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Re: [ASCOM] I’m a Customer – What do I want?

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  • Robert Burns
    I m also a customer, and not a computer programmer, I m dependent upon the expertise of strangers. I think TheSky is a great piece of software. And being on
    Message 1 of 3 , Jun 2, 2006
      I'm also a customer, and not a computer programmer, I'm dependent upon
      the expertise of strangers. I think TheSky is a great piece of
      software. And being on a budget, I also appreciate CCDsoft being a
      full-feature control program that came included free with my SBIG.
      (Other camera's aren't so accessorized.)

      Yet if I had to choose between full Pempro functionality and the Bisque
      products, I'd choose Pempro and ASCOM.

      But . .. for my purposes -- and I believe for many users -- I don't.
      It's not as convenient if the two programs worked seemlessly together,
      but as long as we have people like Ajai and Ray working out the bugs,
      the two can co-exist on the same computer..

      I just hope Bisque doesn't get in the business of undercutting a small
      independent software development effort the way MicroSoft did to
      Netscape and others.

      Robert Burns

      Peter Simpson wrote:

      >I'm a Customer – What do I want?
      >
      >a) I want the best astronomy functionality
      >
      >b) I want a strong market and competition between successful and
      >profitable suppliers
      >
      >c) I don't want to change my applications just because I change my
      >hardware
      >
      >d) I don't want to see the bile and venom displayed here.
      >
      >Can an Interface standard contribute to any of the above?
      >
      >I say yes it can: Interface standards save application development
      >cost because you write code once and it works for all devices that
      >conform to the standard. This benefits the supplier and it benefits
      >me because the supplier has more time and resources to develop
      >exciting new functionality that adds value to what I do. So I think
      >standards help a) and c) above.
      >
      >b) is more difficult because standards force competition by removing
      >lock-in. Equally standards expand the customer base so b) could be
      >neutral for the vendor and positive for the customer.
      >
      >As a customer I want to choose my applications based on their
      >performance and functionality rather than on the basis of whether
      >they support my hardware.
      >
      >Standards
      >
      >In my experience standards are not set by dis-interested parties. For
      >me the concept of a neutral standards body is an illusion. The
      >outcome may be neutral but that is only because there are as many
      >people pulling to the right as are pulling to the left. The applied
      >forces are considerable its just that they balance out.
      >
      >Standards are the result of agreement between partisan interests.
      >
      >So I do not think ASCOM will ever be or appear to be neutral until
      >all interested parties get actively involved. Only then will the
      >forces have any chance of balancing out to create the standard from
      >which benefits a) b) and c) can flow.
      >
      >My plea:
      >
      >Application vendors get together!
      >
      >Meet behind closed doors; don't come out till you have a framework
      >agreement for interface standards. Sort out the high level basics to
      >define standards that will work for you, then let the wider community
      >work with you to flesh that out to a final version.
      >
      >If you get to the point where you can't find a solution why not stop
      >at agreeing what the question is and then put that to the wider
      >community. There are lots of experienced and skilled people in your
      >customer base that may just be able to see another angle to help
      >moving things forward.
      >
      >In the process above I think d) will solve itself...
      >
      >... the only question for me right now is who will pick up the phone
      >and dial...
      >
      >Peter
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >For more information see http://ASCOM-Standards.org/.
      >
      >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email FROM THE ACCOUNT YOU USED TO SUBSCRIBE(!) to:
      >ASCOM-Talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Maarten Vanleenhove
      Well said ! Maarten
      Message 2 of 3 , Jun 3, 2006
        Well said !


        Maarten


        Peter Simpson schreef:
        > I'm a Customer – What do I want?
        >
        > a) I want the best astronomy functionality
        >
        > b) I want a strong market and competition between successful and
        > profitable suppliers
        >
        > c) I don't want to change my applications just because I change my
        > hardware
        >
        > d) I don't want to see the bile and venom displayed here.
        >
        > Can an Interface standard contribute to any of the above?
        >
        > I say yes it can: Interface standards save application development
        > cost because you write code once and it works for all devices that
        > conform to the standard. This benefits the supplier and it benefits
        > me because the supplier has more time and resources to develop
        > exciting new functionality that adds value to what I do. So I think
        > standards help a) and c) above.
        >
        > b) is more difficult because standards force competition by removing
        > lock-in. Equally standards expand the customer base so b) could be
        > neutral for the vendor and positive for the customer.
        >
        > As a customer I want to choose my applications based on their
        > performance and functionality rather than on the basis of whether
        > they support my hardware.
        >
        > Standards
        >
        > In my experience standards are not set by dis-interested parties. For
        > me the concept of a neutral standards body is an illusion. The
        > outcome may be neutral but that is only because there are as many
        > people pulling to the right as are pulling to the left. The applied
        > forces are considerable its just that they balance out.
        >
        > Standards are the result of agreement between partisan interests.
        >
        > So I do not think ASCOM will ever be or appear to be neutral until
        > all interested parties get actively involved. Only then will the
        > forces have any chance of balancing out to create the standard from
        > which benefits a) b) and c) can flow.
        >
        > My plea:
        >
        > Application vendors get together!
        >
        > Meet behind closed doors; don't come out till you have a framework
        > agreement for interface standards. Sort out the high level basics to
        > define standards that will work for you, then let the wider community
        > work with you to flesh that out to a final version.
        >
        > If you get to the point where you can't find a solution why not stop
        > at agreeing what the question is and then put that to the wider
        > community. There are lots of experienced and skilled people in your
        > customer base that may just be able to see another angle to help
        > moving things forward.
        >
        > In the process above I think d) will solve itself...
        >
        > ... the only question for me right now is who will pick up the phone
        > and dial...
        >
        > Peter
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > For more information see http://ASCOM-Standards.org/.
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email FROM THE ACCOUNT YOU
        > USED TO SUBSCRIBE(!) to:
        > ASCOM-Talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > SPONSORED LINKS
        > Astronomy software
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Astronomy+software&w1=Astronomy+software&w2=Astronomy&w3=Promote&w4=Astronomy+star+name&w5=Astronomy+telescope&w6=Astronomy+gift&c=6&s=122&.sig=OeCtkJtjkZy9JNNGpTIDcA>
        > Astronomy
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Astronomy&w1=Astronomy+software&w2=Astronomy&w3=Promote&w4=Astronomy+star+name&w5=Astronomy+telescope&w6=Astronomy+gift&c=6&s=122&.sig=Qt1fEwIQp-GDb3rCkKbegg>
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        > Astronomy telescope
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Astronomy+telescope&w1=Astronomy+software&w2=Astronomy&w3=Promote&w4=Astronomy+star+name&w5=Astronomy+telescope&w6=Astronomy+gift&c=6&s=122&.sig=uJOB6Tfqzx-fWdYeaba_Yg>
        > Astronomy gift
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Astronomy+gift&w1=Astronomy+software&w2=Astronomy&w3=Promote&w4=Astronomy+star+name&w5=Astronomy+telescope&w6=Astronomy+gift&c=6&s=122&.sig=swAMkfeV5CvflA9uYpKp7A>
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      • David B. Toth
        ... Why make comments like this? You make it sound like Software Bisque is some huge conglomerate ... I think Doug at Cyanogen can confirm that he has a lot
        Message 3 of 3 , Jun 3, 2006
          At 08:10 PM 6/2/2006, Robert Burns wrote:

          >I just hope Bisque doesn't get in the business of undercutting a small
          >independent software development effort the way MicroSoft did to
          >Netscape and others.

          Why make comments like this?
          You make it sound like Software Bisque is some huge conglomerate ...
          I think Doug at Cyanogen can confirm that he has a lot more staff
          than Software Bisque has, yet you compare Software Bisque to Microsoft?

          Software Bisque consists of 4, count 'em, four brothers - that is it.
          And 1 secretary. And occasionally a few wives helping out. Most of
          these companies are like that. Doug's wife Mercedes used to (and
          perhaps still does) handle email for downloads at Cyanogen. Bob Denny
          gets everything done in a one-man configuration, as do the majority
          of these companies.

          This is a SMALL market, with very little profit margin ... there
          aren't going to be any hostile take-overs ... and the biggest problem
          is that folks want a lot out of these companies, including support,
          and very few are really willing to pay what it takes to support all
          of that. While some people feel that ASCOM benefits their business
          model, we also have to consider that ASCOM may present an
          unreasonable expense for others, according to their business model.

          The basic idea behind ASCOM is great - I think the devil's in the
          details. Some companies like the camera producers may feel that they
          just cannot take time away from R&D to deal with this right now, even
          though others believe it is of the utmost importance. People's
          priorities are often driven by forces that we cannot perceive from
          outside their companies, and we'll just have to be aware of that, no
          matter how much we may feel that they are short-sighted.

          We can encourage and we can nudge, but sometimes people feel that
          their priorities have to lay elsewhere for the time being.

          That said, perhaps we can resurrect discussions regarding a review of
          how all of this is structured so as to encourage more participation ....

          Dave
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