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Box score order question

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  • baqontraq1211
    I have looked over older box scores and was wondering if there was any rhyme or reason to the way players are listed. Specifically I am looking at the late
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 14, 2007
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      I have looked over older box scores and was wondering if there was any
      rhyme or reason to the way players are listed.

      Specifically I am looking at the late 1950s and early 1960s at the
      moment.

      Are the players listed in the order in which they appeared in the
      game? e.g Starting 5 followed by substitutions in the order in which
      they entered the game? Or is it completely random?

      Any insight would be be appreciated.
    • Marc
      I can tell you that requirements and results are different for college and NBA. In the NBA, teams can only play (2)forwards, (2)guards and a center and they
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 14, 2007
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        I can tell you that requirements and results are different for college
        and NBA. In the NBA, teams can only play (2)forwards, (2)guards and a
        center and they are supposed to be listed in the opening boxscore,
        according to the NBA statisticians manual in the following order:
        Small Forward, Power Forward, Center, Point Guard, Shooting Guard

        The subs are then entered in order of appearance on the floor with any
        players who do not appear at the bottom of the box in alphabetical
        order with their reason for not appearing. The inactives for the game
        appear in a separate line and not in the boxscore itself.

        For college, there are no requirements for how many of which position
        is in the line-up. There can be 5 guards or 5 forwards or any
        mixture. The software used by most college teams will have the line-
        ups appear in the following way: forward(s) followed by center(s)
        followed by guard(s). In each category, the starters will be in order
        numerically.

        The subs will appear in numerical order no matter how they entered the
        game below the starters and players who do not get into the game will
        not appear anywhere on the boxscore.

        Hope this helps.
        --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "baqontraq1211"
        <baqontraq1211@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have looked over older box scores and was wondering if there was
        any
        > rhyme or reason to the way players are listed.
        >
        > Specifically I am looking at the late 1950s and early 1960s at the
        > moment.
        >
        > Are the players listed in the order in which they appeared in the
        > game? e.g Starting 5 followed by substitutions in the order in which
        > they entered the game? Or is it completely random?
        >
        > Any insight would be be appreciated.
        >
      • rbellotti@comcast.net
        Marc, Do you happen to know where one could get a copy of the NBA statistician s manual? Thanks, Bob ... From: Marc I can tell you that
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 14, 2007
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          Marc,
           
          Do you happen to know where one could get a copy of the NBA statistician's manual?
           
          Thanks,
          Bob
           
          -------------- Original message --------------
          From: "Marc" <nuscore@...>

          I can tell you that requirements and results are different for college
          and NBA. In the NBA, teams can only play (2)forwards, (2)guards and a
          center and they are supposed to be listed in the opening boxscore,
          according to the NBA statisticians manual in the following order:
          Small Forward, Power Forward, Center, Point Guard, Shooting Guard

          The subs are then entered in order of appearance on the floor with any
          players who do not appear at the bottom of the box in alphabetical
          order with their reason for not appearing. The inactives for the game
          appear in a separate line and not in the boxscore itself.

          For college, there are no requirements for how many of which position
          is in the line-up. There can be 5 guards or 5 forwards or any
          mixture. The software used by most college teams will have the line-
          ups appear in the following way: forward(s) followed by center(s)
          followed by guard(s). In each category, the starters will be in o rder
          numerically.

          The subs will appear in numerical order no matter how they entered the
          game below the starters and players who do not get into the game will
          not appear anywhere on the boxscore.

          Hope this helps.
          --- In APBR_analysis@ yahoogroups. com, "baqontraq1211"
          <baqontraq1211@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > I have looked over older box scores and was wondering if there was
          any
          > rhyme or reason to the way players are listed.
          >
          > Specifically I am looking at the late 1950s and early 1960s at the
          > moment.
          >
          > Are the players listed in the order in which they appeared in the
          > game? e.g Starting 5 followed by substitutions in the order in which
          > they entered the game? Or is it completely random?
          >
          > Any insight would be be appreciated.
          >

        • baqontraq1211
          That is a fantastic (and quick) response to my question. As a follow on question, though, when did this come into effect? I would love to be able to check out
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 14, 2007
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            That is a fantastic (and quick) response to my question.

            As a follow on question, though, when did this come into effect?

            I would love to be able to check out older box scores and know the
            exact roster. Unfortunately, it seems to be a more recent development
            to list players who never got off the bench during that game.

            likewise, knowing the date these guidelines came into effect would be
            of great help in figuring out which roles the pro coaches had their
            players covering for a specific game.

            Reagrdless of a possible answer to this question, thank you for already
            having taken the time to respond.

            ~~~Drew
          • baqontraq1211
            I didn t want to clutter the board with questions from me, but none of the box scores I have seen so far from 1959-60 have listed rebounds and assists - but
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 18, 2007
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              I didn't want to clutter the board with questions from me, but none of
              the box scores I have seen so far from 1959-60 have listed rebounds and
              assists - but from looking at random news articles they were being kept.

              I have seen stats for the entire year at basketballreference.com but
              where might I find individual game stats?

              Are there specific newspapers that consistently put out the most
              compete stats?

              Is there some kind of resource out there that can be tapped into?
              >
            • baqontraq1211
              I treid taking a look too to see what i might find but no luck. My best guess is that someone with media credentials could gain access to the private,
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 18, 2007
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                I treid taking a look too to see what i might find but no luck. My
                best guess is that someone with media credentials could gain access to
                the private, media-only section of nba.com and it would be there.



                --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, rbellotti@... wrote:
                >
                > Marc,
                >
                > Do you happen to know where one could get a copy of the NBA
                statistician's manual?
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Bob
                >
                >
              • A.P.
                Yeah you need a credential. They did at one time have nbamediacentral.com open but you needed a password to get in. If you hadn t work for a Member or know
                Message 7 of 11 , Dec 19, 2007
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                  Yeah you need a credential. They did at one time have nbamediacentral.com open but you needed a password to get in. If you hadn't work for a Member or know someone whom isn't afraid to get and give the information then you wouldn't have access now. Try acquiring a Blue Book. I hope that this helps.

                  baqontraq1211 <baqontraq1211@...> wrote:
                  I treid taking a look too to see what i might find but no luck. My
                  best guess is that someone with media credentials could gain access to
                  the private, media-only section of nba.com and it would be there.

                  --- In APBR_analysis@ yahoogroups. com, rbellotti@.. . wrote:
                  >
                  > Marc,
                  >
                  > Do you happen to know where one could get a copy of the NBA
                  statistician' s manual?
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  > Bob
                  >
                  >



                  Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

                • A.P.
                  Try the NBA Operations Manual rbellotti@comcast.net wrote: Marc, Do you happen to know where one could get a copy of the NBA statistician s manual?
                  Message 8 of 11 , Dec 19, 2007
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                    Try the NBA Operations Manual

                    rbellotti@... wrote:
                    Marc,
                     
                    Do you happen to know where one could get a copy of the NBA statistician' s manual?
                     
                    Thanks,
                    Bob
                     
                    ------------ -- Original message ------------ --
                    From: "Marc" <nuscore@hotmail. com>
                    I can tell you that requirements and results are different for college
                    and NBA. In the NBA, teams can only play (2)forwards, (2)guards and a
                    center and they are supposed to be listed in the opening boxscore,
                    according to the NBA statisticians manual in the following order:
                    Small Forward, Power Forward, Center, Point Guard, Shooting Guard

                    The subs are then entered in order of appearance on the floor with any
                    players who do not appear at the bottom of the box in alphabetical
                    order with their reason for not appearing. The inactives for the game
                    appear in a separate line and not in the boxscore itself.

                    For college, there are no requirements for how many of which position
                    is in the line-up. There can be 5 guards or 5 forwards or any
                    mixture. The software used by most college teams will have the line-
                    ups appear in the following way: forward(s) followed by center(s)
                    followed by guard(s). In each category, the starters will be in o rder
                    numerically.

                    The subs will appear in numerical order no matter how they entered the
                    game below the starters and players who do not get into the game will
                    not appear anywhere on the boxscore.

                    Hope this helps.
                    --- In APBR_analysis@ yahoogroups. com, "baqontraq1211"
                    <baqontraq1211@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I have looked over older box scores and was wondering if there was
                    any
                    > rhyme or reason to the way players are listed.
                    >
                    > Specifically I am looking at the late 1950s and early 1960s at the
                    > moment.
                    >
                    > Are the players listed in the order in which they appeared in the
                    > game? e.g Starting 5 followed by substitutions in the order in which
                    > they entered the game? Or is it completely random?
                    >
                    > Any insight would be be appreciated.
                    >



                    Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                  • A.P.
                    How did you find those? And what are you doing with those numbers? baqontraq1211 wrote: I have looked over older box scores
                    Message 9 of 11 , Dec 19, 2007
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                      How did you find those? And what are you doing with those numbers?

                      baqontraq1211 <baqontraq1211@...> wrote:
                      I have looked over older box scores and was wondering if there was any
                      rhyme or reason to the way players are listed.

                      Specifically I am looking at the late 1950s and early 1960s at the
                      moment.

                      Are the players listed in the order in which they appeared in the
                      game? e.g Starting 5 followed by substitutions in the order in which
                      they entered the game? Or is it completely random?

                      Any insight would be be appreciated.



                      Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

                    • baqontraq1211
                      I ve been doing the the hard way. Picking through old newspapers trying to find box scores, game write ups, the rare analytical piece here and there. It
                      Message 10 of 11 , Dec 19, 2007
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                        I've been doing the the hard way. Picking through old newspapers
                        trying to find box scores, game write ups, the rare analytical piece
                        here and there. It seems there is always a simpler way you find
                        after the fact that would have saved a lot of time and effort.

                        In any case, right now I am just looking to take a comprehensive look
                        at the lakers' 1959-60 season - the last one in Minneapolis. I'm
                        basically just doing it as a fan.

                        Ideally I will end up with:
                        1.) Having seen a write up and box score for every game of the season.
                        2.) Comprehensive and accurate (if possible)transaction log for the
                        year for the Lakers.
                        3.) League transactions for the year (which will also help me
                        identify the unlisted DNPs for the box scores)

                        The end goal is a personal "yearbook" of sorts. Getting one done
                        should help making others easier.


                        --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "A.P." <justapb@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > How did you find those? And what are you doing with those numbers?
                        >
                        > baqontraq1211 <baqontraq1211@...> wrote: I have looked
                        over older box scores and was wondering if there was any
                        > rhyme or reason to the way players are listed.
                        >
                        > Specifically I am looking at the late 1950s and early 1960s at the
                        > moment.
                        >
                        > Are the players listed in the order in which they appeared in the
                        > game? e.g Starting 5 followed by substitutions in the order in
                        which
                        > they entered the game? Or is it completely random?
                        >
                        > Any insight would be be appreciated.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
                        > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!
                        Search.
                        >
                      • Patricio Raúl Minig
                        Contratulations, great work. I d love to do something like that, but from Argentina it s very difficult to do. Regards, Pato To:
                        Message 11 of 11 , Dec 23, 2007
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                          Contratulations, great work. I'd love to do something like that, but from Argentina it's very difficult to do.
                          Regards,
                          Pato



                          To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
                          From: baqontraq1211@...
                          Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 03:45:27 +0000
                          Subject: [APBR_analysis] Re: Box score order question

                          I've been doing the the hard way. Picking through old newspapers
                          trying to find box scores, game write ups, the rare analytical piece
                          here and there. It seems there is always a simpler way you find
                          after the fact that would have saved a lot of time and effort.

                          In any case, right now I am just looking to take a comprehensive look
                          at the lakers' 1959-60 season - the last one in Minneapolis. I'm
                          basically just doing it as a fan.

                          Ideally I will end up with:
                          1.) Having seen a write up and box score for every game of the season.
                          2.) Comprehensive and accurate (if possible)transactio n log for the
                          year for the Lakers.
                          3.) League transactions for the year (which will also help me
                          identify the unlisted DNPs for the box scores)

                          The end goal is a personal "yearbook" of sorts. Getting one done
                          should help making others easier.

                          --- In APBR_analysis@ yahoogroups. com, "A.P." <justapb@... > wrote:
                          >
                          > How did you find those? And what are you doing with those numbers?
                          >
                          > baqontraq1211 <baqontraq1211@ ...> wrote: I have looked
                          over older box scores and was wondering if there was any
                          > rhyme or reason to the way players are listed.
                          >
                          > Specifically I am looking at the late 1950s and early 1960s at the
                          > moment.
                          >
                          > Are the players listed in the order in which they appeared in the
                          > game? e.g Starting 5 followed by substitutions in the order in
                          which
                          > they entered the game? Or is it completely random?
                          >
                          > Any insight would be be appreciated.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                          > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!
                          Search.
                          >




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