellis

                            _________________________________________________________________
                            Learn more ways to connect with your buddies now
                            http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734388

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                            ------------------------------------

                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • AlbredaA@aol.com
                            Holy Hannah, Brigitha - That is the *motherload* of charms links! Thank you! Albreda, who has stashed it in her really cool - must read file [Non-text
                            Message 13 of 13 , Jul 30 10:10 PM
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                              Holy Hannah, Brigitha -

                              That is the *motherload* of charms links!

                              Thank you!
                              Albreda, who has stashed it in her 'really cool - must read file'


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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