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Re: [ARRL-LOTW] Paid vs. Unpaid

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  • Rick Murphy/K1MU
    ... Yes, that s correct. Until you submit it for verification (paying the appropriate LoTW fee), you get no credit for LoTW QSLs. (Just like paper QSLs sitting
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 1, 2011
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      At 11:51 PM 3/31/2011, Jerry Keller \(K3BZ\) wrote:
      >
      >
      >OK, I get it about the cards. But doesn't a LotW "match" in the computer
      >remain merely "confirmed" until an application for an award is submitted
      >that requires verification of one of those confirmed matches?

      Yes, that's correct. Until you submit it for verification (paying the
      appropriate LoTW fee), you get no credit for LoTW QSLs. (Just like
      paper QSLs sitting in your shoebox at home.)

      >The appropriate confirmed QSO's are then "verified" and a fee is paid.
      >But if I
      >have several QSO's that qualify, how do I know which one is chosen to be
      >used for the award ?

      That's simple - look at the LoTW application before you submit it (or
      look at it online later). It'll tell you what QSLs LoTW has chosen to
      submit, allowing you to make changes. Once you make that choice, what
      you choose to submit becomes verified. The LoTW system will often pick
      QSLs to submit that you don't need to, either due to what awards you
      want or what paper QSLs you have on hand.

      For a LoTW DXCC application, they'll pick any QSL that confirms a new
      band/mode/entity check box even if you're personally uninterested in
      the award (for example, I have less than 10 RTTY QSLs - LoTW will pick
      all of them to submit because it doesn't know that I'll probably NEVER
      make it to 100 RTTY). But LoTW doesn't know that, so the system still
      picks any RTTY QSLs to add to the LoTW DXCC application. As AA6YQ said,
      this can lead to you overpaying because you pay for every LoTW QSL
      submitted but get to submit a bunch of paper QSLs as part of the
      application fee. But LoTW doesn't know what paper QSLs you have, so
      you'll have to figure out the best combination of QSLs to submit on
      your own.

      > OK, now those QSO's are in the paid category.

      It's better if you stop using the word "paid". There's ways to get QSOs
      verified without paying specifically for them. The only thing that
      matters for DXCC is whether or not it's verified. You may have to pay a
      LoTW fee to have a LoTW QSL verified, but you don't specifically pay a
      fee for a paper QSL.

      > A year
      >goes by and I want to apply for another award using a bunch of new QSO's,
      >some card and some LotW matches that are confirmed but not verified, and
      >also some previously verified LotW QSO's. How do I figure all that out
      >if I
      >don't know which LotW QSO's are verified and paid for, and which are not?

      I don't understand this. If it's "paid for", then it's going to be
      verified, so you'll know you don't need to submit it again.
      If I pay to have a 80m CW contact with P5ROMEO verified, then my DXCC
      credit matrix will have P5 mixed, P5 80m, P5 CW all filled in. LoTW
      won't put another 80m CW P5 QSL into an application because it knows
      you've already verified it for all three counters. It WILL pick an 80m
      phone one, though.

      Bottom line, you're for some reason worried that you'll pay for a LoTW
      QSL twice, but that won't happen short of a LoTW bug. If you have
      credit for a QSL in the LoTW system (it's been paid for, submitted, and
      verified), it won't be selected for submission again. There's no way
      for the system to charge you twice for the same QSL to be sent to DXCC.

      You can pay for a LoTW QSL unnecessarily if you don't pay attention
      (due to bands/modes/etc that you don't care about), but you can also
      have this problem with paper QSLs. What I mean by this is that if you
      just hand all of your QSL cards to the DXCC desk, they'll happily check
      them all and give you credit for then new band/mode/entity slots while
      telling you (by rejecting) what you've already got credit for. It's
      YOUR problem to figure out what you need to submit, not ARRL's.

      >I guess I'm just wondering if there's a chart somewhere that shows
      >payment
      >status information so I can figure out my best options.

      The closest you'll get to is the DXCC credit matrix. It will tell you
      what you've been given credit for. There isn't a separate indicator in
      that list for "Paper QSL" or "LoTW QSL".
      73,
      -Rick
    • w8jmf
      Jerry, We are all assuming here I think that you have your DXCC account tied to your LotW account. What I find more useful than the award matrix is the
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 1, 2011
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        Jerry,

        We are all assuming here I think that you have your DXCC account tied to your LotW account. What I find more useful than the award matrix is the Challenge matrix. If you hit the "All credits" button it will give you a grid of everything awarded (bolded) plus everything you currently have available on LotW to apply. To that you can add what cards you have that haven't been checked yet. If you click on any of the bolded entries it will show you whether it was confirmed by a card or LotW. What I do is keep a spreadsheet based on this grid and I also keep track of cards I have that I can use on my next application. There are other options if you use logging software as has already been pointed out. I find the spreadsheet works great. The one downside of this I guess is if you chase things in all modes. I primarily chase phone. The award matix would fill in that part of the puzzle, but without the callsigns or you could check your results under your Mixed, CW, etc. award listings. If I chased all the modes my spreadsheet would be a bit more complex. YMMV.

        73, John

        --- In ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com, Rick Murphy/K1MU <k1mu-lotw@...> wrote:

        <snip>

        > The closest you'll get to is the DXCC credit matrix. It will tell you
        > what you've been given credit for. There isn't a separate indicator in
        > that list for "Paper QSL" or "LoTW QSL".
        > 73,
        > -Rick
        >
      • Jerry Keller (K3BZ)
        Yes, I do have my LotW account linked to my DXCC account. My logging software... DXKeeper by AA6YQ... is excellent, and will prepare submissions for me. I
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 1, 2011
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          Yes, I do have my LotW account linked to my DXCC account.

          My logging software... DXKeeper by AA6YQ... is excellent, and will prepare
          submissions for me. I just want to be able to see a list of QSOs that I
          have already paid for and can use as part of future award applications
          without paying again, and I can't seem to find a starting point for such a
          list.

          I haven't been able to find either the Award matrix or the Challenge matrix
          that you mention. If the bolded entries represent QSOs already used (and
          paid for) for previous awrds, then it does sound like one or both of those
          might provide the info I'm looking for. Can you tel me how/where I can
          access them?

          73, Jerry K3BZ

          -----Original Message-----
          From: w8jmf
          Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 11:59 AM
          To: ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [ARRL-LOTW] Re: Paid vs. Unpaid

          Jerry,

          We are all assuming here I think that you have your DXCC account tied to
          your LotW account. What I find more useful than the award matrix is the
          Challenge matrix. If you hit the "All credits" button it will give you a
          grid of everything awarded (bolded) plus everything you currently have
          available on LotW to apply. To that you can add what cards you have that
          haven't been checked yet. If you click on any of the bolded entries it will
          show you whether it was confirmed by a card or LotW. What I do is keep a
          spreadsheet based on this grid and I also keep track of cards I have that I
          can use on my next application. There are other options if you use logging
          software as has already been pointed out. I find the spreadsheet works
          great. The one downside of this I guess is if you chase things in all
          modes. I primarily chase phone. The award matix would fill in that part of
          the puzzle, but without the callsigns or you could check your results under
          your Mixed, CW, etc. award
          listings. If I chased all the modes my spreadsheet would be a bit more
          complex. YMMV.

          73, John

          --- In ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com, Rick Murphy/K1MU <k1mu-lotw@...> wrote:

          <snip>

          > The closest you'll get to is the DXCC credit matrix. It will tell you
          > what you've been given credit for. There isn't a separate indicator in
          > that list for "Paper QSL" or "LoTW QSL".
          > 73,
          > -Rick
          >




          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • w8jmf
          Jerry, Go to the LotW site and sign on to your account. Click on the awards tab. Then click on the DXCC award account bar. You will then be presented with a
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 1, 2011
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            Jerry,

            Go to the LotW site and sign on to your account. Click on the awards tab. Then click on the DXCC award account bar. You will then be presented with a list of the awards you have credits in and a link at the bottom to view the award matrix. Hope this helps.

            73, John

            --- In ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Keller \(K3BZ\)" <k3bz@...> wrote:
            >
            > Yes, I do have my LotW account linked to my DXCC account.
            >
            > My logging software... DXKeeper by AA6YQ... is excellent, and will prepare
            > submissions for me. I just want to be able to see a list of QSOs that I
            > have already paid for and can use as part of future award applications
            > without paying again, and I can't seem to find a starting point for such a
            > list.
            >
            > I haven't been able to find either the Award matrix or the Challenge matrix
            > that you mention. If the bolded entries represent QSOs already used (and
            > paid for) for previous awrds, then it does sound like one or both of those
            > might provide the info I'm looking for. Can you tel me how/where I can
            > access them?
            >
            > 73, Jerry K3BZ
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: w8jmf
            > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 11:59 AM
            > To: ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [ARRL-LOTW] Re: Paid vs. Unpaid
            >
            > Jerry,
            >
            > We are all assuming here I think that you have your DXCC account tied to
            > your LotW account. What I find more useful than the award matrix is the
            > Challenge matrix. If you hit the "All credits" button it will give you a
            > grid of everything awarded (bolded) plus everything you currently have
            > available on LotW to apply. To that you can add what cards you have that
            > haven't been checked yet. If you click on any of the bolded entries it will
            > show you whether it was confirmed by a card or LotW. What I do is keep a
            > spreadsheet based on this grid and I also keep track of cards I have that I
            > can use on my next application. There are other options if you use logging
            > software as has already been pointed out. I find the spreadsheet works
            > great. The one downside of this I guess is if you chase things in all
            > modes. I primarily chase phone. The award matix would fill in that part of
            > the puzzle, but without the callsigns or you could check your results under
            > your Mixed, CW, etc. award
            > listings. If I chased all the modes my spreadsheet would be a bit more
            > complex. YMMV.
            >
            > 73, John
            >
            > --- In ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com, Rick Murphy/K1MU <k1mu-lotw@> wrote:
            >
            > <snip>
            >
            > > The closest you'll get to is the DXCC credit matrix. It will tell you
            > > what you've been given credit for. There isn't a separate indicator in
            > > that list for "Paper QSL" or "LoTW QSL".
            > > 73,
            > > -Rick
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
          • Peter Jordahl
            Jerry, In addition to John s response, since you are using DXKeeper, any QSO marked V in the LOTW QSL Received box or in the QSL Received box has been
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 1, 2011
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              Jerry,
              In addition to John's response, since you are using DXKeeper, any QSO
              marked "V" in the LOTW QSL Received box or in the QSL Received box has
              been verified, which means it has been paid for. You can set up SQL
              statement that will show only those QSO's in the display page:

              (app_dxkeeper_lotw_qsl_received="V") or (qsl_received="V")

              in one of the 4 SQL filter slots in the advanced sorts and filters page
              of DXKeeper. If you need to do this by band, mode, or both, you can add
              those to the above SQL statement by enclosing the entire above statement
              in parentheses and appending

              and band = "80M" and mode="CW"

              for example.

              GL and 73
              Pete K5GM

              On Fri, 01 Apr 2011 15:57 -0400, "Jerry Keller (K3BZ)" <k3bz@...>
              wrote:
              > Yes, I do have my LotW account linked to my DXCC account.
              >
              > My logging software... DXKeeper by AA6YQ... is excellent, and will
              > prepare
              > submissions for me. I just want to be able to see a list of QSOs that I
              > have already paid for and can use as part of future award applications
              > without paying again, and I can't seem to find a starting point for such
              > a
              > list.
              >
              > I haven't been able to find either the Award matrix or the Challenge
              > matrix
              > that you mention. If the bolded entries represent QSOs already used (and
              > paid for) for previous awrds, then it does sound like one or both of
              > those
              > might provide the info I'm looking for. Can you tel me how/where I can
              > access them?
              >
              > 73, Jerry K3BZ
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: w8jmf
              > Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 11:59 AM
              > To: ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [ARRL-LOTW] Re: Paid vs. Unpaid
              >
              > Jerry,
              >
              > We are all assuming here I think that you have your DXCC account tied
              > to
              > your LotW account. What I find more useful than the award matrix is the
              > Challenge matrix. If you hit the "All credits" button it will give you a
              > grid of everything awarded (bolded) plus everything you currently have
              > available on LotW to apply. To that you can add what cards you have that
              > haven't been checked yet. If you click on any of the bolded entries it
              > will
              > show you whether it was confirmed by a card or LotW. What I do is keep a
              > spreadsheet based on this grid and I also keep track of cards I have that
              > I
              > can use on my next application. There are other options if you use
              > logging
              > software as has already been pointed out. I find the spreadsheet works
              > great. The one downside of this I guess is if you chase things in all
              > modes. I primarily chase phone. The award matix would fill in that part
              > of
              > the puzzle, but without the callsigns or you could check your results
              > under
              > your Mixed, CW, etc. award
              > listings. If I chased all the modes my spreadsheet would be a bit more
              > complex. YMMV.
              >
              > 73, John
              >
              > --- In ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com, Rick Murphy/K1MU <k1mu-lotw@...> wrote:
              >
              > <snip>
              >
              > > The closest you'll get to is the DXCC credit matrix. It will tell you
              > > what you've been given credit for. There isn't a separate indicator in
              > > that list for "Paper QSL" or "LoTW QSL".
              > > 73,
              > > -Rick
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              Pete Jordahl, K5GM
              k5gm@...
            • Rick Murphy/K1MU
              ... Log in to LoTW. Pick Awards , chose your DXCC award account, then Application History . Each QSL that you ve paid for will be in one of your
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 1, 2011
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                At 03:57 PM 4/1/2011, Jerry Keller \(K3BZ\) wrote:
                >
                >
                >Yes, I do have my LotW account linked to my DXCC account.
                >
                >My logging software... DXKeeper by AA6YQ... is excellent, and will
                >prepare
                >submissions for me. I just want to be able to see a list of QSOs that I
                >have already paid for and can use as part of future award applications
                >without paying again, and I can't seem to find a starting point for
                >such a
                >list.

                Log in to LoTW. Pick "Awards", chose your DXCC award account, then
                "Application History". Each QSL that you've paid for will be in one of
                your applications. You'll have to open each application and create the
                list from them.

                There isn't a single list. There's no need for one, since you only pay
                for a QSO once for a given award - once you've paid to submit it to
                DXCC, you'll never have to pay for that to be submitted to DXCC ever again.

                The same thing is generally true for paper QSL card verification - ARRL
                records date, mode, band, call, and entity so you'll never have to
                submit a paper card again. (I say "generally" because
                pre-computerization records often don't have all of the data.)

                >I haven't been able to find either the Award matrix or the Challenge
                >matrix
                >that you mention.

                Awards/DXCC account. The "Account Status" list shows your status for
                all of the DXCC awards. If you click on the "Challenge" link in that
                list, you'll get a list of pending Challenge QSLs - select the "All
                credits" button and click "Select DXCC Award to View" and you'll get a
                list of all of your verified QSOs with band/callsign/mode. The links in
                this list will give you QSL details (date/time, mode, etc.)

                There's also a "View Award Credit Matrix" link at the bottom of the
                list that shows you what's verified for each entity, mode, and band.

                Since you're using DXKeeper, it's keeping track of all of this for you
                - it'll create the best set of QSLs to submit to get you the best
                impact for an award submission. Let it worry about handling things
                rather than second guessing.
                73,
                -Rick
              • Jerry Keller (K3BZ)
                OK, now I get it... finally. What I didn t realize is that submitting an application that asks for specified LotW confirmations to be applied to DXCC is
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 1, 2011
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                  OK, now I get it... finally. What I didn't realize is that submitting an
                  application that asks for specified LotW "confirmations" to be applied to
                  DXCC is analagous to sending in some cards for verification. Now I realize
                  that LotW matches are separate from DXCC and only get copied over (and paid
                  for) when needed for an award. Once they are in the DXCC list, they are
                  paid for and need never be paid for again for future awards. I was looking
                  for a list of QSOs, and all I saw was a list of verified
                  entities/bands/modes... and that's all there is. Thanks to Rick and
                  everyone else that helped drum this into my thick skull....;-)

                  73, Jerry K3BZ

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Rick Murphy/K1MU
                  Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 6:41 PM
                  To: ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [ARRL-LOTW] Re: Paid vs. Unpaid

                  At 03:57 PM 4/1/2011, Jerry Keller \(K3BZ\) wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >Yes, I do have my LotW account linked to my DXCC account.
                  >
                  >My logging software... DXKeeper by AA6YQ... is excellent, and will
                  >prepare
                  >submissions for me. I just want to be able to see a list of QSOs that I
                  >have already paid for and can use as part of future award applications
                  >without paying again, and I can't seem to find a starting point for
                  >such a
                  >list.

                  Log in to LoTW. Pick "Awards", chose your DXCC award account, then
                  "Application History". Each QSL that you've paid for will be in one of
                  your applications. You'll have to open each application and create the
                  list from them.

                  There isn't a single list. There's no need for one, since you only pay
                  for a QSO once for a given award - once you've paid to submit it to
                  DXCC, you'll never have to pay for that to be submitted to DXCC ever again.

                  The same thing is generally true for paper QSL card verification - ARRL
                  records date, mode, band, call, and entity so you'll never have to
                  submit a paper card again. (I say "generally" because
                  pre-computerization records often don't have all of the data.)

                  >I haven't been able to find either the Award matrix or the Challenge
                  >matrix
                  >that you mention.

                  Awards/DXCC account. The "Account Status" list shows your status for
                  all of the DXCC awards. If you click on the "Challenge" link in that
                  list, you'll get a list of pending Challenge QSLs - select the "All
                  credits" button and click "Select DXCC Award to View" and you'll get a
                  list of all of your verified QSOs with band/callsign/mode. The links in
                  this list will give you QSL details (date/time, mode, etc.)

                  There's also a "View Award Credit Matrix" link at the bottom of the
                  list that shows you what's verified for each entity, mode, and band.

                  Since you're using DXKeeper, it's keeping track of all of this for you
                  - it'll create the best set of QSLs to submit to get you the best
                  impact for an award submission. Let it worry about handling things
                  rather than second guessing.
                  73,
                  -Rick



                  ------------------------------------

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