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Re: Identifying nFS as data source

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  • thomas_nevin_huber
    ... The source of ordinance data is not nFS, but the Temple Ordinance Records, whose dates and places are accessed through nFS (to be renamed Family Tree in
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 10, 2011
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      --- In AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com, "JimLight" <jimlight@...> wrote:
      >
      > I have been using AQ for a couple of years now, but I only recently started using the synchronization with nFS feature to find and update my db with LDS Ordinance data. Previously, I used the synch feature, but did all the updating of ordinance data manually.
      >
      > When I use AQ to update the ordinance data in my db, I would like AQ to also update the source information for the entries updated so that later I know that nFS was the source of the information. I'm sure that there is some option I can click to make that happen, but I don't see it.

      The source of ordinance data is not nFS, but the Temple Ordinance Records, whose dates and places are accessed through nFS (to be renamed Family Tree in the future). Likewise, nFS should be treated the same as any set of family trees, like One World Tree, etc., with a great deal of caution and plenty of backup source material to support the dates you put in your own ancestral file.

      I recently served as a missionary for the Family and Church History Mission and was an assistant group leader in the training zone. Many members mistakenly believe that the information contained in nFS is accurate and that the family connections made through the Temple Ordinance Sealings are the final word. They aren't.

      Currently, some 80 percent of all the problems existing in nFS search are caused by sealings of families that were never properly researched. Work is on-going to develop ways to correct those records and allow us to properly document and source all of the information in nFS and beyond. It may take several more years before it is possible to accomplish that.

      In the meantime, the best we can do is to make sure that our personal records, kept apart from nFS, are accurate and fully sourced. That includes family units.

      Sources come in three flavors: primary (usually government or other "official" records, including Church membership records (also available for deceased relatives through nFS); secondary -- records made after the fact, including census, delayed birth certificates, birth information on death records (the death record is the primary source only for the death date), obituaries, social security death index, draft and military records, and so on; other -- compilations, such as family, county, and community histories, and family trees, such as nFS, One World Tree, Ancestry.com family trees, and so on.

      All events need to be fully sourced with as many records as can be found. A single record is insufficient if other records are available.

      nFS, not only because it will be undergoing a name change in the future, should not be used as a source -- The repository is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You are only accessing the records (Church membership and Temple ordinance) through nFS, which acts as a portal, much like Ancestry.com acts as a portal to U.S. Federal Census records, whose repository is National Archives and Records Administration, 7th & Pennsylvania Ave., NW, Washington, DC 20408.

      Hopefully, this will help.

      Best regards,

      Tom Huber
    • JimLight
      Tom, Thanks for the unneeded lecture. Ordinance information MUST be taken from either nFS or from work that I do myself at the temple. Since one of the main
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 10, 2011
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        Tom,



        Thanks for the unneeded lecture.



        Ordinance information MUST be taken from either nFS or from work that I do
        myself at the temple. Since one of the main reasons for creating nFS was to
        reduce duplicate ordinances, I will not attempt to do ordinance work for
        those who already have it done, as recorded in nFS. Instead, I will capture
        the ordinance data recorded in nFS, and consider that that ordinance work is
        completed, unless I discover that the genealogical data for the individual
        or the family involved is incorrect to the point that the ordinance work
        must be considered incorrect and still needed.



        When I capture this ordinance data from nFS (whether I do it manually or via
        AQ), I want to document where I got the data. That way, if I subsequently
        discover errors in the records, I will know where they came from and what
        steps I need to do to correct the errors. When I record the ordinance data
        manually, I indicate the source to be Family Search. Similarly, when I used
        to capture data from the IGI using PAF Insight, that software would record
        where and when I captured the data from the IGI.



        I'm simply asking how this can automatically be accomplished using AQ, and
        if the function is not currently available in AQ, I would like to request
        that it be added.



        Please don't tell me I should not capture data from whatever source I choose
        to use. I can find value even in OneWorldTree, which I know to be of very
        poor quality. It at least gives me a starting point for my own research.
        nFS is better than that, since it also provides me the ONLY method for
        submitting names to the temple for the ordinance work to be done.



        Sigh.



        Jim







        _____

        From: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        thomas_nevin_huber
        Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 11:35 AM
        To: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [AQ_NFS] Re: Identifying nFS as data source





        --- In AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AQ_NFS%40yahoogroups.com> , "JimLight"
        <jimlight@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have been using AQ for a couple of years now, but I only recently
        started using the synchronization with nFS feature to find and update my db
        with LDS Ordinance data. Previously, I used the synch feature, but did all
        the updating of ordinance data manually.
        >
        > When I use AQ to update the ordinance data in my db, I would like AQ to
        also update the source information for the entries updated so that later I
        know that nFS was the source of the information. I'm sure that there is some
        option I can click to make that happen, but I don't see it.

        The source of ordinance data is not nFS, but the Temple Ordinance Records,
        whose dates and places are accessed through nFS (to be renamed Family Tree
        in the future). Likewise, nFS should be treated the same as any set of
        family trees, like One World Tree, etc., with a great deal of caution and
        plenty of backup source material to support the dates you put in your own
        ancestral file.

        I recently served as a missionary for the Family and Church History Mission
        and was an assistant group leader in the training zone. Many members
        mistakenly believe that the information contained in nFS is accurate and
        that the family connections made through the Temple Ordinance Sealings are
        the final word. They aren't.

        Currently, some 80 percent of all the problems existing in nFS search are
        caused by sealings of families that were never properly researched. Work is
        on-going to develop ways to correct those records and allow us to properly
        document and source all of the information in nFS and beyond. It may take
        several more years before it is possible to accomplish that.

        In the meantime, the best we can do is to make sure that our personal
        records, kept apart from nFS, are accurate and fully sourced. That includes
        family units.

        Sources come in three flavors: primary (usually government or other
        "official" records, including Church membership records (also available for
        deceased relatives through nFS); secondary -- records made after the fact,
        including census, delayed birth certificates, birth information on death
        records (the death record is the primary source only for the death date),
        obituaries, social security death index, draft and military records, and so
        on; other -- compilations, such as family, county, and community histories,
        and family trees, such as nFS, One World Tree, Ancestry.com family trees,
        and so on.

        All events need to be fully sourced with as many records as can be found. A
        single record is insufficient if other records are available.

        nFS, not only because it will be undergoing a name change in the future,
        should not be used as a source -- The repository is The Church of Jesus
        Christ of Latter-day Saints. You are only accessing the records (Church
        membership and Temple ordinance) through nFS, which acts as a portal, much
        like Ancestry.com acts as a portal to U.S. Federal Census records, whose
        repository is National Archives and Records Administration, 7th &
        Pennsylvania Ave., NW, Washington, DC 20408.

        Hopefully, this will help.

        Best regards,

        Tom Huber





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Leslie Vaughn
        Jim Just consider Tom s response for all of us not just yourself. As this is a forum, various people can benefit from the answers to your questions. I can
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 10, 2011
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          Jim

          Just consider Tom's response for all of us not just yourself. As this is a forum, various people can benefit from the answers to your questions. I can understand what you want and why but I also understand Tom's response to be a good lesson in sources and documentation. Something I learned at BYU in genealogy 101 over 45 years ago. But not every one in the current genealogy community understands how to rate sources and how to substantiate them. I am sure someone on this forum benefited from Tom's response. I know I did.

          Leslie






          From: JimLight
          Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 7:02 PM
          To: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [AQ_NFS] Re: Identifying nFS as data source



          Tom,

          Thanks for the unneeded lecture.

          Ordinance information MUST be taken from either nFS or from work that I do
          myself at the temple. Since one of the main reasons for creating nFS was to
          reduce duplicate ordinances, I will not attempt to do ordinance work for
          those who already have it done, as recorded in nFS. Instead, I will capture
          the ordinance data recorded in nFS, and consider that that ordinance work is
          completed, unless I discover that the genealogical data for the individual
          or the family involved is incorrect to the point that the ordinance work
          must be considered incorrect and still needed.

          When I capture this ordinance data from nFS (whether I do it manually or via
          AQ), I want to document where I got the data. That way, if I subsequently
          discover errors in the records, I will know where they came from and what
          steps I need to do to correct the errors. When I record the ordinance data
          manually, I indicate the source to be Family Search. Similarly, when I used
          to capture data from the IGI using PAF Insight, that software would record
          where and when I captured the data from the IGI.

          I'm simply asking how this can automatically be accomplished using AQ, and
          if the function is not currently available in AQ, I would like to request
          that it be added.

          Please don't tell me I should not capture data from whatever source I choose
          to use. I can find value even in OneWorldTree, which I know to be of very
          poor quality. It at least gives me a starting point for my own research.
          nFS is better than that, since it also provides me the ONLY method for
          submitting names to the temple for the ordinance work to be done.

          Sigh.

          Jim

          _____

          From: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          thomas_nevin_huber
          Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 11:35 AM
          To: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [AQ_NFS] Re: Identifying nFS as data source

          --- In AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AQ_NFS%40yahoogroups.com> , "JimLight"
          <jimlight@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have been using AQ for a couple of years now, but I only recently
          started using the synchronization with nFS feature to find and update my db
          with LDS Ordinance data. Previously, I used the synch feature, but did all
          the updating of ordinance data manually.
          >
          > When I use AQ to update the ordinance data in my db, I would like AQ to
          also update the source information for the entries updated so that later I
          know that nFS was the source of the information. I'm sure that there is some
          option I can click to make that happen, but I don't see it.

          The source of ordinance data is not nFS, but the Temple Ordinance Records,
          whose dates and places are accessed through nFS (to be renamed Family Tree
          in the future). Likewise, nFS should be treated the same as any set of
          family trees, like One World Tree, etc., with a great deal of caution and
          plenty of backup source material to support the dates you put in your own
          ancestral file.

          I recently served as a missionary for the Family and Church History Mission
          and was an assistant group leader in the training zone. Many members
          mistakenly believe that the information contained in nFS is accurate and
          that the family connections made through the Temple Ordinance Sealings are
          the final word. They aren't.

          Currently, some 80 percent of all the problems existing in nFS search are
          caused by sealings of families that were never properly researched. Work is
          on-going to develop ways to correct those records and allow us to properly
          document and source all of the information in nFS and beyond. It may take
          several more years before it is possible to accomplish that.

          In the meantime, the best we can do is to make sure that our personal
          records, kept apart from nFS, are accurate and fully sourced. That includes
          family units.

          Sources come in three flavors: primary (usually government or other
          "official" records, including Church membership records (also available for
          deceased relatives through nFS); secondary -- records made after the fact,
          including census, delayed birth certificates, birth information on death
          records (the death record is the primary source only for the death date),
          obituaries, social security death index, draft and military records, and so
          on; other -- compilations, such as family, county, and community histories,
          and family trees, such as nFS, One World Tree, Ancestry.com family trees,
          and so on.

          All events need to be fully sourced with as many records as can be found. A
          single record is insufficient if other records are available.

          nFS, not only because it will be undergoing a name change in the future,
          should not be used as a source -- The repository is The Church of Jesus
          Christ of Latter-day Saints. You are only accessing the records (Church
          membership and Temple ordinance) through nFS, which acts as a portal, much
          like Ancestry.com acts as a portal to U.S. Federal Census records, whose
          repository is National Archives and Records Administration, 7th &
          Pennsylvania Ave., NW, Washington, DC 20408.

          Hopefully, this will help.

          Best regards,

          Tom Huber

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • thomas_nevin_huber
          Jim, I m not telling you not to take the information from nFS, but I am saying that it is not your source document for temple ordinance data. It is only the
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 11, 2011
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            Jim, I'm not telling you not to take the information from nFS, but I am saying that it is not your source document for temple ordinance data. It is only the "portal" to the documents (the Temple Ordinance Records) held by the Church. That's why I used the Ancestry.com example to point out that Ancestry is _not_ the source (or even repository) for census data.

            There are numerous ways to obtain temple ordinance data and nFS is only one of them, though it is the most commonly used source, since it is readily available to members of the church. Other sources include the TIB, the Family Group Sheet collection that was used for years to record the data (and still is for sealing living people to deceased members of their immediate family--usually parents), and finally, the old DOS version of the Ordinance Index (sometimes still needed for records that have yet to be transferred into nFS).

            > When I capture this ordinance data from nFS (whether I do it manually or via AQ), I want to document where I got the data. That way, if I subsequently discover errors in the records, I will know where they came from and what steps I need to do to correct the errors. When I record the ordinance data manually, I indicate the source to be Family Search. Similarly, when I used to capture data from the IGI using PAF Insight, that software would record where and when I captured the data from the IGI.

            When you link your family members in AQ to nFS, you essentially identify nFS as the source by default. The nFS PID is captured by AQ and can be copied to the printable AQ ID through a function in AQ ("Generate ID numbers") under Tools.

            Family Search is _not_ your source for Temple Ordinance Data. It is only the portal to the information (and a copy at that), just as ancestry.com is not the source for U.S. Federal Census records.

            Best Regards,

            Tom Huber
          • Sally
            Hello Tom, I have been following your discussion of sourcing in AQ. Your premise makes perfect sense to me but leaves me with a question. I m an old- timer
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 11, 2011
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              Hello Tom,

              I have been following your discussion of sourcing in AQ. Your premise
              makes perfect sense to me but leaves me with a question. I'm an old-
              timer when it comes to genealogical research and, in the case of the
              U.S. Federal Census records, I have used National Archives and Records
              Administration as the source where I actually found the record at a NARA
              site (Seattle, St. Louis, etc.) and I use Ancestry.com with "Additional
              info: digital image by subscription", when that is where I located the
              record. Would you change that as well?

              Thanks for your input on this subject, but the more I think about this,
              the more inclined I am to leave it as I have it. Those reading my records
              in years to come can still follow my footsteps and locate the record,
              which is my goal.

              Sally Bailey
            • thomas_nevin_huber
              ... That s a good place to put the reference. In the publisher info, I put on-line database , but don t credit which one I use, mostly because I tend to grab
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 11, 2011
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                --- In AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com, Sally <fbsb@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Tom,
                >
                > I have been following your discussion of sourcing in AQ. Your premise makes perfect sense to me but leaves me with a question. I'm an old-timer when it comes to genealogical research and, in the case of the U.S. Federal Census records, I have used National Archives and Records Administration as the source where I actually found the record at a NARA site (Seattle, St. Louis, etc.) and I use Ancestry.com with "Additional info: digital image by subscription", when that is where I located the record. Would you change that as well?

                That's a good place to put the reference. In the publisher info, I put "on-line database", but don't credit which one I use, mostly because I tend to grab information from at least three different sources: FamilySearch.org (in the new version of the website), Heritage Quest, and Ancestry.

                I use publisher info to indicate whether the source is an on-line database, a printed book (with the repository being the library where it is located), or an on-line digitized book (with a repository for one of the libraries where the actual book can be found).
                >
                > Thanks for your input on this subject, but the more I think about this, the more inclined I am to leave it as I have it. Those reading my records in years to come can still follow my footsteps and locate the record, which is my goal.

                Yes, I would not change it, either. You mentioned something that is very important to sourcing. The idea of a source citation is so that a future researcher can use the information you provide to find the original document you found, no matter where it might be located. Where there are multiple places it can be found (as is the case for census records), then you citation works very well.

                Best regards,

                Tom Huber
              • Gaylon Findlay
                I ve read not only Jim s original post on this topic, but also the responses to it. Let me respond to all of you that are interested in this issue from a big
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 27, 2011
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                  I've read not only Jim's original post on this topic, but also the
                  responses to it. Let me respond to all of you that are interested in
                  this issue from a big picture standpoint.

                  Automatically adding a source to information obtained from nFS has been
                  an ongoing request of many users, and in fact was in the initial design
                  of the AQ features dealing with nFS -- but it has not yet been realized.
                  Part of the reason that we haven't implemented this yet is that we don't
                  feel we have the best method for doing so, and we need more feedback.

                  I can see that if you have found a new piece of information in nFS, that
                  you might want it sourced as coming from nFS. However, you may have
                  merely found a better spelling of a place, and you are using the sync
                  capability for about the same purpose as a spell-checker. In this case,
                  you would mark the item from nFS to be brought into your AQ database to
                  improve your spelling. My guess is that you might not want this type of
                  update to be shown as having nFS as the source.

                  As a result, I don't believe it would be prudent to have a truly
                  automatic capability to attach a source to items you take from nFS --
                  you would want to attach such a source to some items, but not others.
                  Which means that we'd have to add a checkbox on some screens, or have AQ
                  ask questions via popups. This would cause additional time, energy and
                  keystrokes each time you perform any synching operation. One concern
                  that I have is adding complexity to the process of synching with nFS. As
                  Tom Huber mentioned, the data you would get from nFS would be a lower
                  level of quality in a source -- it's not an original source, rather it's
                  more of a personal note to yourself as to where you looked for the
                  information.

                  So let me ask some specific questions:

                  1) If you are on the Individual Sync screen, and click on the option box
                  to move a data item from nFS to your record, would you like a checkbox
                  on that screen to indicate that you want a source to be attached to the
                  data? Or is there a better method?

                  2) If you were to mark such a checkbox, would you always want the same
                  source? Or would you have a short list of sources that you could choose
                  from? Such as "LDS Temple Records" or "New.FamilySearch.org" or
                  something else -- you would create the actual source, with title,
                  author, etc the way you like, but you'd have a short list from which to
                  select.

                  3) If you are on the Family Sync screen, and import a new person to your
                  file, do you want a source automatically added to the record of each
                  person? Do you want a source added to each data item, such as Name,
                  Birth, Death, Burial, Baptism, etc?

                  4) If you use the Import Family Lines feature, do you want each imported
                  person, and each piece of data to have a source attached? Would it
                  always be the same source? Would you want AQ to ask you for each piece
                  of data to select a source from a short list?

                  So for any of you who are interested in attaching "nFS" as a source to
                  information obtained from nFS: think through the questions above, and
                  others that you might come up with as you sync your data with nFS. Put
                  some thought into just how you would like AQ to handle some of the
                  details. Let's have a bit of discussion, and see whether it makes sense
                  to add such a feature, or whether it would be too cumbersome to be of
                  value. (Remember that many users would not want to use this feature, so
                  any solution should be unobtrusive -- you'd probably have to activate
                  the feature in Preferences.)

                  Gaylon



                  On 9/9/2011 4:16 PM, JimLight wrote:
                  > I have been using AQ for a couple of years now, but I only recently started
                  > using the synchronization with nFS feature to find and update my db with LDS
                  > Ordinance data. Previously, I used the synch feature, but did all the
                  > updating of ordinance data manually.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > When I use AQ to update the ordinance data in my db, I would like AQ to also
                  > update the source information for the entries updated so that later I know
                  > that nFS was the source of the information. I'm sure that there is some
                  > option I can click to make that happen, but I don't see it.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Can someone tell me if this capability exists, and if so, how to invoke it?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Thanks.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Jim
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Allan Hale
                  NFS is an opinion file UNTIL it allows quality sourcing. For those with lds account access to nfs go to the help center and request What is the future of
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 27, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    NFS is an opinion file UNTIL it allows quality sourcing. For those with lds account access to nfs go to the help center and request " What is the future of new.familysearch.org" (KD 112666) to see what is being considered. PAF Insight made that mistake of tagging each entry with an IGI source and I am still routing them out of my file.

                    When the system allows quality sourcing then I would like to see it as a pass-through with the 'found on nfs' tag to qualify it.

                    So the answer to #1 is a qualified yes but not yet.
                    #2 See above. I want to know where the data really came from not what nfs says it is.(I still need to verify it though)
                    #3 See above
                    #4 See above.

                    Opinion files are great places to start and most of the time have great stuff BUT I would rather see a quality 2 or 3 source. NFS is quality 1 at best.

                    Allan Hale
                    WWS Missionary


                    >________________________________
                    >From: Gaylon Findlay <gfindlay@...>
                    >To: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com
                    >Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:22 PM
                    >Subject: Re: [AQ_NFS] Identifying nFS as data source
                    >
                    >

                    >I've read not only Jim's original post on this topic, but also the
                    >responses to it. Let me respond to all of you that are interested in
                    >this issue from a big picture standpoint.
                    >
                    >Automatically adding a source to information obtained from nFS has been
                    >an ongoing request of many users, and in fact was in the initial design
                    >of the AQ features dealing with nFS -- but it has not yet been realized.
                    >Part of the reason that we haven't implemented this yet is that we don't
                    >feel we have the best method for doing so, and we need more feedback.
                    >
                    >I can see that if you have found a new piece of information in nFS, that
                    >you might want it sourced as coming from nFS. However, you may have
                    >merely found a better spelling of a place, and you are using the sync
                    >capability for about the same purpose as a spell-checker. In this case,
                    >you would mark the item from nFS to be brought into your AQ database to
                    >improve your spelling. My guess is that you might not want this type of
                    >update to be shown as having nFS as the source.
                    >
                    >As a result, I don't believe it would be prudent to have a truly
                    >automatic capability to attach a source to items you take from nFS --
                    >you would want to attach such a source to some items, but not others.
                    >Which means that we'd have to add a checkbox on some screens, or have AQ
                    >ask questions via popups. This would cause additional time, energy and
                    >keystrokes each time you perform any synching operation. One concern
                    >that I have is adding complexity to the process of synching with nFS. As
                    >Tom Huber mentioned, the data you would get from nFS would be a lower
                    >level of quality in a source -- it's not an original source, rather it's
                    >more of a personal note to yourself as to where you looked for the
                    >information.
                    >
                    >So let me ask some specific questions:
                    >
                    >1) If you are on the Individual Sync screen, and click on the option box
                    >to move a data item from nFS to your record, would you like a checkbox
                    >on that screen to indicate that you want a source to be attached to the
                    >data? Or is there a better method?
                    >
                    >2) If you were to mark such a checkbox, would you always want the same
                    >source? Or would you have a short list of sources that you could choose
                    >from? Such as "LDS Temple Records" or "New.FamilySearch.org" or
                    >something else -- you would create the actual source, with title,
                    >author, etc the way you like, but you'd have a short list from which to
                    >select.
                    >
                    >3) If you are on the Family Sync screen, and import a new person to your
                    >file, do you want a source automatically added to the record of each
                    >person? Do you want a source added to each data item, such as Name,
                    >Birth, Death, Burial, Baptism, etc?
                    >
                    >4) If you use the Import Family Lines feature, do you want each imported
                    >person, and each piece of data to have a source attached? Would it
                    >always be the same source? Would you want AQ to ask you for each piece
                    >of data to select a source from a short list?
                    >
                    >So for any of you who are interested in attaching "nFS" as a source to
                    >information obtained from nFS: think through the questions above, and
                    >others that you might come up with as you sync your data with nFS. Put
                    >some thought into just how you would like AQ to handle some of the
                    >details. Let's have a bit of discussion, and see whether it makes sense
                    >to add such a feature, or whether it would be too cumbersome to be of
                    >value. (Remember that many users would not want to use this feature, so
                    >any solution should be unobtrusive -- you'd probably have to activate
                    >the feature in Preferences.)
                    >
                    >Gaylon
                    >
                    >On 9/9/2011 4:16 PM, JimLight wrote:
                    >> I have been using AQ for a couple of years now, but I only recently started
                    >> using the synchronization with nFS feature to find and update my db with LDS
                    >> Ordinance data. Previously, I used the synch feature, but did all the
                    >> updating of ordinance data manually.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> When I use AQ to update the ordinance data in my db, I would like AQ to also
                    >> update the source information for the entries updated so that later I know
                    >> that nFS was the source of the information. I'm sure that there is some
                    >> option I can click to make that happen, but I don't see it.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Can someone tell me if this capability exists, and if so, how to invoke it?
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Thanks.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Jim
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> ------------------------------------
                    >>
                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Margaret Thompson
                    Gaylon, Personally I do not want to use nFS as a source so I would want any enhancement to have a checkbox to activate it or not as it suits the individual.
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 3, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Gaylon,

                      Personally I do not want to use nFS as a source so I would want any
                      enhancement to have a checkbox to activate it or not as it suits the
                      individual.

                      Thank you for all you do.

                      Margaret

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Gaylon Findlay
                      Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:22 PM
                      To: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [AQ_NFS] Identifying nFS as data source

                      I've read not only Jim's original post on this topic, but also the
                      responses to it. Let me respond to all of you that are interested in
                      this issue from a big picture standpoint.

                      Automatically adding a source to information obtained from nFS has been
                      an ongoing request of many users, and in fact was in the initial design
                      of the AQ features dealing with nFS -- but it has not yet been realized.
                      Part of the reason that we haven't implemented this yet is that we don't
                      feel we have the best method for doing so, and we need more feedback.

                      I can see that if you have found a new piece of information in nFS, that
                      you might want it sourced as coming from nFS. However, you may have
                      merely found a better spelling of a place, and you are using the sync
                      capability for about the same purpose as a spell-checker. In this case,
                      you would mark the item from nFS to be brought into your AQ database to
                      improve your spelling. My guess is that you might not want this type of
                      update to be shown as having nFS as the source.

                      As a result, I don't believe it would be prudent to have a truly
                      automatic capability to attach a source to items you take from nFS --
                      you would want to attach such a source to some items, but not others.
                      Which means that we'd have to add a checkbox on some screens, or have AQ
                      ask questions via popups. This would cause additional time, energy and
                      keystrokes each time you perform any synching operation. One concern
                      that I have is adding complexity to the process of synching with nFS. As
                      Tom Huber mentioned, the data you would get from nFS would be a lower
                      level of quality in a source -- it's not an original source, rather it's
                      more of a personal note to yourself as to where you looked for the
                      information.

                      So let me ask some specific questions:

                      1) If you are on the Individual Sync screen, and click on the option box
                      to move a data item from nFS to your record, would you like a checkbox
                      on that screen to indicate that you want a source to be attached to the
                      data? Or is there a better method?

                      2) If you were to mark such a checkbox, would you always want the same
                      source? Or would you have a short list of sources that you could choose
                      from? Such as "LDS Temple Records" or "New.FamilySearch.org" or
                      something else -- you would create the actual source, with title,
                      author, etc the way you like, but you'd have a short list from which to
                      select.

                      3) If you are on the Family Sync screen, and import a new person to your
                      file, do you want a source automatically added to the record of each
                      person? Do you want a source added to each data item, such as Name,
                      Birth, Death, Burial, Baptism, etc?

                      4) If you use the Import Family Lines feature, do you want each imported
                      person, and each piece of data to have a source attached? Would it
                      always be the same source? Would you want AQ to ask you for each piece
                      of data to select a source from a short list?

                      So for any of you who are interested in attaching "nFS" as a source to
                      information obtained from nFS: think through the questions above, and
                      others that you might come up with as you sync your data with nFS. Put
                      some thought into just how you would like AQ to handle some of the
                      details. Let's have a bit of discussion, and see whether it makes sense
                      to add such a feature, or whether it would be too cumbersome to be of
                      value. (Remember that many users would not want to use this feature, so
                      any solution should be unobtrusive -- you'd probably have to activate
                      the feature in Preferences.)

                      Gaylon



                      On 9/9/2011 4:16 PM, JimLight wrote:
                      > I have been using AQ for a couple of years now, but I only recently
                      > started
                      > using the synchronization with nFS feature to find and update my db with
                      > LDS
                      > Ordinance data. Previously, I used the synch feature, but did all the
                      > updating of ordinance data manually.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > When I use AQ to update the ordinance data in my db, I would like AQ to
                      > also
                      > update the source information for the entries updated so that later I know
                      > that nFS was the source of the information. I'm sure that there is some
                      > option I can click to make that happen, but I don't see it.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Can someone tell me if this capability exists, and if so, how to invoke
                      > it?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Jim
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      ------------------------------------

                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • JimLight
                      Gaylon, Sorry to take so long to get back to you - it s been a busy week. First, let me thank you for taking my request seriously, particularly after some of
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 6, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Gaylon,



                        Sorry to take so long to get back to you - it's been a busy week.



                        First, let me thank you for taking my request seriously, particularly after
                        some of the responses to it. I appreciate your thoughtful consideration of
                        my request.



                        Second, I understand the position taken by some of the responders, that they
                        don't consider nFS a source. However, they have not convinced me to cease
                        using other genealogies as sources until I can find better sources to prove
                        or disprove the data collected, and my only hesitation is my original one,
                        namely, that when I obtain this data using AQ tools, there is no
                        accompanying documentation to help me later know where I acquired the data.
                        Notwithstanding the criticism of PAF Insight and the way it did such
                        documentation, I found it to be very helpful.



                        Third, I can see you have done a great deal of thinking about this function,
                        and you provide some difficult choices to think about in how I would like to
                        see the function work.



                        I do not agree with your paragraph that includes "In this case, you would
                        mark the item . " From my view, if you are capturing data from another data
                        base, it does not matter if it is merely a better spelling; the fact that I
                        found the data interesting enough to capture it makes it worthy of having
                        the source of this data identified. I do NOT want to attach a source to
                        some items, and not to others.



                        So here is my feedback (responses synched with your question numbers).



                        1) Prefer no checkbox - just capture the data and source where it came
                        from.

                        2) N/A for the most part due to my answer to the previous question. I
                        like the idea that I can format the source, but I prefer to keep it simple
                        and to use the same source for all such captures. PAF Insight had a nice
                        feature that permitted the IGI comparison function to be applied to other
                        databases. It made it easy to capture selected pieces of data from db's
                        provided by some of my cousins. It would be nice to have a unique source
                        for any db from which I was capturing data, if AQ ever had such a feature,
                        but if nFS will be the only such db, then only one such source is required.

                        3) I prefer to have the source added to each item captured.

                        4) I have not used the Family Lines feature, but I suspect I would
                        want to keep it simple and have a source attached to each piece of data
                        captured.



                        I'd be happy to have the source identification of data captured feature
                        selectable, i.e., selectable once, not every time I use AQ. Putting it in
                        Preferences would be satisfactory. By making it selectable, those who think
                        this is a bad idea do not need to use it. I just wish they wouldn't lecture
                        me on how I should do my genealogy.



                        Thanks again for your consideration, and for making such a great product for
                        us to use.



                        Jim







                        _____

                        From: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        Gaylon Findlay
                        Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 7:22 PM
                        To: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [AQ_NFS] Identifying nFS as data source





                        I've read not only Jim's original post on this topic, but also the
                        responses to it. Let me respond to all of you that are interested in
                        this issue from a big picture standpoint.

                        Automatically adding a source to information obtained from nFS has been
                        an ongoing request of many users, and in fact was in the initial design
                        of the AQ features dealing with nFS -- but it has not yet been realized.
                        Part of the reason that we haven't implemented this yet is that we don't
                        feel we have the best method for doing so, and we need more feedback.

                        I can see that if you have found a new piece of information in nFS, that
                        you might want it sourced as coming from nFS. However, you may have
                        merely found a better spelling of a place, and you are using the sync
                        capability for about the same purpose as a spell-checker. In this case,
                        you would mark the item from nFS to be brought into your AQ database to
                        improve your spelling. My guess is that you might not want this type of
                        update to be shown as having nFS as the source.

                        As a result, I don't believe it would be prudent to have a truly
                        automatic capability to attach a source to items you take from nFS --
                        you would want to attach such a source to some items, but not others.
                        Which means that we'd have to add a checkbox on some screens, or have AQ
                        ask questions via popups. This would cause additional time, energy and
                        keystrokes each time you perform any synching operation. One concern
                        that I have is adding complexity to the process of synching with nFS. As
                        Tom Huber mentioned, the data you would get from nFS would be a lower
                        level of quality in a source -- it's not an original source, rather it's
                        more of a personal note to yourself as to where you looked for the
                        information.

                        So let me ask some specific questions:

                        1) If you are on the Individual Sync screen, and click on the option box
                        to move a data item from nFS to your record, would you like a checkbox
                        on that screen to indicate that you want a source to be attached to the
                        data? Or is there a better method?

                        2) If you were to mark such a checkbox, would you always want the same
                        source? Or would you have a short list of sources that you could choose
                        from? Such as "LDS Temple Records" or "New.FamilySearch.org" or
                        something else -- you would create the actual source, with title,
                        author, etc the way you like, but you'd have a short list from which to
                        select.

                        3) If you are on the Family Sync screen, and import a new person to your
                        file, do you want a source automatically added to the record of each
                        person? Do you want a source added to each data item, such as Name,
                        Birth, Death, Burial, Baptism, etc?

                        4) If you use the Import Family Lines feature, do you want each imported
                        person, and each piece of data to have a source attached? Would it
                        always be the same source? Would you want AQ to ask you for each piece
                        of data to select a source from a short list?

                        So for any of you who are interested in attaching "nFS" as a source to
                        information obtained from nFS: think through the questions above, and
                        others that you might come up with as you sync your data with nFS. Put
                        some thought into just how you would like AQ to handle some of the
                        details. Let's have a bit of discussion, and see whether it makes sense
                        to add such a feature, or whether it would be too cumbersome to be of
                        value. (Remember that many users would not want to use this feature, so
                        any solution should be unobtrusive -- you'd probably have to activate
                        the feature in Preferences.)

                        Gaylon

                        On 9/9/2011 4:16 PM, JimLight wrote:
                        > I have been using AQ for a couple of years now, but I only recently
                        started
                        > using the synchronization with nFS feature to find and update my db with
                        LDS
                        > Ordinance data. Previously, I used the synch feature, but did all the
                        > updating of ordinance data manually.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > When I use AQ to update the ordinance data in my db, I would like AQ to
                        also
                        > update the source information for the entries updated so that later I know
                        > that nFS was the source of the information. I'm sure that there is some
                        > option I can click to make that happen, but I don't see it.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Can someone tell me if this capability exists, and if so, how to invoke
                        it?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Thanks.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Jim
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >





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