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Re: Identifying nFS as data source

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  • thomas_nevin_huber
    ... That s a good place to put the reference. In the publisher info, I put on-line database , but don t credit which one I use, mostly because I tend to grab
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 11, 2011
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      --- In AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com, Sally <fbsb@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Tom,
      >
      > I have been following your discussion of sourcing in AQ. Your premise makes perfect sense to me but leaves me with a question. I'm an old-timer when it comes to genealogical research and, in the case of the U.S. Federal Census records, I have used National Archives and Records Administration as the source where I actually found the record at a NARA site (Seattle, St. Louis, etc.) and I use Ancestry.com with "Additional info: digital image by subscription", when that is where I located the record. Would you change that as well?

      That's a good place to put the reference. In the publisher info, I put "on-line database", but don't credit which one I use, mostly because I tend to grab information from at least three different sources: FamilySearch.org (in the new version of the website), Heritage Quest, and Ancestry.

      I use publisher info to indicate whether the source is an on-line database, a printed book (with the repository being the library where it is located), or an on-line digitized book (with a repository for one of the libraries where the actual book can be found).
      >
      > Thanks for your input on this subject, but the more I think about this, the more inclined I am to leave it as I have it. Those reading my records in years to come can still follow my footsteps and locate the record, which is my goal.

      Yes, I would not change it, either. You mentioned something that is very important to sourcing. The idea of a source citation is so that a future researcher can use the information you provide to find the original document you found, no matter where it might be located. Where there are multiple places it can be found (as is the case for census records), then you citation works very well.

      Best regards,

      Tom Huber
    • Gaylon Findlay
      I ve read not only Jim s original post on this topic, but also the responses to it. Let me respond to all of you that are interested in this issue from a big
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 27, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        I've read not only Jim's original post on this topic, but also the
        responses to it. Let me respond to all of you that are interested in
        this issue from a big picture standpoint.

        Automatically adding a source to information obtained from nFS has been
        an ongoing request of many users, and in fact was in the initial design
        of the AQ features dealing with nFS -- but it has not yet been realized.
        Part of the reason that we haven't implemented this yet is that we don't
        feel we have the best method for doing so, and we need more feedback.

        I can see that if you have found a new piece of information in nFS, that
        you might want it sourced as coming from nFS. However, you may have
        merely found a better spelling of a place, and you are using the sync
        capability for about the same purpose as a spell-checker. In this case,
        you would mark the item from nFS to be brought into your AQ database to
        improve your spelling. My guess is that you might not want this type of
        update to be shown as having nFS as the source.

        As a result, I don't believe it would be prudent to have a truly
        automatic capability to attach a source to items you take from nFS --
        you would want to attach such a source to some items, but not others.
        Which means that we'd have to add a checkbox on some screens, or have AQ
        ask questions via popups. This would cause additional time, energy and
        keystrokes each time you perform any synching operation. One concern
        that I have is adding complexity to the process of synching with nFS. As
        Tom Huber mentioned, the data you would get from nFS would be a lower
        level of quality in a source -- it's not an original source, rather it's
        more of a personal note to yourself as to where you looked for the
        information.

        So let me ask some specific questions:

        1) If you are on the Individual Sync screen, and click on the option box
        to move a data item from nFS to your record, would you like a checkbox
        on that screen to indicate that you want a source to be attached to the
        data? Or is there a better method?

        2) If you were to mark such a checkbox, would you always want the same
        source? Or would you have a short list of sources that you could choose
        from? Such as "LDS Temple Records" or "New.FamilySearch.org" or
        something else -- you would create the actual source, with title,
        author, etc the way you like, but you'd have a short list from which to
        select.

        3) If you are on the Family Sync screen, and import a new person to your
        file, do you want a source automatically added to the record of each
        person? Do you want a source added to each data item, such as Name,
        Birth, Death, Burial, Baptism, etc?

        4) If you use the Import Family Lines feature, do you want each imported
        person, and each piece of data to have a source attached? Would it
        always be the same source? Would you want AQ to ask you for each piece
        of data to select a source from a short list?

        So for any of you who are interested in attaching "nFS" as a source to
        information obtained from nFS: think through the questions above, and
        others that you might come up with as you sync your data with nFS. Put
        some thought into just how you would like AQ to handle some of the
        details. Let's have a bit of discussion, and see whether it makes sense
        to add such a feature, or whether it would be too cumbersome to be of
        value. (Remember that many users would not want to use this feature, so
        any solution should be unobtrusive -- you'd probably have to activate
        the feature in Preferences.)

        Gaylon



        On 9/9/2011 4:16 PM, JimLight wrote:
        > I have been using AQ for a couple of years now, but I only recently started
        > using the synchronization with nFS feature to find and update my db with LDS
        > Ordinance data. Previously, I used the synch feature, but did all the
        > updating of ordinance data manually.
        >
        >
        >
        > When I use AQ to update the ordinance data in my db, I would like AQ to also
        > update the source information for the entries updated so that later I know
        > that nFS was the source of the information. I'm sure that there is some
        > option I can click to make that happen, but I don't see it.
        >
        >
        >
        > Can someone tell me if this capability exists, and if so, how to invoke it?
        >
        >
        >
        > Thanks.
        >
        >
        >
        > Jim
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Allan Hale
        NFS is an opinion file UNTIL it allows quality sourcing. For those with lds account access to nfs go to the help center and request What is the future of
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 27, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          NFS is an opinion file UNTIL it allows quality sourcing. For those with lds account access to nfs go to the help center and request " What is the future of new.familysearch.org" (KD 112666) to see what is being considered. PAF Insight made that mistake of tagging each entry with an IGI source and I am still routing them out of my file.

          When the system allows quality sourcing then I would like to see it as a pass-through with the 'found on nfs' tag to qualify it.

          So the answer to #1 is a qualified yes but not yet.
          #2 See above. I want to know where the data really came from not what nfs says it is.(I still need to verify it though)
          #3 See above
          #4 See above.

          Opinion files are great places to start and most of the time have great stuff BUT I would rather see a quality 2 or 3 source. NFS is quality 1 at best.

          Allan Hale
          WWS Missionary


          >________________________________
          >From: Gaylon Findlay <gfindlay@...>
          >To: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com
          >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:22 PM
          >Subject: Re: [AQ_NFS] Identifying nFS as data source
          >
          >

          >I've read not only Jim's original post on this topic, but also the
          >responses to it. Let me respond to all of you that are interested in
          >this issue from a big picture standpoint.
          >
          >Automatically adding a source to information obtained from nFS has been
          >an ongoing request of many users, and in fact was in the initial design
          >of the AQ features dealing with nFS -- but it has not yet been realized.
          >Part of the reason that we haven't implemented this yet is that we don't
          >feel we have the best method for doing so, and we need more feedback.
          >
          >I can see that if you have found a new piece of information in nFS, that
          >you might want it sourced as coming from nFS. However, you may have
          >merely found a better spelling of a place, and you are using the sync
          >capability for about the same purpose as a spell-checker. In this case,
          >you would mark the item from nFS to be brought into your AQ database to
          >improve your spelling. My guess is that you might not want this type of
          >update to be shown as having nFS as the source.
          >
          >As a result, I don't believe it would be prudent to have a truly
          >automatic capability to attach a source to items you take from nFS --
          >you would want to attach such a source to some items, but not others.
          >Which means that we'd have to add a checkbox on some screens, or have AQ
          >ask questions via popups. This would cause additional time, energy and
          >keystrokes each time you perform any synching operation. One concern
          >that I have is adding complexity to the process of synching with nFS. As
          >Tom Huber mentioned, the data you would get from nFS would be a lower
          >level of quality in a source -- it's not an original source, rather it's
          >more of a personal note to yourself as to where you looked for the
          >information.
          >
          >So let me ask some specific questions:
          >
          >1) If you are on the Individual Sync screen, and click on the option box
          >to move a data item from nFS to your record, would you like a checkbox
          >on that screen to indicate that you want a source to be attached to the
          >data? Or is there a better method?
          >
          >2) If you were to mark such a checkbox, would you always want the same
          >source? Or would you have a short list of sources that you could choose
          >from? Such as "LDS Temple Records" or "New.FamilySearch.org" or
          >something else -- you would create the actual source, with title,
          >author, etc the way you like, but you'd have a short list from which to
          >select.
          >
          >3) If you are on the Family Sync screen, and import a new person to your
          >file, do you want a source automatically added to the record of each
          >person? Do you want a source added to each data item, such as Name,
          >Birth, Death, Burial, Baptism, etc?
          >
          >4) If you use the Import Family Lines feature, do you want each imported
          >person, and each piece of data to have a source attached? Would it
          >always be the same source? Would you want AQ to ask you for each piece
          >of data to select a source from a short list?
          >
          >So for any of you who are interested in attaching "nFS" as a source to
          >information obtained from nFS: think through the questions above, and
          >others that you might come up with as you sync your data with nFS. Put
          >some thought into just how you would like AQ to handle some of the
          >details. Let's have a bit of discussion, and see whether it makes sense
          >to add such a feature, or whether it would be too cumbersome to be of
          >value. (Remember that many users would not want to use this feature, so
          >any solution should be unobtrusive -- you'd probably have to activate
          >the feature in Preferences.)
          >
          >Gaylon
          >
          >On 9/9/2011 4:16 PM, JimLight wrote:
          >> I have been using AQ for a couple of years now, but I only recently started
          >> using the synchronization with nFS feature to find and update my db with LDS
          >> Ordinance data. Previously, I used the synch feature, but did all the
          >> updating of ordinance data manually.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> When I use AQ to update the ordinance data in my db, I would like AQ to also
          >> update the source information for the entries updated so that later I know
          >> that nFS was the source of the information. I'm sure that there is some
          >> option I can click to make that happen, but I don't see it.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> Can someone tell me if this capability exists, and if so, how to invoke it?
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> Thanks.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> Jim
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Margaret Thompson
          Gaylon, Personally I do not want to use nFS as a source so I would want any enhancement to have a checkbox to activate it or not as it suits the individual.
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 3, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Gaylon,

            Personally I do not want to use nFS as a source so I would want any
            enhancement to have a checkbox to activate it or not as it suits the
            individual.

            Thank you for all you do.

            Margaret

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Gaylon Findlay
            Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:22 PM
            To: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [AQ_NFS] Identifying nFS as data source

            I've read not only Jim's original post on this topic, but also the
            responses to it. Let me respond to all of you that are interested in
            this issue from a big picture standpoint.

            Automatically adding a source to information obtained from nFS has been
            an ongoing request of many users, and in fact was in the initial design
            of the AQ features dealing with nFS -- but it has not yet been realized.
            Part of the reason that we haven't implemented this yet is that we don't
            feel we have the best method for doing so, and we need more feedback.

            I can see that if you have found a new piece of information in nFS, that
            you might want it sourced as coming from nFS. However, you may have
            merely found a better spelling of a place, and you are using the sync
            capability for about the same purpose as a spell-checker. In this case,
            you would mark the item from nFS to be brought into your AQ database to
            improve your spelling. My guess is that you might not want this type of
            update to be shown as having nFS as the source.

            As a result, I don't believe it would be prudent to have a truly
            automatic capability to attach a source to items you take from nFS --
            you would want to attach such a source to some items, but not others.
            Which means that we'd have to add a checkbox on some screens, or have AQ
            ask questions via popups. This would cause additional time, energy and
            keystrokes each time you perform any synching operation. One concern
            that I have is adding complexity to the process of synching with nFS. As
            Tom Huber mentioned, the data you would get from nFS would be a lower
            level of quality in a source -- it's not an original source, rather it's
            more of a personal note to yourself as to where you looked for the
            information.

            So let me ask some specific questions:

            1) If you are on the Individual Sync screen, and click on the option box
            to move a data item from nFS to your record, would you like a checkbox
            on that screen to indicate that you want a source to be attached to the
            data? Or is there a better method?

            2) If you were to mark such a checkbox, would you always want the same
            source? Or would you have a short list of sources that you could choose
            from? Such as "LDS Temple Records" or "New.FamilySearch.org" or
            something else -- you would create the actual source, with title,
            author, etc the way you like, but you'd have a short list from which to
            select.

            3) If you are on the Family Sync screen, and import a new person to your
            file, do you want a source automatically added to the record of each
            person? Do you want a source added to each data item, such as Name,
            Birth, Death, Burial, Baptism, etc?

            4) If you use the Import Family Lines feature, do you want each imported
            person, and each piece of data to have a source attached? Would it
            always be the same source? Would you want AQ to ask you for each piece
            of data to select a source from a short list?

            So for any of you who are interested in attaching "nFS" as a source to
            information obtained from nFS: think through the questions above, and
            others that you might come up with as you sync your data with nFS. Put
            some thought into just how you would like AQ to handle some of the
            details. Let's have a bit of discussion, and see whether it makes sense
            to add such a feature, or whether it would be too cumbersome to be of
            value. (Remember that many users would not want to use this feature, so
            any solution should be unobtrusive -- you'd probably have to activate
            the feature in Preferences.)

            Gaylon



            On 9/9/2011 4:16 PM, JimLight wrote:
            > I have been using AQ for a couple of years now, but I only recently
            > started
            > using the synchronization with nFS feature to find and update my db with
            > LDS
            > Ordinance data. Previously, I used the synch feature, but did all the
            > updating of ordinance data manually.
            >
            >
            >
            > When I use AQ to update the ordinance data in my db, I would like AQ to
            > also
            > update the source information for the entries updated so that later I know
            > that nFS was the source of the information. I'm sure that there is some
            > option I can click to make that happen, but I don't see it.
            >
            >
            >
            > Can someone tell me if this capability exists, and if so, how to invoke
            > it?
            >
            >
            >
            > Thanks.
            >
            >
            >
            > Jim
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >


            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • JimLight
            Gaylon, Sorry to take so long to get back to you - it s been a busy week. First, let me thank you for taking my request seriously, particularly after some of
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 6, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Gaylon,



              Sorry to take so long to get back to you - it's been a busy week.



              First, let me thank you for taking my request seriously, particularly after
              some of the responses to it. I appreciate your thoughtful consideration of
              my request.



              Second, I understand the position taken by some of the responders, that they
              don't consider nFS a source. However, they have not convinced me to cease
              using other genealogies as sources until I can find better sources to prove
              or disprove the data collected, and my only hesitation is my original one,
              namely, that when I obtain this data using AQ tools, there is no
              accompanying documentation to help me later know where I acquired the data.
              Notwithstanding the criticism of PAF Insight and the way it did such
              documentation, I found it to be very helpful.



              Third, I can see you have done a great deal of thinking about this function,
              and you provide some difficult choices to think about in how I would like to
              see the function work.



              I do not agree with your paragraph that includes "In this case, you would
              mark the item . " From my view, if you are capturing data from another data
              base, it does not matter if it is merely a better spelling; the fact that I
              found the data interesting enough to capture it makes it worthy of having
              the source of this data identified. I do NOT want to attach a source to
              some items, and not to others.



              So here is my feedback (responses synched with your question numbers).



              1) Prefer no checkbox - just capture the data and source where it came
              from.

              2) N/A for the most part due to my answer to the previous question. I
              like the idea that I can format the source, but I prefer to keep it simple
              and to use the same source for all such captures. PAF Insight had a nice
              feature that permitted the IGI comparison function to be applied to other
              databases. It made it easy to capture selected pieces of data from db's
              provided by some of my cousins. It would be nice to have a unique source
              for any db from which I was capturing data, if AQ ever had such a feature,
              but if nFS will be the only such db, then only one such source is required.

              3) I prefer to have the source added to each item captured.

              4) I have not used the Family Lines feature, but I suspect I would
              want to keep it simple and have a source attached to each piece of data
              captured.



              I'd be happy to have the source identification of data captured feature
              selectable, i.e., selectable once, not every time I use AQ. Putting it in
              Preferences would be satisfactory. By making it selectable, those who think
              this is a bad idea do not need to use it. I just wish they wouldn't lecture
              me on how I should do my genealogy.



              Thanks again for your consideration, and for making such a great product for
              us to use.



              Jim







              _____

              From: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Gaylon Findlay
              Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 7:22 PM
              To: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [AQ_NFS] Identifying nFS as data source





              I've read not only Jim's original post on this topic, but also the
              responses to it. Let me respond to all of you that are interested in
              this issue from a big picture standpoint.

              Automatically adding a source to information obtained from nFS has been
              an ongoing request of many users, and in fact was in the initial design
              of the AQ features dealing with nFS -- but it has not yet been realized.
              Part of the reason that we haven't implemented this yet is that we don't
              feel we have the best method for doing so, and we need more feedback.

              I can see that if you have found a new piece of information in nFS, that
              you might want it sourced as coming from nFS. However, you may have
              merely found a better spelling of a place, and you are using the sync
              capability for about the same purpose as a spell-checker. In this case,
              you would mark the item from nFS to be brought into your AQ database to
              improve your spelling. My guess is that you might not want this type of
              update to be shown as having nFS as the source.

              As a result, I don't believe it would be prudent to have a truly
              automatic capability to attach a source to items you take from nFS --
              you would want to attach such a source to some items, but not others.
              Which means that we'd have to add a checkbox on some screens, or have AQ
              ask questions via popups. This would cause additional time, energy and
              keystrokes each time you perform any synching operation. One concern
              that I have is adding complexity to the process of synching with nFS. As
              Tom Huber mentioned, the data you would get from nFS would be a lower
              level of quality in a source -- it's not an original source, rather it's
              more of a personal note to yourself as to where you looked for the
              information.

              So let me ask some specific questions:

              1) If you are on the Individual Sync screen, and click on the option box
              to move a data item from nFS to your record, would you like a checkbox
              on that screen to indicate that you want a source to be attached to the
              data? Or is there a better method?

              2) If you were to mark such a checkbox, would you always want the same
              source? Or would you have a short list of sources that you could choose
              from? Such as "LDS Temple Records" or "New.FamilySearch.org" or
              something else -- you would create the actual source, with title,
              author, etc the way you like, but you'd have a short list from which to
              select.

              3) If you are on the Family Sync screen, and import a new person to your
              file, do you want a source automatically added to the record of each
              person? Do you want a source added to each data item, such as Name,
              Birth, Death, Burial, Baptism, etc?

              4) If you use the Import Family Lines feature, do you want each imported
              person, and each piece of data to have a source attached? Would it
              always be the same source? Would you want AQ to ask you for each piece
              of data to select a source from a short list?

              So for any of you who are interested in attaching "nFS" as a source to
              information obtained from nFS: think through the questions above, and
              others that you might come up with as you sync your data with nFS. Put
              some thought into just how you would like AQ to handle some of the
              details. Let's have a bit of discussion, and see whether it makes sense
              to add such a feature, or whether it would be too cumbersome to be of
              value. (Remember that many users would not want to use this feature, so
              any solution should be unobtrusive -- you'd probably have to activate
              the feature in Preferences.)

              Gaylon

              On 9/9/2011 4:16 PM, JimLight wrote:
              > I have been using AQ for a couple of years now, but I only recently
              started
              > using the synchronization with nFS feature to find and update my db with
              LDS
              > Ordinance data. Previously, I used the synch feature, but did all the
              > updating of ordinance data manually.
              >
              >
              >
              > When I use AQ to update the ordinance data in my db, I would like AQ to
              also
              > update the source information for the entries updated so that later I know
              > that nFS was the source of the information. I'm sure that there is some
              > option I can click to make that happen, but I don't see it.
              >
              >
              >
              > Can someone tell me if this capability exists, and if so, how to invoke
              it?
              >
              >
              >
              > Thanks.
              >
              >
              >
              > Jim
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >





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