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Re: [AQ_NFS] NFS Nightmare

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  • Bill Buchanan
    Leslie, One new thing that is worth trying is to register a :Watch on certain individuals at risk of being wrongly combined. That way if they get combined,
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 11 11:59 AM
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      Leslie,

      One new thing that is worth trying is to register a :Watch" on certain
      individuals at risk of being wrongly combined. That way if they get
      combined, you are at least informed who did it.
      Unfortunately some users seem to think that all "possible duplicates" need
      to be combined. They need to be educated. If you sent them a copy of the
      correct info and asked them if they would mind restoring the data in nFS to
      the correct form, they probably would not make that error again any time
      soon.

      Bill Buchanan

      On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Leslie Vaughn <Leslievaughn@...>wrote:

      >
      >
      > It doesn't bring any chuckles to me probably because I acutely feel your
      > pain.
      >
      > I can understand why someone would combine--the names were the same as were
      > names of spouses and other relatives, although I cannot justify why they did
      > it. Just looking at dates and places should have given them a clue.
      >
      > What I don't understand is how people can get combined with just a barely
      > passing resemblance to another person.
      >
      > When I have checked for duplicates, I am sometimes presented choices that
      > have no bearing on the person, other than a similar last name or birthdate.
      > I have been presented as possible duplicates of my US born and bred
      > relatives someone in Australia or England or New Zealand and sometimes born
      > decades apart. I suppose if I weren't paying attention to the details, I
      > would have gone willy-nilly and combined them.
      >
      > I have been working on nfs since in rolled out in Florida several years ago
      > and I still am not brave enough to tackle my early LDS ancestry or the
      > colonial ancestry I have whose other descendants might be LDS and thus had
      > the work done upwards of 80 times or have been put in AF or PRF 100s of
      > times and then were brought into nfs to be combined, confused and messed up.
      >
      > I have recently found someone whose name was the same as his father. He
      > married a distant cousin whose name was the same as his mother. I have just
      > put them into nfs with appropriate dates but I am just holding my breath
      > that the mother and her daughter-in-law will be combined and the father and
      > son will be combined.
      >
      > I don't know what the answer is but I would like to see one before this
      > system rolls out to non-LDS in full and our system becomes a laughing stock
      > of the genealogical community and no one trusts it.
      >
      > Leslie
      >
      > From: bob.penry
      > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 1:28 PM
      >
      > To: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [AQ_NFS] NFS Nightmare
      >
      > Just thought I would share my NFS nightmare with the group - perhaps it
      > will either give you a chuckle (although sympathy would be nice). Here it
      > is...
      > Two brothers Abraham and John married twin sisters Anna and Hannah.
      > Abraham and Hannah had twin daughters Elizabeth and Letitia. John and Annah
      > had two daughters that they named Elizabeth and Letitia. All four cousins
      > were born in a three-year period in late 1700's. John and Abraham's
      > grandmother was also named Elizabeth. John and Abraham and all four children
      > had multiple marriages. Now for the good part. All of them were entered so
      > many times in the past that the ability to combine was full. Some kind souls
      > had done combos that should never have happened. All four girls were joined
      > as spouses to the same men. Thus each girl shows at least the same 8
      > husbands. John and Abraham were joined to each others wives, so each of them
      > has at least 4 wives. Then to top it off, all four girls were combined with
      > their grandmother, and joined as children of all 8 marriage combos. So each
      > girl shows up with over 9 sets of parents - one of which is to their
      > great-grandparents, and because the combo limit is full, I can't combine
      > duplicate parents. My AQ is correct, but to un-combine the mess (if
      > possible) would probably take me months! The temple work has been done so
      > many times, that I am just going to leave it alone.
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
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      > Switch to: Text-Only<AQ_NFS-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>,
      > Daily Digest<AQ_NFS-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest>�
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Mary-Theresa Dameron
      I spend hours going over the Encyclopedia of American Quaker Genealogy to document all my individuals in AQ and then find I spend twice as long unlinking in
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 11 12:03 PM
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        I spend hours going over the Encyclopedia of American Quaker Genealogy to
        document all my individuals in AQ and then find I spend twice as long
        unlinking in NFS. It still frosts me that so many people disputed
        information instead of taking care of the problem - each time I see that
        symbol I see stars!

        Most of my issues come from duplicate children - but there are different
        generations linked - so now I know why I am doing names that are distant
        cousins. Someone has to do it.





        From: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        bob.penry
        Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 11:29 AM
        To: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [AQ_NFS] NFS Nightmare





        Just thought I would share my NFS nightmare with the group - perhaps it will
        either give you a chuckle (although sympathy would be nice). Here it is...
        Two brothers Abraham and John married twin sisters Anna and Hannah.
        Abraham and Hannah had twin daughters Elizabeth and Letitia. John and Annah
        had two daughters that they named Elizabeth and Letitia. All four cousins
        were born in a three-year period in late 1700's. John and Abraham's
        grandmother was also named Elizabeth. John and Abraham and all four children
        had multiple marriages. Now for the good part. All of them were entered so
        many times in the past that the ability to combine was full. Some kind souls
        had done combos that should never have happened. All four girls were joined
        as spouses to the same men. Thus each girl shows at least the same 8
        husbands. John and Abraham were joined to each others wives, so each of them
        has at least 4 wives. Then to top it off, all four girls were combined with
        their grandmother, and joined as children of all 8 marriage combos. So each
        girl shows up with over 9 sets of parents - one of which is to their
        great-grandparents, and because the combo limit is full, I can't combine
        duplicate parents. My AQ is correct, but to un-combine the mess (if
        possible) would probably take me months! The temple work has been done so
        many times, that I am just going to leave it alone.





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John Vilburn
        While it is impossible to prevent others from combining those people incorrectly, there is a tool that makes separating them easier. It is called
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 11 12:38 PM
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          While it is impossible to prevent others from combining those people incorrectly, there is a tool that makes separating them easier. It is called AncestorSplit.

          Rather than separating the person based on the individual NFS Ids, it lets you separate based on the data. Taking your Elizabeth and Letitia example, if the twins were born in 1850 and the other Elizabeth and Letitia were born in 1851 and 1852 respectively, you could click on the 1852 birth date and separate out all of the records for the non-twin Letitia. Then you could click on the 1851 birth date to separate out all of the records for the non-twin Elizabeth. Then you could click on the grandmother's birth date to separate out her records. Then you could click on the name Letitia to separate the twins. And you get to see the results as you go, so you can play around with different combinations until you have everything right. Finally, when everything is the way you want, you click OK to submit the changes to NFS.

          AncestorSplit is available on the Tools menu of FamilyInsight, which you can buy at ancquest.com
          It is also available as part of a subscription to SharingTime, which you can buy at sharingtime.com

          Aloha,
          John


          On Apr 11, 2011, at 7:28 AM, bob.penry wrote:

          > Just thought I would share my NFS nightmare with the group - perhaps it will either give you a chuckle (although sympathy would be nice). Here it is...
          > Two brothers Abraham and John married twin sisters Anna and Hannah.
          > Abraham and Hannah had twin daughters Elizabeth and Letitia. John and Annah had two daughters that they named Elizabeth and Letitia. All four cousins were born in a three-year period in late 1700's. John and Abraham's grandmother was also named Elizabeth. John and Abraham and all four children had multiple marriages. Now for the good part. All of them were entered so many times in the past that the ability to combine was full. Some kind souls had done combos that should never have happened. All four girls were joined as spouses to the same men. Thus each girl shows at least the same 8 husbands. John and Abraham were joined to each others wives, so each of them has at least 4 wives. Then to top it off, all four girls were combined with their grandmother, and joined as children of all 8 marriage combos. So each girl shows up with over 9 sets of parents - one of which is to their great-grandparents, and because the combo limit is full, I can't combine duplicate parents. My AQ is correct, but to un-combine the mess (if possible) would probably take me months! The temple work has been done so many times, that I am just going to leave it alone.
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Leslie Vaughn
          I ve thought of doing that, but I have 1000s of ancestors who were either early LDS or there are ancestors that I have in common with LDS people so that the
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 11 2:16 PM
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            I've thought of doing that, but I have 1000s of ancestors who were either
            early LDS or there are ancestors that I have in common with LDS people so
            that the work has been done so much. I'm afraid that if I did put a watch
            on each of these, I'd probably do nothing but deal with these issues and
            wouldn't have time to do new research.

            Maybe I will try it.

            Anyone else have any experience with the "watch" feature on nfs.

            Leslie
            ps. It would help if we could see who has combined and uncombined records
            as we look at the records. In this way we wouldn't have to worry about the
            watch feature and being inundated with notifications. If we could tell ,on
            our schedule, who is doing this we might be able to open a dialog which is
            part of nfs mission.

            --------------------------------------------------
            From: "Bill Buchanan" <genealogistbuchanan@...>
            Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 2:59 PM
            To: <AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: [AQ_NFS] NFS Nightmare

            > Leslie,
            >
            > One new thing that is worth trying is to register a :Watch" on certain
            > individuals at risk of being wrongly combined. That way if they get
            > combined, you are at least informed who did it.
            > Unfortunately some users seem to think that all "possible duplicates" need
            > to be combined. They need to be educated. If you sent them a copy of the
            > correct info and asked them if they would mind restoring the data in nFS
            > to
            > the correct form, they probably would not make that error again any time
            > soon.
            >
            > Bill Buchanan
            >
            > On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Leslie Vaughn
            > <Leslievaughn@...>wrote:
            >
            >>
            >>
            >> It doesn't bring any chuckles to me probably because I acutely feel your
            >> pain.
            >>
            >> I can understand why someone would combine--the names were the same as
            >> were
            >> names of spouses and other relatives, although I cannot justify why they
            >> did
            >> it. Just looking at dates and places should have given them a clue.
            >>
            >> What I don't understand is how people can get combined with just a barely
            >> passing resemblance to another person.
            >>
            >> When I have checked for duplicates, I am sometimes presented choices that
            >> have no bearing on the person, other than a similar last name or
            >> birthdate.
            >> I have been presented as possible duplicates of my US born and bred
            >> relatives someone in Australia or England or New Zealand and sometimes
            >> born
            >> decades apart. I suppose if I weren't paying attention to the details, I
            >> would have gone willy-nilly and combined them.
            >>
            >> I have been working on nfs since in rolled out in Florida several years
            >> ago
            >> and I still am not brave enough to tackle my early LDS ancestry or the
            >> colonial ancestry I have whose other descendants might be LDS and thus
            >> had
            >> the work done upwards of 80 times or have been put in AF or PRF 100s of
            >> times and then were brought into nfs to be combined, confused and messed
            >> up.
            >>
            >> I have recently found someone whose name was the same as his father. He
            >> married a distant cousin whose name was the same as his mother. I have
            >> just
            >> put them into nfs with appropriate dates but I am just holding my breath
            >> that the mother and her daughter-in-law will be combined and the father
            >> and
            >> son will be combined.
            >>
            >> I don't know what the answer is but I would like to see one before this
            >> system rolls out to non-LDS in full and our system becomes a laughing
            >> stock
            >> of the genealogical community and no one trusts it.
            >>
            >> Leslie
            >>
            >> From: bob.penry
            >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 1:28 PM
            >>
            >> To: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com
            >> Subject: [AQ_NFS] NFS Nightmare
            >>
            >> Just thought I would share my NFS nightmare with the group - perhaps it
            >> will either give you a chuckle (although sympathy would be nice). Here it
            >> is...
            >> Two brothers Abraham and John married twin sisters Anna and Hannah.
            >> Abraham and Hannah had twin daughters Elizabeth and Letitia. John and
            >> Annah
            >> had two daughters that they named Elizabeth and Letitia. All four cousins
            >> were born in a three-year period in late 1700's. John and Abraham's
            >> grandmother was also named Elizabeth. John and Abraham and all four
            >> children
            >> had multiple marriages. Now for the good part. All of them were entered
            >> so
            >> many times in the past that the ability to combine was full. Some kind
            >> souls
            >> had done combos that should never have happened. All four girls were
            >> joined
            >> as spouses to the same men. Thus each girl shows at least the same 8
            >> husbands. John and Abraham were joined to each others wives, so each of
            >> them
            >> has at least 4 wives. Then to top it off, all four girls were combined
            >> with
            >> their grandmother, and joined as children of all 8 marriage combos. So
            >> each
            >> girl shows up with over 9 sets of parents - one of which is to their
            >> great-grandparents, and because the combo limit is full, I can't combine
            >> duplicate parents. My AQ is correct, but to un-combine the mess (if
            >> possible) would probably take me months! The temple work has been done so
            >> many times, that I am just going to leave it alone.
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >> [image: Yahoo!
            >> Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcGlkM2JpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1MjI5Njk2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwOTMzNDk5MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTMwMjU0NTY2MA-->
            >> Switch to:
            >> Text-Only<AQ_NFS-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>,
            >> Daily
            >> Digest<AQ_NFS-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest>•
            >> Unsubscribe <AQ_NFS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> •
            >> Terms
            >> of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
            >> .
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
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            > Yahoo! Groups Links
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          • JimLight
            Sometimes the errors have been made prior to nFS existence, usually in Ancestral File or PRF. I have used the Watch feature both successfully and not so
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 11 2:27 PM
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              Sometimes the errors have been made prior to nFS existence, usually in
              Ancestral File or PRF.

              I have used the Watch feature both successfully and not so successfully.
              When I find an ancestor on nFS where the temple work is reserved, or in
              progress, I try to remember to click on Watch so that I can be notified when
              the work is complete. However, some of those cases don't get resolved
              quickly, and I have not done a good job of setting a timer on them in some
              way that I can go back and check them when an unreasonably lengthy time has
              passed. I suspect when they have been sitting around for a long time, the
              person reserving them is no longer with us, and they are hung in limbo until
              someone (me?) jars it loose.

              I have also used Watch in just the way that was suggested, i.e., to monitor
              an ancestor who seems to be the target for unwanted combinations. So far,
              the only notifications I have received in this case have been benign, i.e.,
              I agreed with the work that was being done, so I've just had the
              satisfaction of knowing that it happened.

              I think the Watch is a good feature, and I have not been inundated with
              excessive notifications.

              Jim



              -----Original Message-----
              From: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Leslie Vaughn
              Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 2:17 PM
              To: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [AQ_NFS] NFS Nightmare

              I've thought of doing that, but I have 1000s of ancestors who were either
              early LDS or there are ancestors that I have in common with LDS people so
              that the work has been done so much. I'm afraid that if I did put a watch
              on each of these, I'd probably do nothing but deal with these issues and
              wouldn't have time to do new research.

              Maybe I will try it.

              Anyone else have any experience with the "watch" feature on nfs.

              Leslie
              ps. It would help if we could see who has combined and uncombined records
              as we look at the records. In this way we wouldn't have to worry about the
              watch feature and being inundated with notifications. If we could tell ,on
              our schedule, who is doing this we might be able to open a dialog which is
              part of nfs mission.

              --------------------------------------------------
              From: "Bill Buchanan" <genealogistbuchanan@...>
              Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 2:59 PM
              To: <AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: [AQ_NFS] NFS Nightmare

              > Leslie,
              >
              > One new thing that is worth trying is to register a :Watch" on certain
              > individuals at risk of being wrongly combined. That way if they get
              > combined, you are at least informed who did it.
              > Unfortunately some users seem to think that all "possible duplicates" need
              > to be combined. They need to be educated. If you sent them a copy of the
              > correct info and asked them if they would mind restoring the data in nFS
              > to
              > the correct form, they probably would not make that error again any time
              > soon.
              >
              > Bill Buchanan
              >
              > On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Leslie Vaughn
              > <Leslievaughn@...>wrote:
              >
              >>
              >>
              >> It doesn't bring any chuckles to me probably because I acutely feel your
              >> pain.
              >>
              >> I can understand why someone would combine--the names were the same as
              >> were
              >> names of spouses and other relatives, although I cannot justify why they
              >> did
              >> it. Just looking at dates and places should have given them a clue.
              >>
              >> What I don't understand is how people can get combined with just a barely
              >> passing resemblance to another person.
              >>
              >> When I have checked for duplicates, I am sometimes presented choices that
              >> have no bearing on the person, other than a similar last name or
              >> birthdate.
              >> I have been presented as possible duplicates of my US born and bred
              >> relatives someone in Australia or England or New Zealand and sometimes
              >> born
              >> decades apart. I suppose if I weren't paying attention to the details, I
              >> would have gone willy-nilly and combined them.
              >>
              >> I have been working on nfs since in rolled out in Florida several years
              >> ago
              >> and I still am not brave enough to tackle my early LDS ancestry or the
              >> colonial ancestry I have whose other descendants might be LDS and thus
              >> had
              >> the work done upwards of 80 times or have been put in AF or PRF 100s of
              >> times and then were brought into nfs to be combined, confused and messed
              >> up.
              >>
              >> I have recently found someone whose name was the same as his father. He
              >> married a distant cousin whose name was the same as his mother. I have
              >> just
              >> put them into nfs with appropriate dates but I am just holding my breath
              >> that the mother and her daughter-in-law will be combined and the father
              >> and
              >> son will be combined.
              >>
              >> I don't know what the answer is but I would like to see one before this
              >> system rolls out to non-LDS in full and our system becomes a laughing
              >> stock
              >> of the genealogical community and no one trusts it.
              >>
              >> Leslie
              >>
              >> From: bob.penry
              >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 1:28 PM
              >>
              >> To: AQ_NFS@yahoogroups.com
              >> Subject: [AQ_NFS] NFS Nightmare
              >>
              >> Just thought I would share my NFS nightmare with the group - perhaps it
              >> will either give you a chuckle (although sympathy would be nice). Here it
              >> is...
              >> Two brothers Abraham and John married twin sisters Anna and Hannah.
              >> Abraham and Hannah had twin daughters Elizabeth and Letitia. John and
              >> Annah
              >> had two daughters that they named Elizabeth and Letitia. All four cousins
              >> were born in a three-year period in late 1700's. John and Abraham's
              >> grandmother was also named Elizabeth. John and Abraham and all four
              >> children
              >> had multiple marriages. Now for the good part. All of them were entered
              >> so
              >> many times in the past that the ability to combine was full. Some kind
              >> souls
              >> had done combos that should never have happened. All four girls were
              >> joined
              >> as spouses to the same men. Thus each girl shows at least the same 8
              >> husbands. John and Abraham were joined to each others wives, so each of
              >> them
              >> has at least 4 wives. Then to top it off, all four girls were combined
              >> with
              >> their grandmother, and joined as children of all 8 marriage combos. So
              >> each
              >> girl shows up with over 9 sets of parents - one of which is to their
              >> great-grandparents, and because the combo limit is full, I can't combine
              >> duplicate parents. My AQ is correct, but to un-combine the mess (if
              >> possible) would probably take me months! The temple work has been done so
              >> many times, that I am just going to leave it alone.
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >> [image: Yahoo!
              >>
              Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcGlkM2JpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycE
              lkAzI1MjI5Njk2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwOTMzNDk5MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTMwMj
              U0NTY2MA-->
              >> Switch to:
              >>
              Text-Only<AQ_NFS-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change+Delivery+Format:
              +Traditional>,
              >> Daily
              >> Digest<AQ_NFS-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest>.
              >> Unsubscribe <AQ_NFS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> .
              >> Terms
              >> of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
              >> .
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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