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Re: [APBR_analysis] Offensive Rebounding

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  • Michael K. Tamada
    ... It might be a measure of quickness, as well as hustle. Those big guys lumbering in the trenches grabbing the defensive rebounds are presumably working
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 8, 2002
      On Sat, 9 Feb 2002, thedawgsareout wrote:

      > I've heard the theory espoused in a couple of locations that
      > offensive rebounds are a 'glamorous' thing because they lead to put-
      > backs, whereas defensive rebounds are less rewarded.
      > The theory concludes that players who have high offensive/defensive
      > rebound ratios (based on their situation; clearly interior players
      > have higher offensive ratios) can be considered as more selfish.
      > Those who have lower offensive rebound ratios are sefless and willing
      > to do the dirty work.
      > Here's an example of this theory:
      > > Offensive rebounding is glamorous. Offensive rebounding is about
      > > spectacular putbacks, sick dunks, roaring crowds.
      > > But defensive rebounding is just plain hard work. Hard work that
      > > often goes pretty much unnoticed. But it's got to be done. Forget
      > > the numbers and just watch the action under our own glass � that is
      > > where we are losing games that could be won.
      > Looking at the list I previously compiled of best offensive/total
      > rebound ratio, the theory doesn't really seem to hold:
      > > Here are the top ten in offensive/total rebound ratio
      > > for this season, minimum 400 minutes:
      > >
      > > 1. Earl Boykins, PG, LAC
      > > 2. Vitaly Potapenko, C, BOS
      > > 3. Ruben Patterson, SF, POR
      > > 4. Ryan Bowen, SF, DEN
      > > 5. Charles "Bo" Outlaw, PF, ORL/PHO
      > > 6. Shane Battier, SF, MEM
      > > 7. Vin Baker, PF, SEA
      > > 8. Jarron Collins, C, UTA
      > > 9. Brendan Haywood, C, WAS
      > > 10. Darvin Ham, PF, MIL
      > Of those players, the only one who I would really think could be
      > described as a quote unquote 'selfish' or 'glamour' player is Baker.
      > The others seem to fit my theory, which is that offensive rebounds
      > are to a larger extent than defensive rebounds based on hustle and
      > positioning.
      > Patterson, Bowen, Outlaw, Collins, and Ham could all be considered
      > hustle players in my opinion. Their presence in the top ten in
      > offensive rebound ratio tends, in my opinion, to give credence to my
      > theory.
      > Any thoughts on how offensive rebound ratio could be characterized as
      > saying something significant about players?

      It might be a measure of quickness, as well as hustle. Those big guys
      lumbering in the trenches grabbing the defensive rebounds are presumably
      working hard and "hustling" too.

      For big guys though I think strength may be more important than quickness,
      in terms of ranking high in the proportion of off:total rebounds (Moses
      Malone, Chris Dudley, Paul Silas in his later slow years).

      Dave Cowens has the hustle and quickness to fit the stereotype of an
      offensive rebounder, but he was actually relatively low in this stat.
      Partly perhaps because he was a big guy, mainly probably because he was a
      high post center. Ditto Walton, Sikma, and even Jabbar (who would operate
      closer to the basket than those other guys, but was no one's idea of a low
      post grind-it-out Moses Malone type).

      However I think of Unseld as a high post center, but he was not unusually
      low in the off:tot category.

      I suspect that the biggest factor may be what you said in your original
      post: lack of outside shooting ability, and conversely good inside
      scoring ability. Probably buttressed by factors such as quickness,
      hustle, maybe strength for the big guys, maybe size as an independent

      Being an inside-oriented, front court go-to guy means a high off:total
      ratio (Moses, Barkley, Dantley). Being Steve Kerr means a low ratio.
      Being a lousy shooter both inside and outside (Unseld) means a balanced

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