13851Re: Non-US hams vs LOTW
- Jan 6, 2012To add some points from the old world..
- sending and receiving of an unlimited amount of paper-QSL-cards
is included in DARC (=German ARRL) membership
(this is also true for a no. of other countries in Europe)
- people in non-anglistic countries have problems giving personal
information to 3rd parties, e.g. we would never
ever tell someone our credit number on phone, the law
in DL is that all personal information is secret
(also for the state) unless usage is explicitly allowed,
so sending a copy of the license to anywhere in the world
is a problem for many people; just a different culture
Nethertheless the participation of DL hams in relation to the
total number of hams is abt the same as in the U.S.
(according to the HB9BZA statistics)
So there are many pros and cons, reasons for this or that but after all it seems that didn't find the gist of the matter yet.
Someone from Cupertino on the list? The fruit company located
there might have some ideas why a ham can't live without the
--- In ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com, Tom Wylie <tgwylie@...> wrote:
> I am on the DX side and upload my logs to LOTW weekly. I am interested
> in keeping my DXCC up to date and this is by far the most cost effective
> method and the quickest!
> This should NOT degenerate into a USA v NON USA situation. It has
> nothing to do with DXCC, but merely a method of ensuring those who
> choose to use LOTW are who they say they are.
> For the ARRL in the USA it is very easy, but for those outside the USA,
> they must use alternative methods. If you were truly interested in DXCC
> then this would only be a very minor
> inconvenience. You already put all your details on facebook, paypal,
> twitter etc etc etc without question why all the carping and hassle
> about LOTW.
> Get real guys, there are more important things to worry about.
> On 05/01/2012 15:50, Paul Spiteri wrote:
> > Hi Henk and Wes,
> > I agree with you 100% but can I ask you this :-
> > If you was in a DX land do you think you can join to LOTW ?
> > How many DX stations are on LOTW ?? ( not dx-ped ) a few I think , or
> > did not upload anymore.
> > Think about this and you would have the answer 100%.
> > I see the story from another side. Regards.
> > 73
> > 9H1SP
> > Paul
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Wes <mailto:wes_quinn@...>
> > *To:* ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com>
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 04, 2012 3:17 PM
> > *Subject:* [ARRL-LOTW] Re: Non-US hams vs LOTW
> > Hi Henk,
> > You are very lucky that it costs that little for cards, but it is
> > the POSTAGE that is the part of the cost that stops people from
> > QSLing. In general, cards are dirt cheap, so I don't care about
> > the cost of the cards. And I haven't seen anything like what you
> > have, in the US, so you are lucky. Global QSL is another way to go
> > through the buro to get cards for a good price, but it is
> > extremely slow. It can take years to get a card and sometimes
> > people expire before they get my card. With LoTW, it isn't years,
> > but days or hours, at the most.
> > I have to pay at least $3 for a single QSO as opposed to just 25
> > cents to use LoTW. While I am chasing the Challenge DXCC award,
> > that costs thousands and thousands of dollars for just POSTAGE.
> > With LoTW, it is a small fraction (one twelfth) of that cost.
> > Plus a lot of times, I mail out $3 for a card and I get nothing
> > back, so that is more money just wasted. And I know I have well
> > over 200 cards sent out to DX stations over the past 10 years that
> > I have never got anything back, so that is more money wasted that
> > I don't have.
> > And don't forget it backs up your log for free and allows everyone
> > you made a QSL with a chance to go for an award without the
> > hassle. It is limited on awards right now, but hopefully that will
> > change in the near future.
> > Those are all valid reasons why LoTW is so many more times better
> > than traditional methods. I bet the postage costs in EU aren't
> > much different than in the US, so I see them in the same situation
> > as me and others like me.
> > That is an awesome analysis you have done on why people don't use
> > LoTW. I like the details. :-)
> > I hope that helps. LoTW is only as good as the people that use it.
> > Without users, it is nothing. Please encourage more people to use it.
> > 73 de k4Wes
> > --- In ARRL-LOTW@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:ARRL-LOTW%40yahoogroups.com>, Henk Remijn PA5KT
> > <pa5kt@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I see the statement that LotW is cheaper then paper cards coming
> > back
> > > again. If you are member of our national league sending a card
> > costs,
> > > when you buy 1000 cards, 9 eurocent + the price for the sticker
> > with the
> > > QSO info. Nothing more. And it works for domestic cards as well.
> > > Everything else is including in the membership fee of our national
> > > league. This is the case for a lot of other countries, at least
> > in EU.
> > > So it is cheaper, yes, but not that much.
> > >
> > > To come back to the original question, why is it so difficult to
> > send a
> > > copy of your license to ARRL? It is not. But why would someone
> > do this
> > > if there is no significant reason for him to use LotW?
> > >
> > > Btw, I am trying to convince my club members to use LotW and I
> > got a lot
> > > of arguments why they dont want that:
> > > - I like cards
> > > - sending cards costs only 10 cents or even less if you buy more
> > cards.
> > > - I like to write cards because I can put a personal note of the
> > qso on it
> > > - I dont do awards so why bother
> > > - I tried it once but I did not understand the TQSL process, why so
> > > difficult, who cares about cheating, it is just a hobby (Most
> > heard answer).
> > > - the vhf/uhf/shf guys: nobody uses it so why should I?
> > > - the vhf/uhf/shf guys: if I even get a confirmation they forgot
> > to fill
> > > in their maidenhead locator, or they put in the wrong one, so it
> > is not
> > > useful for any award
> > > - which awards are supported? only dxcc, was and vucc? why not
> > more? is
> > > this lotW or lotUSA?
> > > - I want WAZ so I use eQSL. They only asked for proof of identity
> > > through email.
> > > - my logbook program does not support it.
> > > - I dont trust computers.
> > > - etc etc etc
> > >
> > > So unless the ARRL makes it a mature tool which can be used by
> > all IARU
> > > member societies and other organizations it will never work. If
> > people
> > > dont have a personal reason they will come up with all kinds of
> > reasons
> > > not to use it.
> > >
> > > Please help me with good reasons I can use to convince my club
> > members.
> > > (It is cheaper is not a good reason).
> > >
> > > 73 Henk PA5KT
> > >
> > >
> > > Op 03-01-2012 21:30, Wes schreef:
> > > > Hi Gordon and HNY,
> > > >
> > > > Sorry to hear about your hard drive crash, but I hope you get
> > back into LoTW.
> > > >
> > > > Don't forget, that QSLing isn't just for you, but for the
> > other person that is looking for confirmation from you. LoTW is
> > just a cheaper form of QSLing, especially since postage costs keep
> > going up and up and so many people don't want to bother with
> > QSLing anymore, at all, since it takes a lot of time to fill out
> > hundreds of cards each year.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Henk Remijn PA5KT
> > > email: pa5kt@
> > > www: www.pa5kt.com
> > >
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