Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [APBR_analysis] Re: Shane Battier - a great player?

Expand Messages
  • Stephen Greenwell
    If Allen Iverson goes for a steal and misses, which happens about five times a game, and as a result his man gets a wide-open shot, that isn t recorded either.
    Message 1 of 22 , Jan 28, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      If Allen Iverson goes for a steal and misses, which happens about five
      times a game, and as a result his man gets a wide-open shot, that
      isn't recorded either.

      Out of curiosity, has anyone ever looked at what NBA players shoot when they're WIDE OPEN?  I'm talking about practice, game time, etc.  From anecdotal experience, I generally shoot about the same (or at least I think I do!) assuming I have a clean look and don't have to alter a shot - The distance of the guy/girl from me doesn't matter.

      Even if there *is* a difference, does the increase in shooting percentage negate the value of an occasional block or steal?  For example, does Iverson's man improve from a 40 to 75 percent shooter if he's left unguarded?  Can anyone shoot a jumper for this high of a percentage even if they're left wide open?  Watching players in practice, I've seen some people go on streaks of 3 to 10 threes in a row, but I've also seen this in a game where the shot sample size is much smaller.  At what point does improved shooting percentage from an out-of-position defender make up for steals and blocks generated?

      I doubt there are answers to all (or any) of my questions, but I'm interested to know if anyone has any thoughts.

      Stephen Greenwell
    • Philip Maymin
      I tracked practice shots for a variety of players in shootaround before the media access times (the real shootaround as opposed to the one for the fans) and
      Message 2 of 22 , Jan 29, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        I tracked practice shots for a variety of players in shootaround
        before the media access times (the "real" shootaround as opposed to
        the one for the fans) and though it seemed a little higher, especially
        when someone initially unexpected like Richard Jefferson started
        nailing consecutive very long threes halfway to halfcourt, when I
        compared the percentages they weren't all that different from his game
        performances. There's a confirmatory bias at work if you just watch
        someone shoot: you dismiss a couple clanks as "near hits", a bunch of
        clanks as "warming up," and when they hit a couple in a row you think
        they are 100%. Turns out your experience is about right in that the
        defender tends not to matter too much, though I don't have an
        extremely large sample size. Certainly free throw shooting didn't seem
        to be any different in practice than in games.


        On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 02:03:21 -0500, Stephen Greenwell
        <sgre6768@...> wrote:
        > If Allen Iverson goes for a steal and misses, which happens about five
        > times a game, and as a result his man gets a wide-open shot, that
        > isn't recorded either.
        > Out of curiosity, has anyone ever looked at what NBA players shoot when
        > they're WIDE OPEN? I'm talking about practice, game time, etc. From
        > anecdotal experience, I generally shoot about the same (or at least I think
        > I do!) assuming I have a clean look and don't have to alter a shot - The
        > distance of the guy/girl from me doesn't matter.
        >
        > Even if there *is* a difference, does the increase in shooting percentage
        > negate the value of an occasional block or steal? For example, does
        > Iverson's man improve from a 40 to 75 percent shooter if he's left
        > unguarded? Can anyone shoot a jumper for this high of a percentage even if
        > they're left wide open? Watching players in practice, I've seen some people
        > go on streaks of 3 to 10 threes in a row, but I've also seen this in a game
        > where the shot sample size is much smaller. At what point does improved
        > shooting percentage from an out-of-position defender make up for steals and
        > blocks generated?
        >
        > I doubt there are answers to all (or any) of my questions, but I'm
        > interested to know if anyone has any thoughts.
        >
        > Stephen Greenwell
        > ________________________________
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/APBR_analysis/
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > APBR_analysis-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      • Roland Beech
        We ve done some charting of contested versus uncontested shots, and yes there is quite a difference: http://www.82games.com/saccon.htm ... From: Stephen
        Message 3 of 22 , Jan 29, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          We've done some charting of contested versus uncontested shots, and yes there is quite a difference:
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 11:03 PM
          Subject: Re: [APBR_analysis] Re: Shane Battier - a great player?

          If Allen Iverson goes for a steal and misses, which happens about five
          times a game, and as a result his man gets a wide-open shot, that
          isn't recorded either.

          Out of curiosity, has anyone ever looked at what NBA players shoot when they're WIDE OPEN?  I'm talking about practice, game time, etc.  From anecdotal experience, I generally shoot about the same (or at least I think I do!) assuming I have a clean look and don't have to alter a shot - The distance of the guy/girl from me doesn't matter.

          Even if there *is* a difference, does the increase in shooting percentage negate the value of an occasional block or steal?  For example, does Iverson's man improve from a 40 to 75 percent shooter if he's left unguarded?  Can anyone shoot a jumper for this high of a percentage even if they're left wide open?  Watching players in practice, I've seen some people go on streaks of 3 to 10 threes in a row, but I've also seen this in a game where the shot sample size is much smaller.  At what point does improved shooting percentage from an out-of-position defender make up for steals and blocks generated?

          I doubt there are answers to all (or any) of my questions, but I'm interested to know if anyone has any thoughts.

          Stephen Greenwell
        • Coach McCormick
          I ve seen Peja Stojakovic make about 25-30 threes in a row in practice. Heck, I saw Mateen Cleaves make 10 in a row... Philip Maymin
          Message 4 of 22 , Jan 29, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            I've seen Peja Stojakovic make about 25-30 threes in a row in practice. Heck, I saw Mateen Cleaves make 10 in a row...

            Philip Maymin <pmaymin@...> wrote:
            I tracked practice shots for a variety of players in shootaround
            before the media access times (the "real" shootaround as opposed to
            the one for the fans) and though it seemed a little higher, especially
            when someone initially unexpected like Richard Jefferson started
            nailing consecutive very long threes halfway to halfcourt, when I
            compared the percentages they weren't all that different from his game
            performances. There's a confirmatory bias at work if you just watch
            someone shoot: you dismiss a couple clanks as "near hits", a bunch of
            clanks as "warming up," and when they hit a couple in a row you think
            they are 100%. Turns out your experience is about right in that the
            defender tends not to matter too much, though I don't have an
            extremely large sample size. Certainly free throw shooting didn't seem
            to be any different in practice than in games.


            On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 02:03:21 -0500, Stephen Greenwell
            <sgre6768@...> wrote:
            > If Allen Iverson goes for a steal and misses, which happens about five
            > times a game, and as a result his man gets a wide-open shot, that
            > isn't recorded either.
            > Out of curiosity, has anyone ever looked at what NBA players shoot when
            > they're WIDE OPEN?  I'm talking about practice, game time, etc.  From
            > anecdotal experience, I generally shoot about the same (or at least I think
            > I do!) assuming I have a clean look and don't have to alter a shot - The
            > distance of the guy/girl from me doesn't matter.
            >
            > Even if there *is* a difference, does the increase in shooting percentage
            > negate the value of an occasional block or steal?  For example, does
            > Iverson's man improve from a 40 to 75 percent shooter if he's left
            > unguarded?  Can anyone shoot a jumper for this high of a percentage even if
            > they're left wide open?  Watching players in practice, I've seen some people
            > go on streaks of 3 to 10 threes in a row, but I've also seen this in a game
            > where the shot sample size is much smaller.  At what point does improved
            > shooting percentage from an out-of-position defender make up for steals and
            > blocks generated?
            >
            > I doubt there are answers to all (or any) of my questions, but I'm
            > interested to know if anyone has any thoughts.
            >
            > Stephen Greenwell
            > ________________________________
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/APBR_analysis/
            >  
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > APBR_analysis-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >  
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            Do you Yahoo!?
            The all-new My Yahoo! � Get yours free!
          • John Hollinger
            I m with you on that -- I ve seen NBA players (and not even good ones) make an amazing number of consecutive 3s in warm ups. ... practice. Heck, I saw Mateen
            Message 5 of 22 , Jan 30, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              I'm with you on that -- I've seen NBA players (and not even good
              ones) make an amazing number of consecutive 3s in warm ups.


              --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Coach McCormick
              <highfivehoopschool@y...> wrote:
              > I've seen Peja Stojakovic make about 25-30 threes in a row in
              practice. Heck, I saw Mateen Cleaves make 10 in a row...
              >
              > Philip Maymin <pmaymin@g...> wrote:I tracked practice shots for a
              variety of players in shootaround
              > before the media access times (the "real" shootaround as opposed to
              > the one for the fans) and though it seemed a little higher,
              especially
              > when someone initially unexpected like Richard Jefferson started
              > nailing consecutive very long threes halfway to halfcourt, when I
              > compared the percentages they weren't all that different from his
              game
              > performances. There's a confirmatory bias at work if you just watch
              > someone shoot: you dismiss a couple clanks as "near hits", a bunch
              of
              > clanks as "warming up," and when they hit a couple in a row you
              think
              > they are 100%. Turns out your experience is about right in that the
              > defender tends not to matter too much, though I don't have an
              > extremely large sample size. Certainly free throw shooting didn't
              seem
              > to be any different in practice than in games.
              >
              >
              > On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 02:03:21 -0500, Stephen Greenwell
              > <sgre6768@p...> wrote:
              > > If Allen Iverson goes for a steal and misses, which happens about
              five
              > > times a game, and as a result his man gets a wide-open shot, that
              > > isn't recorded either.
              > > Out of curiosity, has anyone ever looked at what NBA players
              shoot when
              > > they're WIDE OPEN? I'm talking about practice, game time, etc.
              From
              > > anecdotal experience, I generally shoot about the same (or at
              least I think
              > > I do!) assuming I have a clean look and don't have to alter a
              shot - The
              > > distance of the guy/girl from me doesn't matter.
              > >
              > > Even if there *is* a difference, does the increase in shooting
              percentage
              > > negate the value of an occasional block or steal? For example,
              does
              > > Iverson's man improve from a 40 to 75 percent shooter if he's left
              > > unguarded? Can anyone shoot a jumper for this high of a
              percentage even if
              > > they're left wide open? Watching players in practice, I've seen
              some people
              > > go on streaks of 3 to 10 threes in a row, but I've also seen this
              in a game
              > > where the shot sample size is much smaller. At what point does
              improved
              > > shooting percentage from an out-of-position defender make up for
              steals and
              > > blocks generated?
              > >
              > > I doubt there are answers to all (or any) of my questions, but I'm
              > > interested to know if anyone has any thoughts.
              > >
              > > Stephen Greenwell
              > > ________________________________
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/APBR_analysis/
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > APBR_analysis-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/APBR_analysis/
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > APBR_analysis-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Do you Yahoo!?
              > The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
            • Dean Oliver
              Even worse, I ve seen me make 8 in a row. A hand in the face matters. How you do it matters. When you do it matters. Defense is what I did... because I
              Message 6 of 22 , Jan 30, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Even worse, I've seen me make 8 in a row.

                A hand in the face matters. How you do it matters. When you do it
                matters. Defense is what I did... because I certainly couldn't make 8
                in a row in a game.

                DeanO

                Dean Oliver
                Consultant to the Seattle Supersonics
                Author, Basketball on Paper
                http://www.basketballonpaper.com
                "Oliver's book provides an insightful framework for basketball. His
                approach highlights and simplifies the basic goals of team offenses
                and defenses, with an interesting description of how teamwork among
                players with different roles can be evaluated. This book is a unique
                and surprisingly practical addition to a coach's library." Dean
                Smith, Hall of Fame Basketball Coach, University of North Carolina


                --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Coach McCormick
                <highfivehoopschool@y...> wrote:
                > I've seen Peja Stojakovic make about 25-30 threes in a row in
                practice. Heck, I saw Mateen Cleaves make 10 in a row...
                >
                > Philip Maymin <pmaymin@g...> wrote:I tracked practice shots for a
                variety of players in shootaround
                > before the media access times (the "real" shootaround as opposed to
                > the one for the fans) and though it seemed a little higher, especially
                > when someone initially unexpected like Richard Jefferson started
                > nailing consecutive very long threes halfway to halfcourt, when I
                > compared the percentages they weren't all that different from his game
                > performances. There's a confirmatory bias at work if you just watch
                > someone shoot: you dismiss a couple clanks as "near hits", a bunch of
                > clanks as "warming up," and when they hit a couple in a row you think
                > they are 100%. Turns out your experience is about right in that the
                > defender tends not to matter too much, though I don't have an
                > extremely large sample size. Certainly free throw shooting didn't seem
                > to be any different in practice than in games.
                >
                >
                > On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 02:03:21 -0500, Stephen Greenwell
                > <sgre6768@p...> wrote:
                > > If Allen Iverson goes for a steal and misses, which happens about
                five
                > > times a game, and as a result his man gets a wide-open shot, that
                > > isn't recorded either.
                > > Out of curiosity, has anyone ever looked at what NBA players shoot
                when
                > > they're WIDE OPEN? I'm talking about practice, game time, etc. From
                > > anecdotal experience, I generally shoot about the same (or at
                least I think
                > > I do!) assuming I have a clean look and don't have to alter a shot
                - The
                > > distance of the guy/girl from me doesn't matter.
                > >
                > > Even if there *is* a difference, does the increase in shooting
                percentage
                > > negate the value of an occasional block or steal? For example, does
                > > Iverson's man improve from a 40 to 75 percent shooter if he's left
                > > unguarded? Can anyone shoot a jumper for this high of a
                percentage even if
                > > they're left wide open? Watching players in practice, I've seen
                some people
                > > go on streaks of 3 to 10 threes in a row, but I've also seen this
                in a game
                > > where the shot sample size is much smaller. At what point does
                improved
                > > shooting percentage from an out-of-position defender make up for
                steals and
                > > blocks generated?
                > >
                > > I doubt there are answers to all (or any) of my questions, but I'm
                > > interested to know if anyone has any thoughts.
                > >
                > > Stephen Greenwell
                > > ________________________________
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/APBR_analysis/
                > >
                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > APBR_analysis-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/APBR_analysis/
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > APBR_analysis-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Do you Yahoo!?
                > The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.