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Re: Learned something new... almost...

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  • Bill
    Something to think about. LoTW produces QSLs for awards and those awards are personal (tied to a single operator per DXCC rules). Maybe the operator is
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 8, 2007
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      Something to think about. LoTW produces QSLs for awards and those
      awards are personal (tied to a single operator per DXCC rules).
      Maybe the operator is tracked if that field is filled in. That
      brings up the question, if the operator were also a LoTW member,
      should the QSL show up as a QSL under his account? I'm guessing it
      won't, but there could be a good argument that it should. Another
      situation, when I work at a contest location with that station's
      callsign and the owner of that callsign is also an LoTW member,
      those QSOs that I personally made were based on my skill (or luck).
      As long as the location is within the allowed radius for my WAS or
      within the country for my DXCC, shouldn't they be counted for my
      awards?
      Even if the argument is valid, I won't hold my breath to ever see
      that implemented.

      Bill, N5RR

      --- In ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Chudek" <k0rc@...> wrote:
      >
      > Fellow LoTWers,
      >
      > I was having difficulty getting a confirmation for a QSO that
      appeared "just fine" on both sides. Looking at the LoTW record
      printouts from my end and the DX end didn't reveal any problem. But
      still, no confirmation!
      >
      > What I discovered within my original ADIF file is an "Operator"
      field. Normally this is coded <Operator:4> KØRC. But in this
      particular ADIF file, I found two instances of <Operator:3> KØD.
      >
      > This wasn't a huge surprise because I used this Special Event
      callsign last month. Exactly how I got this entry into my daily log
      is anyone's guess. But that's really not the point of my discovery.
      >
      > What I'm struggling to figure out is why the LoTW system would
      withhold a confirmation because the Operator callsign was different
      from the Station and Certificate callsign (which do match). I think
      this would add an unreasonable level of complexity for a Special
      Event or Contesting station where multiple operators generate a log.
      >
      > For example, let's say you run the Station callsign WØAA with 4
      different operators during a contest. If you have a LoTW certificate
      for WØAA and upload this log, what difference does the Operator
      callsign make? In this scenario, none of the WØAA contacts would
      generate a confirmation.
      >
      > I suspect the easy answer is to remove the <Operator:#> tag before
      processing the adif file.
      >
      > But help me understand the logic for this processing behavior! Are
      the LoTW confirmations Station callsign or Operator callsign based?
      >
      > 73 de Bob - KØRC in MN
      >
    • Rick Murphy/K1MU
      At 01:18 PM 10/8/2007, Robert Chudek wrote: Fellow LoTWers, I was having difficulty getting a confirmation for a QSO that appeared just fine on both sides.
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 9, 2007
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        At 01:18 PM 10/8/2007, Robert Chudek wrote:
        Fellow LoTWers,
         
        I was having difficulty getting a confirmation for a QSO that appeared "just fine" on both sides. Looking at the LoTW record printouts from my end and the DX end didn't reveal any problem. But still, no confirmation!
         
        What I discovered within my original ADIF file is an "Operator" field. Normally this is coded <Operator:4> KØRC. But in this particular ADIF file, I found two instances of <Operator:3> KØD.
         
        This wasn't a huge surprise because I used this Special Event callsign last month. Exactly how I got this entry into my daily log is anyone's guess. But that's really not the point of my discovery.
         
        What I'm struggling to figure out is why the LoTW system would withhold a confirmation because the Operator callsign was different from the Station and Certificate callsign (which do match). I think this would add an unreasonable level of complexity for a Special Event or Contesting station where multiple operators generate a log.
         
        For example, let's say you run the Station callsign WØAA with 4 different operators during a contest. If you have a LoTW certificate for WØAA and upload this log, what difference does the Operator callsign make? In this scenario, none of the WØAA contacts would generate a confirmation.
         
        I suspect the easy answer is to remove the <Operator:#> tag before processing the adif file.

        Have you actually tried that? It seems rather unlikely, especially given the fact that there is a known bug with LotW losing QSO matches, which seems to be seen when folks re-upload their entire log. For some reason this causes matches to disappear.

        Of course, I'm assuming you're not using callsign KØRC anywhere in LotW, since that's not going to match K0RC.

        But help me understand the logic for this processing behavior! Are the LoTW confirmations Station callsign or Operator callsign based?

        Contact lotw-help with the QSO particulars. They may be able to use your case in figuring out the bug.  All we here on the list can do is to speculate.
                 -Rick
      • Robert Chudek
        Hello Rick, I m splitting this apart, into smaller chunks... I said: I suspect the easy answer is to remove the tag before processing the adif
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 9, 2007
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          Hello Rick,
           
          I'm splitting this apart, into smaller chunks...
           
          I said: I suspect the easy answer is to remove the <Operator:#> tag before processing the adif file.
          You asked: "Have you actually tried that?"
          I say: No, I haven't removed the Operator tag from any files.
           
          You said: "It seems rather unlikely, especially given the fact that there is a known bug with LotW losing QSO matches, which seems to be seen when folks re-upload their entire log. For some reason this causes matches to disappear."
          I ask: Has anyone identified a specific QSO match that has actually disappeared? Or could this be the "QSL counter" just gets screwed up and doesn't count correctly when a log is uploaded with a substantial number of dupes?

          You said: "Of course, I'm assuming you're not using callsign KØRC anywhere in LotW, since that's not going to match K0RC."
          I say: Correct. I don't use the slashed zero anywhere except in email messages to distinguish the number. What were they thinking when they created a 10th callsign district anyway?  :-)
           
          You said: "Contact lotw-help with the QSO particulars. They may be able to use your case in figuring out the bug.  All we here on the list can do is to speculate."
          I say: Yes, that's my next step. I am composing a message today. I was casting my questions here first in case someone else has already experienced this scenario. I haven't participated in LoTW from its inception.
           
          You said: " -Rick"
          I say: Thanks Rick!
           
          73 de Bob - KØRC in MN
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 2:38 PM
          Subject: Re: [ARRL-LOTW] Learned something new... almost...

          At 01:18 PM 10/8/2007, Robert Chudek wrote:

          Fellow LoTWers,
           
          I was having difficulty getting a confirmation for a QSO that appeared "just fine" on both sides. Looking at the LoTW record printouts from my end and the DX end didn't reveal any problem. But still, no confirmation!
           
          What I discovered within my original ADIF file is an "Operator" field. Normally this is coded <Operator:4> KØRC. But in this particular ADIF file, I found two instances of <Operator:3> KØD.
           
          This wasn't a huge surprise because I used this Special Event callsign last month. Exactly how I got this entry into my daily log is anyone's guess. But that's really not the point of my discovery.
           
          What I'm struggling to figure out is why the LoTW system would withhold a confirmation because the Operator callsign was different from the Station and Certificate callsign (which do match). I think this would add an unreasonable level of complexity for a Special Event or Contesting station where multiple operators generate a log.
           
          For example, let's say you run the Station callsign WØAA with 4 different operators during a contest. If you have a LoTW certificate for WØAA and upload this log, what difference does the Operator callsign make? In this scenario, none of the WØAA contacts would generate a confirmation.
           
          I suspect the easy answer is to remove the <Operator:#> tag before processing the adif file.

          Have you actually tried that? It seems rather unlikely, especially given the fact that there is a known bug with LotW losing QSO matches, which seems to be seen when folks re-upload their entire log. For some reason this causes matches to disappear.

          Of course, I'm assuming you're not using callsign KØRC anywhere in LotW, since that's not going to match K0RC.

          But help me understand the logic for this processing behavior! Are the LoTW confirmations Station callsign or Operator callsign based?

          Contact lotw-help with the QSO particulars. They may be able to use your case in figuring out the bug.  All we here on the list can do is to speculate.
                   -Rick

        • James M Punderson IV
          Bob, The LOTW problem is definitely NOT just a QSL counter problem. I have had the exact same QSL, a 17M SSB QSO with EC8AFM, disappear four times now. It
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 10, 2007
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            Bob,

            The LOTW problem is definitely NOT just a QSL counter problem.

            I have had the exact same QSL, a 17M SSB QSO with EC8AFM, disappear
            four times now. It reappeared three times but is now missing again.

            Jamie Punderson, W2QO

            > You said: "It seems rather unlikely, especially given the fact that
            there is a known bug with LotW losing QSO matches, which seems to be
            seen when folks re-upload their entire log. For some reason this
            causes matches to disappear."
            > I ask: Has anyone identified a specific QSO match that has actually
            disappeared? Or could this be the "QSL counter" just gets screwed up
            and doesn't count correctly when a log is uploaded with a substantial
            number of dupes?
            >

            > 73 de Bob - KØRC in MN
            >
          • Robert Chudek
            Jamie, In a Lily Tomlin switchboard operator voice and delivery http://www.lilytomlin.com/charns/ernestine/quotes.htm A gracious hello and a big
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 10, 2007
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              Jamie,
               
              <humor?=on>
              In a Lily Tomlin switchboard operator voice and delivery http://www.lilytomlin.com/charns/ernestine/quotes.htm   "A gracious hello and a big LoTW QSL to you, Jamie!... well, maybe... maybe not... snort, snort..."
              <humor?=off>
               
              I would think the LoTW programmer would have a pretty good starting point with your EC8AFM qsl record. I did not try to find which confirmation was taken away in my records. With over 13,000 confirmations in my log, I'll need to figure out an efficient method to compare a "before" and "after" to see if I can identify my MIA's.
               
              Thanks for the info.
               
              73 de Bob - KØRC in MN
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 7:39 AM
              Subject: [ARRL-LOTW] Re: Learned something new... almost...

              Bob,

              The LOTW problem is definitely NOT just a QSL counter problem.

              I have had the exact same QSL, a 17M SSB QSO with EC8AFM, disappear
              four times now. It reappeared three times but is now missing again.

              Jamie Punderson, W2QO

              > You said: "It seems rather unlikely, especially given the fact that
              there is a known bug with LotW losing QSO matches, which seems to be
              seen when folks re-upload their entire log. For some reason this
              causes matches to disappear."
              > I ask: Has anyone identified a specific QSO match that has actually
              disappeared? Or could this be the "QSL counter" just gets screwed up
              and doesn't count correctly when a log is uploaded with a substantial
              number of dupes?
              >

              > 73 de Bob - KØRC in MN
              >

            • Terry
              Just download your LoTW log periodically and when you notice something missing do a comparison. 73 de Terry KK6T
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 10, 2007
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                Just download your LoTW log periodically and when you notice something
                missing do a comparison.

                73 de Terry KK6T

                Robert Chudek wrote:
                > Jamie,
                >
                > <humor?=on>
                > In a Lily Tomlin switchboard operator voice and delivery
                > http://www.lilytomlin.com/charns/ernestine/quotes.htm "A gracious
                > hello and a big LoTW QSL to you, Jamie!... well, maybe... maybe not...
                > snort, snort..."
                > <humor?=off>
                >
                > I would think the LoTW programmer would have a pretty good starting
                > point with your EC8AFM qsl record. I did not try to find which
                > confirmation was taken away in my records. With over 13,000
                > confirmations in my log, I'll need to figure out an efficient method
                > to compare a "before" and "after" to see if I can identify my MIA's.
                >
                > Thanks for the info.
                >
                > 73 de Bob - KØRC in MN
                >
                > http://k0rc.spaces.live.com
                > http://czudek.spaces.live.com
                > http://chudek.aberon.net
                > http://www.pclink.com/~k0rc <http://www.pclink.com/%7Ek0rc>
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > *From:* James M Punderson IV <mailto:w2qo@...>
                > *To:* ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com>
                > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 10, 2007 7:39 AM
                > *Subject:* [ARRL-LOTW] Re: Learned something new... almost...
                >
                > Bob,
                >
                > The LOTW problem is definitely NOT just a QSL counter problem.
                >
                > I have had the exact same QSL, a 17M SSB QSO with EC8AFM, disappear
                > four times now. It reappeared three times but is now missing again.
                >
                > Jamie Punderson, W2QO
                >
                > > You said: "It seems rather unlikely, especially given the fact that
                > there is a known bug with LotW losing QSO matches, which seems to be
                > seen when folks re-upload their entire log. For some reason this
                > causes matches to disappear."
                > > I ask: Has anyone identified a specific QSO match that has actually
                > disappeared? Or could this be the "QSL counter" just gets screwed up
                > and doesn't count correctly when a log is uploaded with a substantial
                > number of dupes?
                > >
                >
                > > 73 de Bob - KØRC in MN
                > >
                >
                >
              • Robert Chudek
                Hi Terry, Well my second cup of coffee hasn t kicked in yet, so I m scratching my head what tool I would use to make this comparison ? If I print these 13,000
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 10, 2007
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                  Hi Terry,
                   
                  Well my second cup of coffee hasn't kicked in yet, so I'm scratching my head what tool I would use to make this "comparison"? If I print these 13,000 records with 100 per page... I've got a lot of pages to compare. I hope there's a computer assisted method of doing this!
                   
                  73 de Bob - KØRC in MN
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Terry
                  Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 11:02 AM
                  Subject: Re: [ARRL-LOTW] Re: Learned something new... almost...

                  Just download your LoTW log periodically and when you notice something
                  missing do a comparison.

                  73 de Terry KK6T

                  Robert Chudek wrote:
                  > Jamie,
                  >
                  > <humor?=on>
                  > In a Lily Tomlin switchboard operator voice and delivery
                  > http://www.lilytoml in.com/charns/ ernestine/ quotes.htm "A gracious
                  > hello and a big LoTW QSL to you, Jamie!... well, maybe... maybe not...
                  > snort, snort..."
                  > <humor?=off>
                  >
                  > I would think the LoTW programmer would have a pretty good starting
                  > point with your EC8AFM qsl record. I did not try to find which
                  > confirmation was taken away in my records. With over 13,000
                  > confirmations in my log, I'll need to figure out an efficient method
                  > to compare a "before" and "after" to see if I can identify my MIA's.
                  >
                  > Thanks for the info.
                  >
                  > 73 de Bob - KØRC in MN
                  >
                  > http://k0rc. spaces.live. com
                  > http://czudek. spaces.live. com
                  > http://chudek. aberon.net
                  > http://www.pclink. com/~k0rc <http://www.pclink. com/%7Ek0rc>
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > *From:* James M Punderson IV <mailto:w2qo@...>
                  > *To:* ARRL-LOTW@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:ARRL-LOTW@yahoogrou ps.com>
                  > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 10, 2007 7:39 AM
                  > *Subject:* [ARRL-LOTW] Re: Learned something new... almost...
                  >
                  > Bob,
                  >
                  > The LOTW problem is definitely NOT just a QSL counter problem.
                  >
                  > I have had the exact same QSL, a 17M SSB QSO with EC8AFM, disappear
                  > four times now. It reappeared three times but is now missing again.
                  >
                  > Jamie Punderson, W2QO
                  >
                  > > You said: "It seems rather unlikely, especially given the fact that
                  > there is a known bug with LotW losing QSO matches, which seems to be
                  > seen when folks re-upload their entire log. For some reason this
                  > causes matches to disappear."
                  > > I ask: Has anyone identified a specific QSO match that has actually
                  > disappeared? Or could this be the "QSL counter" just gets screwed up
                  > and doesn't count correctly when a log is uploaded with a substantial
                  > number of dupes?
                  > >
                  >
                  > > 73 de Bob - KØRC in MN
                  > >
                  >
                  >

                • Terry
                  Good Morning Bob! No, no....definitely don t try it manually. You d need WAY MORE than two cups of coffee for that :-) There are many free programs for
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 10, 2007
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                    Good Morning Bob!

                    No, no....definitely don't try it manually. You'd need WAY MORE than
                    two cups of coffee for that :-)

                    There are many free programs for comparing text programs.

                    73 de Terry KK6T

                    Robert Chudek wrote:
                    > Hi Terry,
                    >
                    > Well my second cup of coffee hasn't kicked in yet, so I'm scratching
                    > my head what tool I would use to make this "comparison"? If I print
                    > these 13,000 records with 100 per page... I've got a lot of pages to
                    > compare. I hope there's a computer assisted method of doing this!
                    >
                    > 73 de Bob - KØRC in MN
                    >
                    > http://k0rc.spaces.live.com
                    > http://czudek.spaces.live.com
                    > http://chudek.aberon.net
                    > http://www.pclink.com/~k0rc <http://www.pclink.com/%7Ek0rc>
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > *From:* Terry <mailto:terry@...>
                    > *To:* ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com>
                    > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 10, 2007 11:02 AM
                    > *Subject:* Re: [ARRL-LOTW] Re: Learned something new... almost...
                    >
                    > Just download your LoTW log periodically and when you notice
                    > something
                    > missing do a comparison.
                    >
                    > 73 de Terry KK6T
                    >
                    > Robert Chudek wrote:
                    > > Jamie,
                    > >
                    > > <humor?=on>
                    > > In a Lily Tomlin switchboard operator voice and delivery
                    > > http://www.lilytomlin.com/charns/ernestine/quotes.htm
                    > <http://www.lilytomlin.com/charns/ernestine/quotes.htm> "A gracious
                    > > hello and a big LoTW QSL to you, Jamie!... well, maybe... maybe
                    > not...
                    > > snort, snort..."
                    > > <humor?=off>
                    > >
                    > > I would think the LoTW programmer would have a pretty good starting
                    > > point with your EC8AFM qsl record. I did not try to find which
                    > > confirmation was taken away in my records. With over 13,000
                    > > confirmations in my log, I'll need to figure out an efficient
                    > method
                    > > to compare a "before" and "after" to see if I can identify my MIA's.
                    > >
                    > > Thanks for the info.
                    > >
                    > > 73 de Bob - KØRC in MN
                    > >
                    > > http://k0rc.spaces.live.com <http://k0rc.spaces.live.com>
                    > > http://czudek.spaces.live.com <http://czudek.spaces.live.com>
                    > > http://chudek.aberon.net <http://chudek.aberon.net>
                    > > http://www.pclink.com/~k0rc <http://www.pclink.com/%7Ek0rc>
                    > <http://www.pclink.com/%7Ek0rc <http://www.pclink.com/%7Ek0rc>>
                    > >
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > *From:* James M Punderson IV <mailto:w2qo@...
                    > <mailto:w2qo%40w2qo.com>>
                    > > *To:* ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com
                    > <mailto:ARRL-LOTW%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > <mailto:ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com
                    > <mailto:ARRL-LOTW%40yahoogroups.com>>
                    > > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 10, 2007 7:39 AM
                    > > *Subject:* [ARRL-LOTW] Re: Learned something new... almost...
                    > >
                    > > Bob,
                    > >
                    > > The LOTW problem is definitely NOT just a QSL counter problem.
                    > >
                    > > I have had the exact same QSL, a 17M SSB QSO with EC8AFM, disappear
                    > > four times now. It reappeared three times but is now missing again.
                    > >
                    > > Jamie Punderson, W2QO
                    > >
                    > > > You said: "It seems rather unlikely, especially given the fact
                    > that
                    > > there is a known bug with LotW losing QSO matches, which seems to be
                    > > seen when folks re-upload their entire log. For some reason this
                    > > causes matches to disappear."
                    > > > I ask: Has anyone identified a specific QSO match that has
                    > actually
                    > > disappeared? Or could this be the "QSL counter" just gets screwed up
                    > > and doesn't count correctly when a log is uploaded with a
                    > substantial
                    > > number of dupes?
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > > 73 de Bob - KØRC in MN
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                  • Bill
                    Bob, There is a program I like for comparing files, ExamDiff . You can find it at: http://www.prestosoft.com/edp_examdiff.asp It is real simple to use and it
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 10, 2007
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                      Bob,

                      There is a program I like for comparing files, "ExamDiff".
                      You can find it at:

                      http://www.prestosoft.com/edp_examdiff.asp

                      It is real simple to use and it will handle very large files and
                      show you what is changed in a file and what has been added to either
                      file. It is free.

                      Bill, N5RR


                      --- In ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com, Terry <terry@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Good Morning Bob!
                      >
                      > No, no....definitely don't try it manually. You'd need WAY MORE
                      than
                      > two cups of coffee for that :-)
                      >
                      > There are many free programs for comparing text programs.
                      >
                      > 73 de Terry KK6T
                      >
                    • Terry
                      There s even a comparison of comparison tools on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_comparison_tools 73 de Terry KK6T
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 10, 2007
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                        There's even a comparison of comparison tools on Wikipedia:

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_comparison_tools

                        73 de Terry KK6T

                        Bill wrote:
                        > Bob,
                        >
                        > There is a program I like for comparing files, "ExamDiff".
                        > You can find it at:
                        >
                        > http://www.prestosoft.com/edp_examdiff.asp
                        >
                        > It is real simple to use and it will handle very large files and
                        > show you what is changed in a file and what has been added to either
                        > file. It is free.
                        >
                        > Bill, N5RR
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com, Terry <terry@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >> Good Morning Bob!
                        >>
                        >> No, no....definitely don't try it manually. You'd need WAY MORE
                        >>
                        > than
                        >
                        >> two cups of coffee for that :-)
                        >>
                        >> There are many free programs for comparing text programs.
                        >>
                        >> 73 de Terry KK6T
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Robert Chudek
                        Thanks fellows... I ll check them out... 73 de Bob - KØRC in MN ... From: Terry To: ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:17 PM
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 10, 2007
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                          Thanks fellows... I'll check them out...
                           
                          73 de Bob - KØRC in MN

                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Terry
                          Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:17 PM
                          Subject: Re: [ARRL-LOTW] Re: Learned something new... almost...

                          There's even a comparison of comparison tools on Wikipedia:

                          http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Comparison_ of_file_comparis on_tools

                          73 de Terry KK6T

                          Bill wrote:
                          > Bob,
                          >
                          > There is a program I like for comparing files, "ExamDiff".
                          > You can find it at:
                          >
                          > http://www.prestoso ft.com/edp_ examdiff. asp
                          >
                          > It is real simple to use and it will handle very large files and
                          > show you what is changed in a file and what has been added to either
                          > file. It is free.
                          >
                          > Bill, N5RR
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In ARRL-LOTW@yahoogrou ps.com, Terry <terry@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >> Good Morning Bob!
                          >>
                          >> No, no....definitely don't try it manually. You'd need WAY MORE
                          >>
                          > than
                          >
                          >> two cups of coffee for that :-)
                          >>
                          >> There are many free programs for comparing text programs.
                          >>
                          >> 73 de Terry KK6T
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

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