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RE: [APBR_analysis] Re: run and gun

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  • Michael Tamada
    ... From: Dean Oliver [mailto:deano@rawbw.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 12:24 PM [...] ... I might go to the Caltech game, since it s so nearby and it s
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 25, 2005
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Dean Oliver [mailto:deano@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 12:24 PM


      [...]

      >That style should keep a team competitive and Redlands' conference
      >games have all been quite tight. Losses of 1, 4, 7, and 16 points.
      >They have been blown out of only one game seemingly, 1 28 pt loss to
      >CA Baptist, a good team (153-181!). Caltech plays them this weekend
      >and, though Tech is not the lowest rated team in D3 this year, it
      >should be ugly. But, wait, we actually played Whittier to a 70-76
      >game the other night and Whittier is 11-4! Here comes the Beavers!

      I might go to the Caltech game, since it's so nearby and it's
      interesting to watch the Redlands O and D in action. The annoying
      part is that I think Caltech charges $5 to enter their gym. If
      Oxy's got free admission, Caltech should be giving money to us to
      watch!

      I was on the verge of predicting a score like 180-30, but last
      year the Redlands vs Caltech scores were 127-32 and 120-43, so
      those are probably more realistic.


      --MKT
    • Michael Tamada
      ... From: Michael Tamada Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:26 PM ... If anyone s interested (probably only DeanO), here s my report from the Redlands @
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 31, 2005
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Michael Tamada
        Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:26 PM


        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: Dean Oliver [mailto:deano@...]
        >Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 12:24 PM
        >
        >[...]
        >
        >>That style should keep a team competitive and Redlands' conference
        >>games have all been quite tight. Losses of 1, 4, 7, and 16 points.
        >>They have been blown out of only one game seemingly, 1 28 pt loss to
        >>CA Baptist, a good team (153-181!). Caltech plays them this weekend
        >>and, though Tech is not the lowest rated team in D3 this year, it
        >>should be ugly. But, wait, we actually played Whittier to a 70-76
        >>game the other night and Whittier is 11-4! Here comes the Beavers!
        >
        >I might go to the Caltech game, since it's so nearby and it's

        If anyone's interested (probably only DeanO), here's my report
        from the Redlands @ Caltech game.

        The score was pretty lopsided, but not as lopsided as I'd been
        expecting; 155-107. Redlands looked sloppier and less accurate
        at 3-pointers than they had in the game I saw earlier, at least
        early on (looking at the box scores though, they shot 33% or 34%
        in both games). Caltech stayed quite close early on, but around
        the middle of the first half, Redlands' 3-pointers started
        falling, the Caltech turnovers started increasing (they finished
        the game with 52, compared to 18 for Redlands), and Redlands
        led at halftime 77-51. Second half was more of the same.

        Some differences between this game and the Oxy game:

        The Caltech game was a foul-fest; 74 fouls total. Caltech
        attempted more free throws (62) than field goals (54)! The
        Oxy game had only 42 fouls total, including the deliberate
        fouls late in the gmae.

        Bad blood between the teams? There was at least one flagrant foul
        (or whatever they call it in the NCAA -- a foul on a breakaway),
        and 2 technical fouls called on both Redlands and Caltech. I
        couldn't figure out what a single one of the technicals was for
        however; and I didn't see or hear any unusual woofing amongst
        the players (this being Caltech, I was able to sit in the second
        row from the court). Some annoying hecklers among the Caltech
        crowd was all I could detect (one of the Redlands fans took to
        calling one of the Caltech hecklers "7-Up", for the 7-Up bottle
        he was carrying around and swilling from, and which pretty
        clearly did not contain 7-Up).

        Redlands initially treated the inbounder the way they did
        against Oxy: that inbounder's defender would turn his
        back to the ball and look for cutters to run out and cover.
        But after maybe the first two minutes, Redlands switched to
        the more common tactic of having the defender face the
        inbounder and try to block his pass directly. Why they
        did this I don't know; it didn't seem to me to be more
        effective than their back-to-the-inbounder tactic.

        Caltech attempted only one 3-pointer during the entire game,
        similar to Oxy (which attempted none). It's not clear to
        me that this is a good strategy; on the other hand, Oxy
        shot 74% on 2-pointers and even Caltech shot 63%, so these
        could be teams who, by going for the break-the-trap-and-
        get-a-layin strategy, shoot so well on 2-pointers that
        the 3-pointer becomes a useless weapon.

        I'd been expecting about a 70-point blowout but Caltech
        made it a lot closer than that, thanks mainly to their
        three best players:

        Jordan Carlson, who I'd seen as a freshman two years ago.
        At 6'5" he's one of Caltech's tallest players, but even
        as a freshman he frequently served as a PG.

        Bryan Hires is a 6'6" freshman; he doesn't have Carlson's
        PG capabilities, but can still dribble and pass in the
        open court. More importantly, both are athletic and
        skilled; they blocked 6 shots between them and were
        among Caltech's top 2 or 3 scorers and rebounders.
        Carlson's 13 turnovers (ouch) were not a positive, but
        I don't know how many of them were literally his fault
        vs. Caltech's general wilting against Redlands' press
        and traps.

        What I didn't see either of them do was hit many
        outside shots; on the other hand Caltech was clearly
        concentrating on looking for layins, so they didn't
        attempt many.

        The third player was junior Day Ivy, at 5'11" (meaning
        he's probably actually 5'9") he is short even for a Caltech
        player. But being from Inglewood and evidently African
        American makes him even more unusual for a Caltecher. He's
        got very good quickness and athleticism. His 5th foul
        with about 10 minutes left, along with Hires foulling out
        at about the same time, put the final nails in Caltech's
        coffin; albeit their doom had been pretty much sealed in
        the first half anyway.

        The bleachers were almost full -- of course these are
        very small bleachers, I estimate attendance at about
        300, which was still about twice as many as I was
        expecting.


        --MKT
      • Mike Harris
        ... Not to be a wet blanket, but that wouldn t work. You can t buzz in until Alex is done reading and a little light comes on. If you do buzz before that,
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 1, 2005
          Mike G wrote:

          >The Grinnell style makes me think of how I was thinking of getting
          >on Jeopardy and playing: just press the buzzer every time,
          >immediately. Shut out the other players; hit and miss a bunch. The
          >competition might get frustrated, copy my style, and do even worse.
          >
          >At some point the "travesty" laws might be invoked. When a strategy
          >just buries your chances, and yet you persist, what else would it be
          >called?
          >
          Not to be a wet blanket, but that wouldn't work. You can't buzz in
          until Alex is done reading and a little light comes on. If you do buzz
          before that, you're locked out of buzzing (for a certain number of
          seconds I believe). That's why the ability to time the buzzer is so
          important.
        • John Hollinger
          For those who somehow have missed all the promos, Grinnell will be on ESPN2 tonight at 9, which I guess is 6 for practically everyone else here except Dan and
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 3, 2005
            For those who somehow have missed all the promos, Grinnell will be on ESPN2 tonight at
            9, which I guess is 6 for practically everyone else here except Dan and me.


            --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Mike Harris <GENIE@p...> wrote:
            > Mike G wrote:
            >
            > >The Grinnell style makes me think of how I was thinking of getting
            > >on Jeopardy and playing: just press the buzzer every time,
            > >immediately. Shut out the other players; hit and miss a bunch. The
            > >competition might get frustrated, copy my style, and do even worse.
            > >
            > >At some point the "travesty" laws might be invoked. When a strategy
            > >just buries your chances, and yet you persist, what else would it be
            > >called?
            > >
            > Not to be a wet blanket, but that wouldn't work. You can't buzz in
            > until Alex is done reading and a little light comes on. If you do buzz
            > before that, you're locked out of buzzing (for a certain number of
            > seconds I believe). That's why the ability to time the buzzer is so
            > important.
          • Coach McCormick
            my take: http://highfivehoopschool.blogspot.com John Hollinger wrote: For those who somehow have missed all the promos, Grinnell will be
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 3, 2005
              my take: http://highfivehoopschool.blogspot.com

              John Hollinger <alleyoop2@...> wrote:

              For those who somehow have missed all the promos, Grinnell will be on ESPN2 tonight at
              9, which I guess is 6 for practically everyone else here except Dan and me.


              --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Mike Harris <GENIE@p...> wrote:
              > Mike G wrote:
              >
              > >The Grinnell style makes me think of how I was thinking of getting
              > >on Jeopardy and playing: just press the buzzer every time,
              > >immediately.  Shut out the other players; hit and miss a bunch.  The
              > >competition might get frustrated, copy my style, and do even worse.
              > >
              > >At some point the "travesty" laws might be invoked.  When a strategy
              > >just buries your chances, and yet you persist, what else would it be
              > >called?
              > >
              > Not to be a wet blanket, but that wouldn't work.  You can't buzz in
              > until Alex is done reading and a little light comes on.  If you do buzz
              > before that, you're locked out of buzzing (for a certain number of
              > seconds I believe).  That's why the ability to time the buzzer is so
              > important.




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