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RE: [ARRL-LOTW] LoTW "competition"

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  • K0HB
    ... Of course it IS different! All of those things you mention were new on-the-air OPERATING technologies, and ARRL support (and membership dollars spent)
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 19, 2006
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      > From: Joe Subich, W4TV <w4tv@...>

      > Spending the membership dollars to promote LotW as a way
      > to exchange QSLs is no different and no less supportable
      > than all the "membership dollars" spent to encourage SSB
      > when it was new, or packet when it was
      > new, or FM/Repeaters when they were new, etc.

      Of course it IS different!

      All of those things you mention were new on-the-air OPERATING technologies,
      and ARRL support (and membership dollars spent) falls nicely under our
      charter in the FCC rules.

      "97.1(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to
      contribute to the advancement of the radio art."

      Clearly (in my opinion) the National Association for Amateur Radio would be
      remiss if it didn't encourage "when they were new" OPERATING technologies.

      LoTW, on the other hand, is simply a METHOD of ACCOUNTING for our contacts,
      nothing more, nothing less. If it works and draws widespread participation
      (as it seems it is), then fine. If most hams could care less and do not
      participate, then so be it too.

      >..... anything that can be done to encourage the use of
      > LotW for "routine" confirmations is justifiable......

      .....in your opinion. Not in mine.

      I am a "from the start" participant (35,000 QSO's loaded) and supporter of
      the LoTW method of QSLing, not some luddite clutching my "Little Print
      Shop" samples (remember those, which came even before your Novice license
      got to you?).

      But LoTW is simply a METHODOLOGY for confirming contacts, just like IRC's,
      SASE's, WF5E, managers, and the incoming/outgoing bureaus. Having some kind
      of "competition" to promote any of those METHODOLOGIES is (in my opinion) a
      "welfare program".

      73, de Hans, K0HB

      --
      ><{{{{*> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~k0hb
    • Joe Subich, W4TV
      Gerry, ... I think those who might be the most serious about a LotW competition will be serious about seeking out LotW participants and encouraging QSO
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 20, 2006
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        Gerry,

        > To be a "competition" there should be some means of me
        > effecting the results rather than simply waiting and hoping
        > the other stations contacted will upload their logs.

        I think those who might be the most serious about a LotW
        "competition" will be serious about seeking out LotW participants
        and encouraging QSO partners who are not currently using LotW to
        become registered and actively participate.

        However, I don't see the proposed LotW activity as a competition
        in the sense of a contest like Sweepstakes, ARRL DX, etc. but more
        be more in line with some of CQ's year long operating activities
        or the eDXCC, eVUCC, or eWAS awards being awarded by eQSL. They
        are better characterized as "incentives" ...

        The lack of resources committed to LotW (lack of promotion,
        limitations in programming support, etc.) by the Board has been
        stunning. The need for additional resources is critical and
        without promotion LotW will never thrive. While Hans claims
        that promoting LotW is different than promoting SSB, Repeaters
        of packet, LotW is another "modernization" of Amateur Radio -
        without which Amateur Radio will continue to decline.

        73,

        ... Joe, W4TV



        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Hohn
        > Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 1:28 PM
        > To: ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [ARRL-LOTW] LoTW "competition"
        >
        >
        >
        > I have to agree with Hans on this.
        >
        > LoTW is simply a record of transactions.
        >
        > To be a "competition" there should be some means of me
        > effecting the results
        > rather than simply waiting and hoping the other stations
        > contacted will
        > upload their logs.
        >
        > As much as I support LoTW and encourage help and others to us
        > it, I don't
        > see it as a "competition".
        >
        >
        > Gerry VE6LB/VA6XDX
        > DXCC Field Checker-Southern Alberta
        > VE/VA6 QSL Bureau Team
        > (403) 251-6520
        > ve6lb@...
        > http://www.qsl.net/ve6lb/
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <w4tv@...>
        > To: <ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com>; "'DX-QSO'" <dx-qso@yahoogroups.com>
        > Cc: <n7ng@...>; <k0qb@...>; <n0jph@...>
        > Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 10:12 AM
        > Subject: RE: [ARRL-LOTW] LoTW "competition"
        >
        >
        > >
        > > K0HB writes:
        > >
        > >> In the 2005 DXCC Yearbook just received, Editor N7NG proposes the
        > >> notion of "competition based on Logbook of The World-only
        > confirmations"
        > >> with plaques and cups, etc.
        > >>
        > >> In my opinion, this idea should not be tossed aside
        > lightly. It should
        > >> be hurled aside with energetic force.
        > >
        > > I disagree with Hans' view with energetic force.
        > >
        > > A "competition based on Logbook of the World-only
        > confirmations" does
        > > not diminish the traditional means of exchanging QSLs for those who
        > > whish to collect them. However, it provides an excellent vehicle
        > > to enable certain "long form" contests (e.g., first to work and
        > > confirm DXCC or WAS on a particular band each month, etc.). These
        > > long form "competitions" and be considerably different than the
        > > current crop of all out 24 or 48 "sprints." It enables a
        > redefinition
        > > and expansion of the traditional contest.
        > >
        > > In addition, LotW based "contests" and awards are an excellent way
        > > to promote participation in Logbook of the World. Promotion is
        > > something LotW sorely needs and providing an operating reason to
        > > encourage participation is one way to encourage that participation.
        > >
        > > 73,
        > >
        > > ... Joe, W4TV
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > --------------------~-->
        > Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.
        > http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/ELTolB/TM
        > --------------------------------------------------------------
        > ------~->
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        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • timgep
        ... As I see it, the technical work on LOTW is largely done , and the software developers are mainly in maintenence mode. Most of the work now needs to be
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 16, 2006
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          --- In ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Subich, W4TV" <w4tv@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Gerry,
          >
          > > To be a "competition" there should be some means of me
          > > effecting the results rather than simply waiting and hoping
          > > the other stations contacted will upload their logs.
          >
          > I think those who might be the most serious about a LotW
          > "competition" will be serious about seeking out LotW participants
          > and encouraging QSO partners who are not currently using LotW to
          > become registered and actively participate.
          >
          > However, I don't see the proposed LotW activity as a competition
          > in the sense of a contest like Sweepstakes, ARRL DX, etc. but more
          > be more in line with some of CQ's year long operating activities
          > or the eDXCC, eVUCC, or eWAS awards being awarded by eQSL. They
          > are better characterized as "incentives" ...
          >
          > The lack of resources committed to LotW (lack of promotion,
          > limitations in programming support, etc.) by the Board has been
          > stunning. The need for additional resources is critical and
          > without promotion LotW will never thrive. While Hans claims
          > that promoting LotW is different than promoting SSB, Repeaters
          > of packet, LotW is another "modernization" of Amateur Radio -
          > without which Amateur Radio will continue to decline.
          >
          > 73,
          >
          > ... Joe, W4TV
          >
          >
          >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com
          > > [mailto:ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Hohn
          > > Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 1:28 PM
          > > To: ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: Re: [ARRL-LOTW] LoTW "competition"
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > I have to agree with Hans on this.
          > >
          > > LoTW is simply a record of transactions.
          > >
          > > To be a "competition" there should be some means of me
          > > effecting the results
          > > rather than simply waiting and hoping the other stations
          > > contacted will
          > > upload their logs.
          > >
          > > As much as I support LoTW and encourage help and others to us
          > > it, I don't
          > > see it as a "competition".
          > >
          > >
          > > Gerry VE6LB/VA6XDX
          > > DXCC Field Checker-Southern Alberta
          > > VE/VA6 QSL Bureau Team
          > > (403) 251-6520
          > > ve6lb@...
          > > http://www.qsl.net/ve6lb/
          > >
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <w4tv@...>
          > > To: <ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com>; "'DX-QSO'" <dx-qso@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Cc: <n7ng@...>; <k0qb@...>; <n0jph@...>
          > > Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 10:12 AM
          > > Subject: RE: [ARRL-LOTW] LoTW "competition"
          > >
          > >
          > > >
          > > > K0HB writes:
          > > >
          > > >> In the 2005 DXCC Yearbook just received, Editor N7NG proposes the
          > > >> notion of "competition based on Logbook of The World-only
          > > confirmations"
          > > >> with plaques and cups, etc.
          > > >>
          > > >> In my opinion, this idea should not be tossed aside
          > > lightly. It should
          > > >> be hurled aside with energetic force.
          > > >
          > > > I disagree with Hans' view with energetic force.
          > > >
          > > > A "competition based on Logbook of the World-only
          > > confirmations" does
          > > > not diminish the traditional means of exchanging QSLs for those who
          > > > whish to collect them. However, it provides an excellent vehicle
          > > > to enable certain "long form" contests (e.g., first to work and
          > > > confirm DXCC or WAS on a particular band each month, etc.). These
          > > > long form "competitions" and be considerably different than the
          > > > current crop of all out 24 or 48 "sprints." It enables a
          > > redefinition
          > > > and expansion of the traditional contest.
          > > >
          > > > In addition, LotW based "contests" and awards are an excellent way
          > > > to promote participation in Logbook of the World. Promotion is
          > > > something LotW sorely needs and providing an operating reason to
          > > > encourage participation is one way to encourage that participation.
          > > >
          > > > 73,
          > > >
          > > > ... Joe, W4TV
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > > --------------------~-->
          > > Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.
          > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/ELTolB/TM
          > > --------------------------------------------------------------
          > > ------~->
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          As I see it, the technical work on LOTW is largely "done", and
          the software developers are mainly in maintenence mode. Most of
          the work now needs to be done on the marketing side, as many have
          correctly stated. Domestically, I think LOTW is nearing critical
          mass in about 12 to 18 months. Internationally is where the adoption
          rate is low.

          In order to increase participation in LOTW, I think a plaque should
          be awarded for each ARRL DX contest (phone and cw) for the station
          who is able to get the most LOTW QSL's for that weekend in the first
          30 or 60 days follwing the contest. The might want to restrict the
          plaque to DX only. No need for another contest.

          Just an idea.

          Tim K6GEP
          following the contest.
        • John E Bastin
          ... Might not be a bad idea, with low implementation overhead. I would make the time period 60 days, though, because many operators will not upload their LotW
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 18, 2006
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            On Aug 17, 2006, at 1:59 AM, timgep wrote:

            > In order to increase participation in LOTW, I think a plaque should
            > be awarded for each ARRL DX contest (phone and cw) for the station
            > who is able to get the most LOTW QSL's for that weekend in the first
            > 30 or 60 days follwing the contest. The might want to restrict the
            > plaque to DX only. No need for another contest.

            Might not be a bad idea, with low implementation overhead.

            I would make the time period 60 days, though, because many operators
            will not upload their LotW logs until the 30-day deadline for contest
            log submission has passed.

            73,


            John E Bastin, K8AJS
            jbastin@...
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