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NBA assists in 1960

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  • baqontraq1211
    1960 is really just a random date -- but its clear that assists were being watched and yet they do not seem to appear in box scores. But I see several cases
    Message 1 of 8 , May 20, 2008
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      1960 is really just a random date -- but its clear that assists were
      being watched and yet they do not seem to appear in box scores.

      But I see several cases where people must be drawing assist data from
      somewhere. So where are they drawing this data from?
    • Clay Dreslough
      Dumb question. When a player is fouled going to the basket and he misses the shot, is he credited with a Missed Field Goal?
      Message 2 of 8 , May 21, 2008
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        Dumb question. When a player is fouled going to the basket and he misses the
        shot, is he credited with a Missed Field Goal?
      • William Tosheff
        I ld say if the initial attempt is made...then, the shot is implicated. The foul comes after the attempt. ... From: Clay Dreslough To:
        Message 3 of 8 , May 21, 2008
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          I'ld say if the initial attempt is made...then, the shot is implicated. The foul comes after the attempt.

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Clay Dreslough <cjd@...>
          To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 12:29:47 AM
          Subject: [APBR_analysis] Scorekeeping Question

          Dumb question. When a player is fouled going to the basket and he misses the
          shot, is he credited with a Missed Field Goal?


        • tosheff
          ... In the 50 s when I participated, assists were at the behest of the home time stats guy....and, there were few good stats guys to cover the whole spectrum.
          Message 4 of 8 , May 21, 2008
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            --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "baqontraq1211" <baqontraq1211@...> wrote:
            >
            > 1960 is really just a random date -- but its clear that assists were
            > being watched and yet they do not seem to appear in box scores.
            >
            > But I see several cases where people must be drawing assist data from
            > somewhere. So where are they drawing this data from?
            >
            In the '50's when I participated, assists were at the behest of the home time stats
            guy....and, there were few good stats guys to cover the whole spectrum. Today, a small
            computer handles all of the stats while early years a #2 yellow pencil did the stroke.
          • Marc G
            In both college and pro statistical rules, the shot attempt would only count if the shot is made. Otherwise, it would be unfair to player being fouled and
            Message 5 of 8 , May 21, 2008
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              In both college and pro statistical rules, the shot attempt would only count if the shot is made.  Otherwise, it would be unfair to player being fouled and statistically innacurate as all missed shots must have a corresponding rebound.
               
              I heard an interesting comment from a college stat crew once who told me that their coach insisted that if his player blocked a shot during a foul in the act of shooting, he should be credited with the block.  Logic was that if the shot went in, it would be counted.  His player was preventing that even if it was nullified by the foul.  Interesting logic. 



              To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
              From: tosheff@...
              Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 04:51:30 -0700
              Subject: Re: [APBR_analysis] Scorekeeping Question

              I'ld say if the initial attempt is made...then, the shot is implicated. The foul comes after the attempt.

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Clay Dreslough <cjd@sportsmogul. com>
              To: APBR_analysis@ yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 12:29:47 AM
              Subject: [APBR_analysis] Scorekeeping Question

              Dumb question. When a player is fouled going to the basket and he misses the
              shot, is he credited with a Missed Field Goal?





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            • baqontraq1211
              ... were ... from ... home time stats ... spectrum. Today, a small ... pencil did the stroke. ... Thank you. When stats are given for the year, notably
              Message 6 of 8 , May 21, 2008
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                --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "tosheff" <tosheff@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "baqontraq1211"
                <baqontraq1211@> wrote:
                > >
                > > 1960 is really just a random date -- but its clear that assists
                were
                > > being watched and yet they do not seem to appear in box scores.
                > >
                > > But I see several cases where people must be drawing assist data
                from
                > > somewhere. So where are they drawing this data from?
                > >
                > In the '50's when I participated, assists were at the behest of the
                home time stats
                > guy....and, there were few good stats guys to cover the whole
                spectrum. Today, a small
                > computer handles all of the stats while early years a #2 yellow
                pencil did the stroke.
                >

                Thank you.

                When stats are given for the year, notably basketballreference.com,
                etc., I'm assuming thier ability to come up with assists stats must
                mean somewhere, somehow totals were kept for each player.

                Thank you for the insight into that era.

                It seems the assists data must have been drawn from some database -
                as yarly totals and averages would not have been possible unless such
                stats had been kept for each game.

                I'm sure we all regret the difficulty in finding complete historical
                box scores throughout the NBA's history.
              • Clay Dreslough
                ... Thanks. That s what I thought. ... What about rebounds that go over the backboard (or the rare rebound that goes OOB without being touched)? Do those get a
                Message 7 of 8 , May 21, 2008
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                  Marc G wrote:
                  > In both college and pro statistical rules, the shot attempt would only
                  > count if the shot is made.

                  Thanks. That's what I thought.

                  > Otherwise, it would be unfair to player being fouled and statistically innacurate as all missed shots must have
                  > a corresponding rebound.

                  What about rebounds that go over the backboard (or the rare rebound that goes
                  OOB without being touched)? Do those get a rebound credited to someone in the stats?

                  Clay
                  --
                  Clay Dreslough
                  President, Sports Mogul Inc.
                  cjd@...
                  www.sportsmogul.com
                • Marc G
                  According to Pro (NBA, WNBA)- balls that go over the backboard or out of bounds without being controlled by a player are credited as team rebounds. This would
                  Message 8 of 8 , May 22, 2008
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                    According to Pro (NBA, WNBA)- balls that go over the backboard or out of bounds without being controlled by a player are credited as team rebounds.  This would also apply to a rebound that occurs after a loose ball foul is called, a missed 1st free throw in a 2 free throw scenario, a shot taken to beat the clock at the end of a quarter that does not go in and the buzzer sounds while ball is in the air and even on a shot that is an airball on a 24 second violation (shot counts so a rebound has to be credited).
                     
                    According to NCAA rules, balls that go over backboards are deadball team rebounds.  Balls that go out of bounds without anyone controlling them are team rebounds.  They deadball and non-deadball team rebounds are shown on the stat sheets in different places and the description pretty much tells you when each is credited.  If the clock has stopped- such as when the ball passes over the backboard or such as on a missed 1st free throw in a 2 free throw situation) it is a dead-ball team rebound.  Otherwise, it is a regular team rebound. 

                    > To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: cjd@...
                    > Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 12:52:18 -0400
                    > Subject: Re: [APBR_analysis] Scorekeeping Question
                    >
                    > Marc G wrote:
                    > > In both college and pro statistical rules, the shot attempt would only
                    > > count if the shot is made.
                    >
                    > Thanks. That's what I thought.
                    >
                    > > Otherwise, it would be unfair to player being fouled and statistically innacurate as all missed shots must have
                    > > a corresponding rebound.
                    >
                    > What about rebounds that go over the backboard (or the rare rebound that goes
                    > OOB without being touched)? Do those get a rebound credited to someone in the stats?
                    >
                    > Clay
                    > --
                    > Clay Dreslough
                    > President, Sports Mogul Inc.
                    > cjd@...
                    > www.sportsmogul.com
                    >
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