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Re: [AQ_NFS] Identifying nFS as data source

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  • Gaylon Findlay
    I ve read not only Jim s original post on this topic, but also the responses to it. Let me respond to all of you that are interested in this issue from a big
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 27, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      I've read not only Jim's original post on this topic, but also the
      responses to it. Let me respond to all of you that are interested in
      this issue from a big picture standpoint.

      Automatically adding a source to information obtained from nFS has been
      an ongoing request of many users, and in fact was in the initial design
      of the AQ features dealing with nFS -- but it has not yet been realized.
      Part of the reason that we haven't implemented this yet is that we don't
      feel we have the best method for doing so, and we need more feedback.

      I can see that if you have found a new piece of information in nFS, that
      you might want it sourced as coming from nFS. However, you may have
      merely found a better spelling of a place, and you are using the sync
      capability for about the same purpose as a spell-checker. In this case,
      you would mark the item from nFS to be brought into your AQ database to
      improve your spelling. My guess is that you might not want this type of
      update to be shown as having nFS as the source.

      As a result, I don't believe it would be prudent to have a truly
      automatic capability to attach a source to items you take from nFS --
      you would want to attach such a source to some items, but not others.
      Which means that we'd have to add a checkbox on some screens, or have AQ
      ask questions via popups. This would cause additional time, energy and
      keystrokes each time you perform any synching operation. One concern
      that I have is adding complexity to the process of synching with nFS. As
      Tom Huber mentioned, the data you would get from nFS would be a lower
      level of quality in a source -- it's not an original source, rather it's
      more of a personal note to yourself as to where you looked for the
      information.

      So let me ask some specific questions:

      1) If you are on the Individual Sync screen, and click on the option box
      to move a data item from nFS to your record, would you like a checkbox
      on that screen to indicate that you want a source to be attached to the
      data? Or is there a better method?

      2) If you were to mark such a checkbox, would you always want the same
      source? Or would you have a short list of sources that you could choose
      from? Such as "LDS Temple Records" or "New.FamilySearch.org" or
      something else -- you would create the actual source, with title,
      author, etc the way you like, but you'd have a short list from which to
      select.

      3) If you are on the Family Sync screen, and import a new person to your
      file, do you want a source automatically added to the record of each
      person? Do you want a source added to each data item, such as Name,
      Birth, Death, Burial, Baptism, etc?

      4) If you use the Import Family Lines feature, do you want each imported
      person, and each piece of data to have a source attached? Would it
      always be the same source? Would you want AQ to ask you for each piece
      of data to select a source from a short list?

      So for any of you who are interested in attaching "nFS" as a source to
      information obtained from nFS: think through the questions above, and
      others that you might come up with as you sync your data with nFS. Put
      some thought into just how you would like AQ to handle some of the
      details. Let's have a bit of discussion, and see whether it makes sense
      to add such a feature, or whether it would be too cumbersome to be of
      value. (Remember that many users would not want to use this feature, so
      any solution should be unobtrusive -- you'd probably have to activate
      the feature in Preferences.)

      Gaylon



      On 9/9/2011 4:16 PM, JimLight wrote:
      > I have been using AQ for a couple of years now, but I only recently started
      > using the synchronization with nFS feature to find and update my db with LDS
      > Ordinance data. Previously, I used the synch feature, but did all the
      > updating of ordinance data manually.
      >
      >
      >
      > When I use AQ to update the ordinance data in my db, I would like AQ to also
      > update the source information for the entries updated so that later I know
      > that nFS was the source of the information. I'm sure that there is some
      > option I can click to make that happen, but I don't see it.
      >
      >
      >
      > Can someone tell me if this capability exists, and if so, how to invoke it?
      >
      >
      >
      > Thanks.
      >
      >
      >
      > Jim
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Allan Hale
      NFS is an opinion file UNTIL it allows quality sourcing. For those with lds account access to nfs go to the help center and request What is the future of
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 27, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        NFS is an opinion file UNTIL it allows quality sourcing. For those with lds account access to nfs go to the help center and request " What is the future of new.familysearch.org" (KD 112666) to see what is being considered. PAF Insight made that mistake of tagging each entry with an IGI source and I am still routing them out of my file.

        When the system allows quality sourcing then I would like to see it as a pass-through with the 'found on nfs' tag to qualify it.

        So the answer to #1 is a qualified yes but not yet.
        #2 See above. I want to know where the data really came from not what nfs says it is.(I still need to verify it though)
        #3 See above
        #4 See above.

        Opinion files are great places to start and most of the time have great stuff BUT I would rather see a quality 2 or 3 source. NFS is quality 1 at best.

        Allan Hale
        WWS Missionary


        >________________________________
        >From: Gaylon Findlay <gfindlay@...>
        >To: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com
        >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:22 PM
        >Subject: Re: [AQ_NFS] Identifying nFS as data source
        >
        >

        >I've read not only Jim's original post on this topic, but also the
        >responses to it. Let me respond to all of you that are interested in
        >this issue from a big picture standpoint.
        >
        >Automatically adding a source to information obtained from nFS has been
        >an ongoing request of many users, and in fact was in the initial design
        >of the AQ features dealing with nFS -- but it has not yet been realized.
        >Part of the reason that we haven't implemented this yet is that we don't
        >feel we have the best method for doing so, and we need more feedback.
        >
        >I can see that if you have found a new piece of information in nFS, that
        >you might want it sourced as coming from nFS. However, you may have
        >merely found a better spelling of a place, and you are using the sync
        >capability for about the same purpose as a spell-checker. In this case,
        >you would mark the item from nFS to be brought into your AQ database to
        >improve your spelling. My guess is that you might not want this type of
        >update to be shown as having nFS as the source.
        >
        >As a result, I don't believe it would be prudent to have a truly
        >automatic capability to attach a source to items you take from nFS --
        >you would want to attach such a source to some items, but not others.
        >Which means that we'd have to add a checkbox on some screens, or have AQ
        >ask questions via popups. This would cause additional time, energy and
        >keystrokes each time you perform any synching operation. One concern
        >that I have is adding complexity to the process of synching with nFS. As
        >Tom Huber mentioned, the data you would get from nFS would be a lower
        >level of quality in a source -- it's not an original source, rather it's
        >more of a personal note to yourself as to where you looked for the
        >information.
        >
        >So let me ask some specific questions:
        >
        >1) If you are on the Individual Sync screen, and click on the option box
        >to move a data item from nFS to your record, would you like a checkbox
        >on that screen to indicate that you want a source to be attached to the
        >data? Or is there a better method?
        >
        >2) If you were to mark such a checkbox, would you always want the same
        >source? Or would you have a short list of sources that you could choose
        >from? Such as "LDS Temple Records" or "New.FamilySearch.org" or
        >something else -- you would create the actual source, with title,
        >author, etc the way you like, but you'd have a short list from which to
        >select.
        >
        >3) If you are on the Family Sync screen, and import a new person to your
        >file, do you want a source automatically added to the record of each
        >person? Do you want a source added to each data item, such as Name,
        >Birth, Death, Burial, Baptism, etc?
        >
        >4) If you use the Import Family Lines feature, do you want each imported
        >person, and each piece of data to have a source attached? Would it
        >always be the same source? Would you want AQ to ask you for each piece
        >of data to select a source from a short list?
        >
        >So for any of you who are interested in attaching "nFS" as a source to
        >information obtained from nFS: think through the questions above, and
        >others that you might come up with as you sync your data with nFS. Put
        >some thought into just how you would like AQ to handle some of the
        >details. Let's have a bit of discussion, and see whether it makes sense
        >to add such a feature, or whether it would be too cumbersome to be of
        >value. (Remember that many users would not want to use this feature, so
        >any solution should be unobtrusive -- you'd probably have to activate
        >the feature in Preferences.)
        >
        >Gaylon
        >
        >On 9/9/2011 4:16 PM, JimLight wrote:
        >> I have been using AQ for a couple of years now, but I only recently started
        >> using the synchronization with nFS feature to find and update my db with LDS
        >> Ordinance data. Previously, I used the synch feature, but did all the
        >> updating of ordinance data manually.
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> When I use AQ to update the ordinance data in my db, I would like AQ to also
        >> update the source information for the entries updated so that later I know
        >> that nFS was the source of the information. I'm sure that there is some
        >> option I can click to make that happen, but I don't see it.
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Can someone tell me if this capability exists, and if so, how to invoke it?
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Thanks.
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Jim
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> ------------------------------------
        >>
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Margaret Thompson
        Gaylon, Personally I do not want to use nFS as a source so I would want any enhancement to have a checkbox to activate it or not as it suits the individual.
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 3, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Gaylon,

          Personally I do not want to use nFS as a source so I would want any
          enhancement to have a checkbox to activate it or not as it suits the
          individual.

          Thank you for all you do.

          Margaret

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Gaylon Findlay
          Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:22 PM
          To: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [AQ_NFS] Identifying nFS as data source

          I've read not only Jim's original post on this topic, but also the
          responses to it. Let me respond to all of you that are interested in
          this issue from a big picture standpoint.

          Automatically adding a source to information obtained from nFS has been
          an ongoing request of many users, and in fact was in the initial design
          of the AQ features dealing with nFS -- but it has not yet been realized.
          Part of the reason that we haven't implemented this yet is that we don't
          feel we have the best method for doing so, and we need more feedback.

          I can see that if you have found a new piece of information in nFS, that
          you might want it sourced as coming from nFS. However, you may have
          merely found a better spelling of a place, and you are using the sync
          capability for about the same purpose as a spell-checker. In this case,
          you would mark the item from nFS to be brought into your AQ database to
          improve your spelling. My guess is that you might not want this type of
          update to be shown as having nFS as the source.

          As a result, I don't believe it would be prudent to have a truly
          automatic capability to attach a source to items you take from nFS --
          you would want to attach such a source to some items, but not others.
          Which means that we'd have to add a checkbox on some screens, or have AQ
          ask questions via popups. This would cause additional time, energy and
          keystrokes each time you perform any synching operation. One concern
          that I have is adding complexity to the process of synching with nFS. As
          Tom Huber mentioned, the data you would get from nFS would be a lower
          level of quality in a source -- it's not an original source, rather it's
          more of a personal note to yourself as to where you looked for the
          information.

          So let me ask some specific questions:

          1) If you are on the Individual Sync screen, and click on the option box
          to move a data item from nFS to your record, would you like a checkbox
          on that screen to indicate that you want a source to be attached to the
          data? Or is there a better method?

          2) If you were to mark such a checkbox, would you always want the same
          source? Or would you have a short list of sources that you could choose
          from? Such as "LDS Temple Records" or "New.FamilySearch.org" or
          something else -- you would create the actual source, with title,
          author, etc the way you like, but you'd have a short list from which to
          select.

          3) If you are on the Family Sync screen, and import a new person to your
          file, do you want a source automatically added to the record of each
          person? Do you want a source added to each data item, such as Name,
          Birth, Death, Burial, Baptism, etc?

          4) If you use the Import Family Lines feature, do you want each imported
          person, and each piece of data to have a source attached? Would it
          always be the same source? Would you want AQ to ask you for each piece
          of data to select a source from a short list?

          So for any of you who are interested in attaching "nFS" as a source to
          information obtained from nFS: think through the questions above, and
          others that you might come up with as you sync your data with nFS. Put
          some thought into just how you would like AQ to handle some of the
          details. Let's have a bit of discussion, and see whether it makes sense
          to add such a feature, or whether it would be too cumbersome to be of
          value. (Remember that many users would not want to use this feature, so
          any solution should be unobtrusive -- you'd probably have to activate
          the feature in Preferences.)

          Gaylon



          On 9/9/2011 4:16 PM, JimLight wrote:
          > I have been using AQ for a couple of years now, but I only recently
          > started
          > using the synchronization with nFS feature to find and update my db with
          > LDS
          > Ordinance data. Previously, I used the synch feature, but did all the
          > updating of ordinance data manually.
          >
          >
          >
          > When I use AQ to update the ordinance data in my db, I would like AQ to
          > also
          > update the source information for the entries updated so that later I know
          > that nFS was the source of the information. I'm sure that there is some
          > option I can click to make that happen, but I don't see it.
          >
          >
          >
          > Can someone tell me if this capability exists, and if so, how to invoke
          > it?
          >
          >
          >
          > Thanks.
          >
          >
          >
          > Jim
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • JimLight
          Gaylon, Sorry to take so long to get back to you - it s been a busy week. First, let me thank you for taking my request seriously, particularly after some of
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 6, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Gaylon,



            Sorry to take so long to get back to you - it's been a busy week.



            First, let me thank you for taking my request seriously, particularly after
            some of the responses to it. I appreciate your thoughtful consideration of
            my request.



            Second, I understand the position taken by some of the responders, that they
            don't consider nFS a source. However, they have not convinced me to cease
            using other genealogies as sources until I can find better sources to prove
            or disprove the data collected, and my only hesitation is my original one,
            namely, that when I obtain this data using AQ tools, there is no
            accompanying documentation to help me later know where I acquired the data.
            Notwithstanding the criticism of PAF Insight and the way it did such
            documentation, I found it to be very helpful.



            Third, I can see you have done a great deal of thinking about this function,
            and you provide some difficult choices to think about in how I would like to
            see the function work.



            I do not agree with your paragraph that includes "In this case, you would
            mark the item . " From my view, if you are capturing data from another data
            base, it does not matter if it is merely a better spelling; the fact that I
            found the data interesting enough to capture it makes it worthy of having
            the source of this data identified. I do NOT want to attach a source to
            some items, and not to others.



            So here is my feedback (responses synched with your question numbers).



            1) Prefer no checkbox - just capture the data and source where it came
            from.

            2) N/A for the most part due to my answer to the previous question. I
            like the idea that I can format the source, but I prefer to keep it simple
            and to use the same source for all such captures. PAF Insight had a nice
            feature that permitted the IGI comparison function to be applied to other
            databases. It made it easy to capture selected pieces of data from db's
            provided by some of my cousins. It would be nice to have a unique source
            for any db from which I was capturing data, if AQ ever had such a feature,
            but if nFS will be the only such db, then only one such source is required.

            3) I prefer to have the source added to each item captured.

            4) I have not used the Family Lines feature, but I suspect I would
            want to keep it simple and have a source attached to each piece of data
            captured.



            I'd be happy to have the source identification of data captured feature
            selectable, i.e., selectable once, not every time I use AQ. Putting it in
            Preferences would be satisfactory. By making it selectable, those who think
            this is a bad idea do not need to use it. I just wish they wouldn't lecture
            me on how I should do my genealogy.



            Thanks again for your consideration, and for making such a great product for
            us to use.



            Jim







            _____

            From: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            Gaylon Findlay
            Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 7:22 PM
            To: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [AQ_NFS] Identifying nFS as data source





            I've read not only Jim's original post on this topic, but also the
            responses to it. Let me respond to all of you that are interested in
            this issue from a big picture standpoint.

            Automatically adding a source to information obtained from nFS has been
            an ongoing request of many users, and in fact was in the initial design
            of the AQ features dealing with nFS -- but it has not yet been realized.
            Part of the reason that we haven't implemented this yet is that we don't
            feel we have the best method for doing so, and we need more feedback.

            I can see that if you have found a new piece of information in nFS, that
            you might want it sourced as coming from nFS. However, you may have
            merely found a better spelling of a place, and you are using the sync
            capability for about the same purpose as a spell-checker. In this case,
            you would mark the item from nFS to be brought into your AQ database to
            improve your spelling. My guess is that you might not want this type of
            update to be shown as having nFS as the source.

            As a result, I don't believe it would be prudent to have a truly
            automatic capability to attach a source to items you take from nFS --
            you would want to attach such a source to some items, but not others.
            Which means that we'd have to add a checkbox on some screens, or have AQ
            ask questions via popups. This would cause additional time, energy and
            keystrokes each time you perform any synching operation. One concern
            that I have is adding complexity to the process of synching with nFS. As
            Tom Huber mentioned, the data you would get from nFS would be a lower
            level of quality in a source -- it's not an original source, rather it's
            more of a personal note to yourself as to where you looked for the
            information.

            So let me ask some specific questions:

            1) If you are on the Individual Sync screen, and click on the option box
            to move a data item from nFS to your record, would you like a checkbox
            on that screen to indicate that you want a source to be attached to the
            data? Or is there a better method?

            2) If you were to mark such a checkbox, would you always want the same
            source? Or would you have a short list of sources that you could choose
            from? Such as "LDS Temple Records" or "New.FamilySearch.org" or
            something else -- you would create the actual source, with title,
            author, etc the way you like, but you'd have a short list from which to
            select.

            3) If you are on the Family Sync screen, and import a new person to your
            file, do you want a source automatically added to the record of each
            person? Do you want a source added to each data item, such as Name,
            Birth, Death, Burial, Baptism, etc?

            4) If you use the Import Family Lines feature, do you want each imported
            person, and each piece of data to have a source attached? Would it
            always be the same source? Would you want AQ to ask you for each piece
            of data to select a source from a short list?

            So for any of you who are interested in attaching "nFS" as a source to
            information obtained from nFS: think through the questions above, and
            others that you might come up with as you sync your data with nFS. Put
            some thought into just how you would like AQ to handle some of the
            details. Let's have a bit of discussion, and see whether it makes sense
            to add such a feature, or whether it would be too cumbersome to be of
            value. (Remember that many users would not want to use this feature, so
            any solution should be unobtrusive -- you'd probably have to activate
            the feature in Preferences.)

            Gaylon

            On 9/9/2011 4:16 PM, JimLight wrote:
            > I have been using AQ for a couple of years now, but I only recently
            started
            > using the synchronization with nFS feature to find and update my db with
            LDS
            > Ordinance data. Previously, I used the synch feature, but did all the
            > updating of ordinance data manually.
            >
            >
            >
            > When I use AQ to update the ordinance data in my db, I would like AQ to
            also
            > update the source information for the entries updated so that later I know
            > that nFS was the source of the information. I'm sure that there is some
            > option I can click to make that happen, but I don't see it.
            >
            >
            >
            > Can someone tell me if this capability exists, and if so, how to invoke
            it?
            >
            >
            >
            > Thanks.
            >
            >
            >
            > Jim
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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