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Re: [AandS50ChallengeCommunity] Brainstorm coming!

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  • Silly String
    ... Perhaps a wiki based system would allow communal updating of resources. I find that wikis are an excellent way for groups to collate knowledge into
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 31, 2009
      On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Albreda Aylese <AlbredaA@...> wrote:
      > I'm wondering how you all think this might work best; should it all
      > go in a database (and if so, how should it be set up?), or should we
      > just keep a list of who the 'go-to' person is for each subject,
      > or ...?

      Perhaps a wiki based system would allow communal updating of
      resources. I find that wikis are an excellent way for groups to
      collate knowledge into something useful if they have a few people who
      help keep things organized and on track. One thing that we may
      consider is to begin to pool the collection of projects and data on an
      existing SCA community resource, such as the Cunnan Wiki at
      http://cunnan.sca.org.au/wiki/Main_Page . Cunnan may even consider
      hosting a section for A&S 50 if we ask nicely and promise to add our
      goodies to their knowledge base.

      - Helene
    • Verena Entenwirt
      I love Wikis, and I have used often visited Cunnan s site before (especially when I moved Kingdoms, to learn the new slange). I think a Wikki would be a great
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 1, 2009
        I love Wikis, and I have used often visited Cunnan's site before (especially
        when I moved Kingdoms, to learn the new slange).

        I think a Wikki would be a great idea.

        -Verena

        On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 11:42 PM, Silly String <sillystring13@...>wrote:

        > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Albreda Aylese <AlbredaA@...<AlbredaA%40aol.com>>
        > wrote:
        > > I'm wondering how you all think this might work best; should it all
        > > go in a database (and if so, how should it be set up?), or should we
        > > just keep a list of who the 'go-to' person is for each subject,
        > > or ...?
        >
        > Perhaps a wiki based system would allow communal updating of
        > resources. I find that wikis are an excellent way for groups to
        > collate knowledge into something useful if they have a few people who
        > help keep things organized and on track. One thing that we may
        > consider is to begin to pool the collection of projects and data on an
        > existing SCA community resource, such as the Cunnan Wiki at
        > http://cunnan.sca.org.au/wiki/Main_Page . Cunnan may even consider
        > hosting a section for A&S 50 if we ask nicely and promise to add our
        > goodies to their knowledge base.
        >
        > - Helene
        >
        >
        >



        --
        Lady Verena Entenwirth


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • AlbredaA@aol.com
        Wow folks - I was actually asking for suggestions on how best to set up a the database form on our Yahoo site, but talking about different types of programs
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 1, 2009
          Wow folks -

          I was actually asking for suggestions on how best to set up a the database
          form on our Yahoo site, but talking about different types of programs
          altogether is certainly an option worth exploring! I don't know anything about other
          programs, so I don't know how easy it would be for multiple users to input
          info, or how easy it would be to access, or how hard to maintain.

          So, before we get ahead of ourselves, can anyone propose a set-up for using
          the database option in the Yahoo site that would accomplish our goals (namely
          ease of input, access, and ability to store lots of links and resources on
          various topics)? If we CANNOT come up with a system that would work on the
          software we have, THEN I think it would make sense to look more seriously at
          other options, but if what we have would work, that might be more effort than we
          need to extend, yes? (If I'm wrong, please tell me!)

          Albreda
          **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.
          (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://www.dell.com/co
          ntent/products/features.aspx/laptops_great_deals?c=us%26cs=19%26l=en%26s=d
          hs%26~ck=anavml)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Silly String
          ... Actually, that is why I brought up the Cunnan wiki - its already in service and may be an extendable resource. At the very least we can use it to pool
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 2, 2009
            On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 7:52 PM, <AlbredaA@...> wrote:
            > If we CANNOT come up with a system that would work on the
            > software we have, THEN I think it would make sense to look more seriously at
            > other options, but if what we have would work, that might be more effort
            > than we need to extend, yes? (If I'm wrong, please tell me!)

            Actually, that is why I brought up the Cunnan wiki - its already in
            service and may be an extendable resource. At the very least we can
            use it to pool knowledge and post research which helps fulfill its
            purpose. Its possible its administrator would allow a section for A&S
            50 which would be very easy to use. Wikis are publically editable, so
            they are a great way to pool knowledge.

            For those of you unfamiliar with wikis you may want to check out
            * Wikipedia - http://www.wikipedia.org/ - collaborative encyclopedia
            * Cunnan - http://cunnan.sca.org.au - collaborate SCA resource

            These are both the product of collaborative revision of web pages.
            Some one adds a page on a topic, then another person reading the
            article realizes that they can add something. They add a piece of
            information to the page and that's how the page evolves. Sometimes
            people tag an article with a request for information and then users of
            the wiki add more from that. Most wikis are very easy to edit, its
            mostly text based. Many allow the upload of documents, pictures and
            video.

            - Helene
          • Dawn Felagund
            ... for using ... goals (namely ... resources on ... I m afraid I might be missing something here, and if I am, I offer my apologies! :) Each group registered
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 2, 2009
              --- In AandS50ChallengeCommunity@yahoogroups.com, AlbredaA@... wrote:
              > So, before we get ahead of ourselves, can anyone propose a set-up
              for using
              > the database option in the Yahoo site that would accomplish our
              goals (namely
              > ease of input, access, and ability to store lots of links and
              resources on
              > various topics)?

              I'm afraid I might be missing something here, and if I am, I offer
              my apologies! :)

              Each group registered on Yahoo! Groups has a section for storing
              links. They can be organized by folder and sub-folder. There is
              space for a summary. Anyone can contribute to this; group moderators
              with appropriate permissions can edit them as necessary.

              That seems like it would be a very easy solution. Too easy--which is
              why I fear I've missed something! :)

              All the best,

              Eithne
              (aka Dawn)
            • AlbredaA@aol.com
              In a message dated 2/2/2009 2:10:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: Each group registered on Yahoo! Groups has a section for
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 2, 2009
                In a message dated 2/2/2009 2:10:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                DawnFelagund@... writes:

                Each group registered on Yahoo! Groups has a section for storing
                links. They can be organized by folder and sub-folder. There is
                space for a summary. Anyone can contribute to this; group moderators
                with appropriate permissions can edit them as necessary.

                That seems like it would be a very easy solution. Too easy--which is
                why I fear I've missed something! :)


                I thought of this, but since some resources, like books or magazines, aren't
                links as such (unless we linked through Amazon or somesuch, I suppose), I
                feared it wouldn't allow ALL of our resources to be listed.

                Also, it wouldn't allow us to annotate our lists with what each resource is
                best for, like "this book is out of print, but you can find it at most major
                universities, or used for more than a few pretty pennies. It contains great
                information for the more advanced weaver, including details on metal
                brocading and 3/1 twill patterning, particularly based on pieces from the early
                Viking era". I find long lists of links that do NOT contain this kind of
                information no where near as useful.

                And yes, that is a LOT of info to put into a database, but with a comments
                field, we might at least get some of that, eh?

                Albreda and her $.02
                **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.
                (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://ad.doubleclick.
                net/clk;211531132;33070124;e)


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jarrett Grace
                That s where a Wiki comes in kinda handy. Not only can you post a descriptive paragraph about the link, you can also post exerpts (within the limits of
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 2, 2009
                  That's where a Wiki comes in kinda handy. Not only can you post a
                  descriptive paragraph about the link, you can also post exerpts
                  (within the limits of copyright, naturally) so that people can get a
                  feel for whether the item is likely to be useful.

                  Hugh

                  2009/2/2 <AlbredaA@...>:

                  > Also, it wouldn't allow us to annotate our lists with what each resource is
                  > best for, like "this book is out of print, but you can find it at most major
                  > universities, or used for more than a few pretty pennies. It contains great
                  > information for the more advanced weaver, including details on metal
                  > brocading and 3/1 twill patterning, particularly based on pieces from the early
                  > Viking era". I find long lists of links that do NOT contain this kind of
                  > information no where near as useful.

                  --
                  No trees were killed in the sending of this message but a large number
                  of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

                  livejournal: hugh_mannity (http://hugh-mannity.livejournal.com/)
                • AlbredaA@aol.com
                  In a message dated 2/2/2009 3:00:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jh.grace@gmail.com writes: That s where a Wiki comes in kinda handy. Not only can you post a
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 2, 2009
                    In a message dated 2/2/2009 3:00:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                    jh.grace@... writes:

                    That's where a Wiki comes in kinda handy. Not only can you post a
                    descriptive paragraph about the link, you can also post exerpts
                    (within the limits of copyright, naturally) so that people can get a
                    feel for whether the item is likely to be useful.


                    Guess I need to go educate myself about Wikis!

                    Albreda
                    **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.
                    (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://ad.doubleclick.
                    net/clk;211531132;33070124;e)


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Silly String
                    ... Ahhh, there is an important difference which hasn t been explicitly stated: the yahoo database is private to the yahoo group and not web searchable (from
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 3, 2009
                      On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Dawn Felagund <DawnFelagund@...> wrote:
                      > Each group registered on Yahoo! Groups has a section for storing
                      > links. They can be organized by folder and sub-folder. There is
                      > space for a summary. Anyone can contribute to this; group moderators
                      > with appropriate permissions can edit them as necessary.
                      >
                      > That seems like it would be a very easy solution. Too easy--which is
                      > why I fear I've missed something! :)

                      Ahhh, there is an important difference which hasn't been explicitly
                      stated: the yahoo database is private to the yahoo group and not web
                      searchable (from google and such) or accessible to those outside the
                      mailing list. A wiki such as Cunnan makes our contributions public -
                      a gift back to the SCA - for everybody to use. This is part of the
                      reason that I am so enthusiastic about them. It also means that the
                      A&S 50 crowd would merge their knowledge the society as a whole -
                      which could even help our projects. As we contribute to pages, others
                      can also contribute and the end result will be a richer, more
                      informative article.

                      There is the question of where to catalog the results our efforts -
                      which is of current discussion. The second question, which is getting
                      mixed in, is where to catalog what we learn from our efforts. Towards
                      that I encourage everyone to go visit Cunnan, look up information on
                      their specialties, and add to it. Add references where possible so
                      that others can use them when writing scholarly documentation. I am
                      assuming that Cunnan is the correct SCA-wide resource, but others can
                      correct me if I'm wrong. I'm kind of a newbie and know way more about
                      wikis than SCA ;)

                      If someone will confirm that Cunnan is the correct resource then I
                      will post a short how-to on the list for folks to go try.

                      - Helene
                    • AlbredaA@aol.com
                      In a message dated 2/3/2009 10:54:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, sillystring13@gmail.com writes: Ahhh, there is an important difference which hasn t been
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 3, 2009
                        In a message dated 2/3/2009 10:54:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                        sillystring13@... writes:

                        Ahhh, there is an important difference which hasn't been explicitly
                        stated: the yahoo database is private to the yahoo group and not web
                        searchable (from google and such) or accessible to those outside the
                        mailing list. A wiki such as Cunnan makes our contributions public -
                        a gift back to the SCA - for everybody to use. This is part of the
                        reason that I am so enthusiastic about them. It also means that the
                        A&S 50 crowd would merge their knowledge the society as a whole -
                        which could even help our projects. As we contribute to pages, others
                        can also contribute and the end result will be a richer, more
                        informative article.


                        This is a VERY important difference, and one I wholeheartedly support. It
                        WAS my intention to put say, the five best links for beginners on each subject
                        together on our website (which I plan to rename and continue to host after
                        2015, btw), so that those links would be publicly available. Also worth noting
                        is that our Yahoo files etc ARE publicly viewable, for just this reason.
                        (Also, I *really* like the idea that if someone was hunting down background on
                        folks for awards etc, that they could see said candidates work/contributions
                        as part of our community.)

                        My big concern with any wiki other than one we host is that we have no
                        control over what happens to the wiki long term; if someone stops paying the
                        bills, will all of our work vanish?

                        Also, since I know next to *nothing* about wikis, can anyone point me to a
                        good source of beginners info on how they work, etc?

                        Albreda
                        **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.
                        (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://ad.doubleclick.
                        net/clk;211531132;33070124;e)


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Ann Franchi
                        Yes, and since the wiki is unmoderated, it is very easy for someone to add misinformation, or even profanity. I was researching something in Wikipedia - it s a
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 3, 2009
                          Yes, and since the wiki is unmoderated, it is very easy for someone to
                          add misinformation, or even profanity.

                          I was researching something in Wikipedia - it's a good first place to
                          look, but not necessarily good documentation, because it can be edited
                          by just about anyone - and found that someone had replaced the words
                          Arab and Arabic with a word beginning with F that is not used in
                          polite company.

                          If we put the information into the database for the list, only list
                          members will be able to access and edit it. Less likelyhood of the
                          above.

                          Anitra

                          On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Silly String <sillystring13@...> wrote:
                          > On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 7:52 PM, <AlbredaA@...> wrote:
                          >> If we CANNOT come up with a system that would work on the
                          >> software we have, THEN I think it would make sense to look more seriously
                          >> at
                          >> other options, but if what we have would work, that might be more effort
                          >> than we need to extend, yes? (If I'm wrong, please tell me!)
                          >
                          > Actually, that is why I brought up the Cunnan wiki - its already in
                          > service and may be an extendable resource. At the very least we can
                          > use it to pool knowledge and post research which helps fulfill its
                          > purpose. Its possible its administrator would allow a section for A&S
                          > 50 which would be very easy to use. Wikis are publically editable, so
                          > they are a great way to pool knowledge.
                          >
                          > For those of you unfamiliar with wikis you may want to check out
                          > * Wikipedia - http://www.wikipedia.org/ - collaborative encyclopedia
                          > * Cunnan - http://cunnan.sca.org.au - collaborate SCA resource
                          >
                          > These are both the product of collaborative revision of web pages.
                          > Some one adds a page on a topic, then another person reading the
                          > article realizes that they can add something. They add a piece of
                          > information to the page and that's how the page evolves. Sometimes
                          > people tag an article with a request for information and then users of
                          > the wiki add more from that. Most wikis are very easy to edit, its
                          > mostly text based. Many allow the upload of documents, pictures and
                          > video.
                          >
                          > - Helene
                          >
                          >
                        • Dawn Felagund
                          ... have no ... paying the ... Yes, but that could realistically happen anywhere where you do not control the domain yourself. :) There was recently a scare on
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 4, 2009
                            --- In AandS50ChallengeCommunity@yahoogroups.com, AlbredaA@... wrote:
                            > My big concern with any wiki other than one we host is that we
                            have no
                            > control over what happens to the wiki long term; if someone stops
                            paying the
                            > bills, will all of our work vanish?

                            Yes, but that could realistically happen anywhere where you do not
                            control the domain yourself. :) There was recently a scare on
                            LiveJournal when news came down to the userbase that LJ had laid off
                            a good amount of their staff, including much of the development
                            team. There was speculation that LJ might simply disappear
                            overnight, and people who had been keeping journals for years would
                            lose all of their content that they had not stored elsewhere. A
                            couple other free webhosts, mostly outside the U.S. so far, have
                            also closed their virtual doors, including, iIrc, AOL's free member
                            pages. So no matter how big and dependable a name seems, it might
                            not last. With the tough economic times, many companies are choosing
                            to save money by cutting free services first.

                            So that is yet another reminder to backup, backup, backup!--even web-
                            based content! :)

                            > Also, since I know next to *nothing* about wikis, can anyone point
                            me to a
                            > good source of beginners info on how they work, etc?

                            Some thoughts on wikis ...

                            I have never built a wiki or worked with a wiki from the back end.
                            However, I have contributed articles to wikis, so have half a clue
                            about things from the front end. :)

                            I am collecting links about wikis on my Delicious account in an
                            effort to learn more. I don't have much yet, mostly pages with good
                            resources on how to code content into wikis:

                            http://delicious.com/dawnfelagund/wiki

                            One of my co-moderators on my website also moderates a website that
                            uses a wiki. I would gladly ask for her thoughts if anyone feels
                            this would be helpful in making a decision about when to use a wiki,
                            whether for A&S50 or another project.

                            One of the biggest drawbacks that I see about wikis is that, in
                            order to contribute, a user must learn to write in wiki code. This
                            is something different than HTML. It's not complicated or difficult
                            to learn, but it *does* require a degree of effort, i.e., one can't
                            simply pop onto a wiki and write up a page without taking some time
                            to learn how the system works first. When I first started
                            contributing to wikis, I spent about an hour reading through the
                            instructions and help pages. This is not a big time commitment for
                            someone who hopes to contribute on a regular basis, but it might be
                            a deterrant for someone who only wants to make a small contribution
                            or who is intimidated by computer coding.

                            As far as vandalism, I think that wiki edits can be restricted to
                            registered members only. I'm pretty sure that the FanLore wiki
                            (fanlore.org) only allows registered members to contribute and make
                            edits. I'm at work, so I can't verify this. I think it is also
                            fairly easy for the wiki admins to reverse any efforts at vandalism.
                            Policing a huge site like Wikipedia is much more difficult than it
                            would be for a smaller site. The FanHistory.com wiki, I know, checks
                            every edit made to the site and restores mass deletions and
                            vandalism, usually within a few hours.

                            Depending on what one would like a site to do, there is usually open-
                            source software out there that can do it. I've played with a few
                            nice programs that I've always thought could be really useful to SCA
                            groups. As the A&S50's official Tech Support for Anachronists
                            (though a very quiet, non-productive one until school ends in April
                            *counting the days* ;), I'm always happy to share what I know and
                            help where I can; just drop me a line at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT
                            com.

                            All the best,

                            Eithne
                          • AlbredaA@aol.com
                            In a message dated 2/4/2009 12:55:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DawnFelagund@gmail.com writes: As the A&S50 s official Tech Support for Anachronists (though
                            Message 13 of 15 , Feb 4, 2009
                              In a message dated 2/4/2009 12:55:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                              DawnFelagund@... writes:

                              As the A&S50's official Tech Support for Anachronists
                              (though a very quiet, non-productive one until school ends in April
                              *counting the days* ;), I'm always happy to share what I know and
                              help where I can; just drop me a line at DawnFelagund AT gmail DOT
                              com.


                              Thank you, Eithne!

                              I'm not sure what we'll end up doing, but I know you'll be around to help us
                              make it work! :)

                              Albreda
                              **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.
                              (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1217883258x1201191827/aol?redir=http://ad.doubleclick.
                              net/clk;211531132;33070124;e)


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • sayiddaj
                              Another option that is more controllable is using Google Docs. I just learned about this feature of google. I ve been using it fairly regularly now that I know
                              Message 14 of 15 , Feb 12, 2009
                                Another option that is more controllable is using Google Docs. I just
                                learned about this feature of google. I've been using it fairly
                                regularly now that I know about it. You can set up a google account
                                for free, so no issue about someone not paying bills. Plus any
                                document you create you can invite collaborators on as well as share
                                it publicly. Here is one some documentation I recently wrote and
                                published <http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dqxd7tx_20c3735hgj>. I also
                                invited my laurel and adoptive laurel to collaborate with me on this
                                document. So they were able to view the document before it was
                                published, add comments and correct any obvious errors they saw.

                                Albreda, if you would like I can create a sample document and add you
                                as a collaborator so you can see how it works. You can create
                                spreadsheets as well, which might work best for this purpose, as we
                                could have a main category column, subcategory column and a comments
                                column, along with the title and link.

                                Cheers,
                                Jahanara
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