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[ASCOM] Re: ASCOM & C# wrapper class

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  • jfarrouch
    Hi everybody, He would be more judicious for our future readers to open another post about the Microsoft s updates. Somebody has it infos concerning the
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 22, 2004
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      Hi everybody,

      He would be more judicious for our future readers to open another
      post about the Microsoft's updates.

      Somebody has it infos concerning the scripting.dictionary & C# ?

      Best regards,

      Jean-patrick


      > From: an_astronut [mailto:mtrooney@p...]
      > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:33 PM
      > To: ASCOM-Talk@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [ASCOM] Re: ASCOM & C# wrapper class
      >
      >
      >
      > If you install it under Microsoft's VirtualPC (Available from the
      > MSDN Site), you can run it on the same machine as vs2003
      >
      > --- In ASCOM-Talk@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Long" <Tim@l...> wrote:
      > > BTW, anyone who's developing in .net might be interested to know
      > that
      > > some of the Visual Studio 2005 languages are now in public beta,
      > along
      > > with the .Net Framework 2.0. Be wary about installing the betas
      in a
      > > machine already running VS2003/.Net 1.1/ASP.net 1.1 because some
      > stuff
      > > will break. Not spectacularly, but subtlety in a hard-to-figure-
      out
      > kind
      > > of way ;-)
    • Tim Long
      This is my personal philosophy about new technology. I think you have to make a decision as to whether you re an early adopter or whether you re the kind of
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 22, 2004
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        This is my personal philosophy about new technology. I think you have to
        make a decision as to whether you're an early adopter or whether you're
        the kind of person who never loads anything with a version string ending
        in ".0". There are pros and cons to both approaches and I would not
        dream of telling anyone they are wrong for not agreeing with me, but
        here's my take on it. Note that when I say "early adopter" I am talking
        about released products, not betas. There are whole arguments for why
        certain vendors should be adopting beta technology but I'm not going to
        go into that here. Also, I am going to be making sweeping
        generalizations here. As I always say, "to generalize is to be foolish"
        and I'm sure everyone can find specific cases that break my reasoning.

        Things evolve so quickly in computing that, in my opinion, you can't
        afford not to be an early adopter. If you wait until version 1.1, then
        version 2.0 is already in development and by the time you've got used to
        1.1, 2.0 will already be released. In short, its really easy to be in a
        position where you're always obsolete or you never do anything because
        the next version is always imminent. The version numbers I've picked
        were no accident, of course, and they refer to the .net Framework. 2.0
        is already in public beta and a lot of people are only now starting to
        adopt 1.1.

        Now a lot of people are put off from installing the .net framework
        because it is a sizeable download (not a large download by any means but
        nevertheless sizeable, at over 20Mb). I had to smile when one person
        contacted me to tell me he wasn't going to use a piece of my software,
        because of the large download, when my piece of software was 'so small'
        in comparison. He felt the requirements were disproportionate. Of
        course, he totally missed the point that my software was so compact
        because a lot of it was contained in the .net framework. He missed the
        point that every piece of my software is compact because of all the
        useful, reusable components in the framework and that the framework only
        has to be downloaded once and every piece of software benefits
        thereafter. You have to take a little bit of pain up front to reap
        benefits forever. By not adopting a technology, you merely deny yourself
        the benefits of it. If you wait until a technology is "mature" then you
        have to take the same pain but you denied yourself the benefit of that
        technology while you were procrastinating. This is why I think it is
        always best to take the pain of new technology as early as possible and
        why I am an early adopter.

        There is another important aspect to this. Everyone software engineer
        knows that the sooner you fix a bug or problem, the less it costs and
        the easier it is to do. The best kind of bug (and the cheapest) is one
        that gets fixed during development before anyone else knows about it. A
        bug that is discovered in a shipping product can cost orders of
        magnitude more time and money to put right. Well, I think this idea can
        be extended to developing software in what I shall refer to as "legacy"
        technologies. The .net languages and runtime are here to stay. Microsoft
        bet the company on it so you better believe we are all going to have to
        use it sooner or later. Windows Server 2003 has it built in
        'out-of-the-box' and so will whistler, the next version of windows for
        the desktop. So, sooner or later, most developers will have to use .net
        languages if they want to be at all productive and have a chance of
        being compatible with the OS du jour. The .net technologies are now
        several years old, yet a lot of people are busy developing in legacy
        technologies. This is understandable. If the only tool you know how to
        use is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail. However, the more
        code that is developed, the larger the codebase you have that uses the
        legacy technology and the harder it will be to justify upgrading. So, in
        a sense, the longer you leave it to upgrade, the harder it will be in
        the long run and the more it will cost you. You spend all your time
        developing in the wrong direction and you will have to re-do it all when
        you upgrade. As John Covey would say, you need to take time out to
        "sharpen the saw". If you don't sharpen the saw, you spend all your time
        sawing and not getting very far. Adopting new technology is like
        sharpening the saw. With the pace of change in the computing industry, a
        lot of saw sharpening is required. I believe it is better to adopt new
        technology as early as possible so that you minimize the amount of
        re-development and maximize the benefit of the new technology for both
        yourself (the developer) and the end user.

        Oh, and new technology is fun.

        I don't expect everyone to agree with this view, as I said it is just my
        personal philosophy. If anyone cares to make the counter-case then I
        would be interested to read it.


        --Tim Long
        http://syd.tigranetworks.co.uk - software for amateur astronomers


        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Bob Denny [mailto:rdenny@...]
        > Sent: Thursday 22 July 2004 01:04
        > To: ASCOM-Talk@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [ASCOM] ASCOM & C# wrapper class
        >
        > I learned long ago not to install MS betas. I'm not a
        > bleeding-edge kind of guy :-) I'll wait till it's past the
        > first few "service packs". I'm very glad I waited to start
        > working with .NET until a couple of years after the year of
        > betas leading up to the first release.
        >
        > -- Bob
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • Tim Long
        Jean-patrick is right, this is going off topic. I ve posted a slightly revised version of this on my WebLog over at
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 22, 2004
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          Jean-patrick is right, this is going off topic. I've posted a slightly
          revised version of this on my WebLog over at
          http://syd.tigranetworks.co.uk/TimBlog/default.aspx and anyone who wants
          to is welcome to add their comments there.

          --Tim Long
          http://syd.tigranetworks.co.uk - software for amateur astronomers


          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Tim Long
          > Sent: Thursday 22 July 2004 10:22
          > To: ASCOM-Talk@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: RE: [ASCOM] ASCOM & C# wrapper class
          >
          > This is my personal philosophy about new technology. I think
          > ...
        • Bob Denny
          Jack -- I m not sure I quite understand your note... I was responding to Tim s note about new .NET betas. Since I operate in a production environment here,
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 22, 2004
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            Jack --

            I'm not sure I quite understand your note... I was responding to Tim's note
            about new .NET betas. Since I operate in a production environment here,
            developing products that -must- be reliable, the last thing I want to
            expose myself to is a beta development system, compilers, and library!

            -- Bob


            > I’d reconsider… the number of C Library API’s (e.g., _atoi) have been
            > marked depreciated. Even StrSafe.h has depreciated calls. They’ve
            > literally said screw the std c libraries, we’re tried of your
            > insecurities! Nothing is sacred! DotNet? Same story.
            >
            > I say; Better to prepare your self now with a little knowledge than get
            > slammed by it later. Boy I mean slammed!
          • Jonathan Fay
            Bob, if you don t have a copy of Microsoft Virtual PC then you got to get one. It is the most time-saving and useful product I have used in a long time. With
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 22, 2004
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              Bob, if you don't have a copy of Microsoft Virtual PC then you got to get
              one. It is the most time-saving and useful product I have used in a long
              time.

              With it you can install on one machine Win95, Win98, WinNT, Win2000, WinXP,
              Win 2003 server, DOS and a half a dozen flavors of Linux all without having
              your base system contaminated by any of it.

              It is also a great platform to have a web sandbox that can be safe for
              browsing and downloading.

              The way it works is to simulate a complete PC with Bios, Hardware, display
              and everything else. The IDE hard drives are actually files your host
              computers file system. The machines can access the network, virtual hardware
              etc. So you can install an image of an O/S and boot in into a window on your
              machine (or full screen or a 2nd monitor or even Remote Desktop into it).

              From there your host machine is protected and you can install anything your
              hear desires, including viruses or spyware, and your host is fully
              protected.

              You of coarse can open up traffic to it and share files if you want, as well
              as mount physical drives and read CD-ROMS, but it is your choice.

              I use it at work to simulate entire network datacenters for my software
              development and testing. If I find a bug in that only happens in the
              Japanese version of XP, I just boot up that image in a window and
              rock-n-roll.

              What is also cool is the mode that lets you do a bunch of tests and then
              push a button and it goes back to the beginning like nothing happened. This
              lets you test installs on a known clean environment without mucking a good
              system or having to re-image a box all the time.

              It is sooo cool.

              With it you can play with any beta you want and leave it in its own sandbox
              until you are ready. You can also test client-server software with a server
              OS and client o/s all running on virtual PC on one physical box.

              Jonathan

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Bob Denny [mailto:rdenny@...]
              Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 7:43 AM
              To: ASCOM-Talk@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [ASCOM] ASCOM & C# wrapper class

              Jack --

              I'm not sure I quite understand your note... I was responding to Tim's note
              about new .NET betas. Since I operate in a production environment here,
              developing products that -must- be reliable, the last thing I want to
              expose myself to is a beta development system, compilers, and library!

              -- Bob


              > I'd reconsider. the number of C Library API's (e.g., _atoi) have been
              > marked depreciated. Even StrSafe.h has depreciated calls. They've
              > literally said screw the std c libraries, we're tried of your
              > insecurities! Nothing is sacred! DotNet? Same story.
              >
              > I say; Better to prepare your self now with a little knowledge than get
              > slammed by it later. Boy I mean slammed!






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            • Bob Denny
              Jonathan -- I have Virtual PC and I agree it s pretty cool! But I m not concerned with VS.NET betas interfering with the production/ supported VS.NET
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 23, 2004
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                Jonathan --

                I have Virtual PC and I agree it's pretty cool! \\

                But I'm not concerned with VS.NET betas interfering with the production/
                supported VS.NET version I use... What I was getting at is that, at least
                for me, "playing around" and "learning about new features" are the only
                things I see as uses for Microsoft betas. I learned years ago that using
                Microsoft beta tools and libraries to develop software for delivery to
                paying customers is a big mistake, coming and going.

                Playing around is fun. As for learning about new features, I practice "just
                in time learning" here: When I need to do something, I take the time to
                learn then. Of course this has risks; I could end up doing something the
                old-fashioned/hard way for lack of awareness of some new technology/
                feature. So I survey everything regularly. It's a balancing act.

                Well, Tim pointed out that we're getting off-topic, so I should stop here :-))

                -- Bob
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