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RE: [APBR_analysis] Re: run and gun

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  • Michael Tamada
    This Sunday s LA Times had a big article by Bill Plaschke about the University of Redlands and their Grinnell-style strategy; the article coincidentally
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 25, 2005
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      This Sunday's LA Times had a big article by Bill Plaschke about the University of Redlands and their Grinnell-style strategy; the article coincidentally centered around the Redlands at Occidental game that I attended.
       
       
      The online version of the article doesn't have a graph showing Redlands' game-by-game scores, which also says that at 139 points per game, they're on a pace to set an NCAA record for points per game.
       
       
      --MKT
    • Coach McCormick
      is it true they are 0-4 in league. I read that on another web site. B Michael Tamada wrote: This Sunday s LA Times had a big article by Bill
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 25, 2005
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        is it true they are 0-4 in league. I read that on another web site.
         
        B

        Michael Tamada <tamada@...> wrote:
        This Sunday's LA Times had a big article by Bill Plaschke about the University of Redlands and their Grinnell-style strategy; the article coincidentally centered around the Redlands at Occidental game that I attended.
         
         
        The online version of the article doesn't have a graph showing Redlands' game-by-game scores, which also says that at 139 points per game, they're on a pace to set an NCAA record for points per game.
         
         
        --MKT


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      • Michael Tamada
        Yup, the article and Redlands website both say 0-4. I conjecture that the rest of the conference is better prepared each year for them ... non-conference
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 25, 2005
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          Yup, the article and Redlands' website both say 0-4.  I conjecture that the rest of the conference is better prepared each year for them ... non-conference teams would have a tougher time, not seeing them twice every year.  Or maybe the teams they've played just happen to be the tough ones in the league, I don't know. 
           
          --MKT
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Coach McCormick [mailto:highfivehoopschool@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 8:24 AM
          To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [APBR_analysis] Re: run and gun

          is it true they are 0-4 in league. I read that on another web site.
           
          B

          Michael Tamada <tamada@...> wrote:
          This Sunday's LA Times had a big article by Bill Plaschke about the University of Redlands and their Grinnell-style strategy; the article coincidentally centered around the Redlands at Occidental game that I attended.
           
           
          The online version of the article doesn't have a graph showing Redlands' game-by-game scores, which also says that at 139 points per game, they're on a pace to set an NCAA record for points per game.
           
           
          --MKT


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        • Dean Oliver
          ... that the rest of the conference is better prepared each year for them ... non-conference teams would have a tougher time, not seeing them twice every year.
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 25, 2005
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            --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Tamada" <tamada@o...>
            wrote:
            > Yup, the article and Redlands' website both say 0-4. I conjecture
            that the rest of the conference is better prepared each year for them
            ... non-conference teams would have a tougher time, not seeing them
            twice every year. Or maybe the teams they've played just happen to be
            the tough ones in the league, I don't know.

            The SCIAC page hasn't been updated, interestingly.

            That style should keep a team competitive and Redlands' conference
            games have all been quite tight. Losses of 1, 4, 7, and 16 points.
            They have been blown out of only one game seemingly, 1 28 pt loss to
            CA Baptist, a good team (153-181!). Caltech plays them this weekend
            and, though Tech is not the lowest rated team in D3 this year, it
            should be ugly. But, wait, we actually played Whittier to a 70-76
            game the other night and Whittier is 11-4! Here comes the Beavers!

            DeanO

            Dean Oliver
            Consultant to the Seattle Supersonics
            Author, Basketball on Paper
            http://www.basketballonpaper.com
            "Basketball on Paper is a revolutionary strike for statistical
            analysis of the game of basketball..." Hoopsworld.com's Kevin Pelton
          • Michael Tamada
            ... From: Dean Oliver [mailto:deano@rawbw.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 12:24 PM [...] ... I might go to the Caltech game, since it s so nearby and it s
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 25, 2005
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              -----Original Message-----
              From: Dean Oliver [mailto:deano@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 12:24 PM


              [...]

              >That style should keep a team competitive and Redlands' conference
              >games have all been quite tight. Losses of 1, 4, 7, and 16 points.
              >They have been blown out of only one game seemingly, 1 28 pt loss to
              >CA Baptist, a good team (153-181!). Caltech plays them this weekend
              >and, though Tech is not the lowest rated team in D3 this year, it
              >should be ugly. But, wait, we actually played Whittier to a 70-76
              >game the other night and Whittier is 11-4! Here comes the Beavers!

              I might go to the Caltech game, since it's so nearby and it's
              interesting to watch the Redlands O and D in action. The annoying
              part is that I think Caltech charges $5 to enter their gym. If
              Oxy's got free admission, Caltech should be giving money to us to
              watch!

              I was on the verge of predicting a score like 180-30, but last
              year the Redlands vs Caltech scores were 127-32 and 120-43, so
              those are probably more realistic.


              --MKT
            • Michael Tamada
              ... From: Michael Tamada Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:26 PM ... If anyone s interested (probably only DeanO), here s my report from the Redlands @
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 31, 2005
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                -----Original Message-----
                From: Michael Tamada
                Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:26 PM


                >-----Original Message-----
                >From: Dean Oliver [mailto:deano@...]
                >Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 12:24 PM
                >
                >[...]
                >
                >>That style should keep a team competitive and Redlands' conference
                >>games have all been quite tight. Losses of 1, 4, 7, and 16 points.
                >>They have been blown out of only one game seemingly, 1 28 pt loss to
                >>CA Baptist, a good team (153-181!). Caltech plays them this weekend
                >>and, though Tech is not the lowest rated team in D3 this year, it
                >>should be ugly. But, wait, we actually played Whittier to a 70-76
                >>game the other night and Whittier is 11-4! Here comes the Beavers!
                >
                >I might go to the Caltech game, since it's so nearby and it's

                If anyone's interested (probably only DeanO), here's my report
                from the Redlands @ Caltech game.

                The score was pretty lopsided, but not as lopsided as I'd been
                expecting; 155-107. Redlands looked sloppier and less accurate
                at 3-pointers than they had in the game I saw earlier, at least
                early on (looking at the box scores though, they shot 33% or 34%
                in both games). Caltech stayed quite close early on, but around
                the middle of the first half, Redlands' 3-pointers started
                falling, the Caltech turnovers started increasing (they finished
                the game with 52, compared to 18 for Redlands), and Redlands
                led at halftime 77-51. Second half was more of the same.

                Some differences between this game and the Oxy game:

                The Caltech game was a foul-fest; 74 fouls total. Caltech
                attempted more free throws (62) than field goals (54)! The
                Oxy game had only 42 fouls total, including the deliberate
                fouls late in the gmae.

                Bad blood between the teams? There was at least one flagrant foul
                (or whatever they call it in the NCAA -- a foul on a breakaway),
                and 2 technical fouls called on both Redlands and Caltech. I
                couldn't figure out what a single one of the technicals was for
                however; and I didn't see or hear any unusual woofing amongst
                the players (this being Caltech, I was able to sit in the second
                row from the court). Some annoying hecklers among the Caltech
                crowd was all I could detect (one of the Redlands fans took to
                calling one of the Caltech hecklers "7-Up", for the 7-Up bottle
                he was carrying around and swilling from, and which pretty
                clearly did not contain 7-Up).

                Redlands initially treated the inbounder the way they did
                against Oxy: that inbounder's defender would turn his
                back to the ball and look for cutters to run out and cover.
                But after maybe the first two minutes, Redlands switched to
                the more common tactic of having the defender face the
                inbounder and try to block his pass directly. Why they
                did this I don't know; it didn't seem to me to be more
                effective than their back-to-the-inbounder tactic.

                Caltech attempted only one 3-pointer during the entire game,
                similar to Oxy (which attempted none). It's not clear to
                me that this is a good strategy; on the other hand, Oxy
                shot 74% on 2-pointers and even Caltech shot 63%, so these
                could be teams who, by going for the break-the-trap-and-
                get-a-layin strategy, shoot so well on 2-pointers that
                the 3-pointer becomes a useless weapon.

                I'd been expecting about a 70-point blowout but Caltech
                made it a lot closer than that, thanks mainly to their
                three best players:

                Jordan Carlson, who I'd seen as a freshman two years ago.
                At 6'5" he's one of Caltech's tallest players, but even
                as a freshman he frequently served as a PG.

                Bryan Hires is a 6'6" freshman; he doesn't have Carlson's
                PG capabilities, but can still dribble and pass in the
                open court. More importantly, both are athletic and
                skilled; they blocked 6 shots between them and were
                among Caltech's top 2 or 3 scorers and rebounders.
                Carlson's 13 turnovers (ouch) were not a positive, but
                I don't know how many of them were literally his fault
                vs. Caltech's general wilting against Redlands' press
                and traps.

                What I didn't see either of them do was hit many
                outside shots; on the other hand Caltech was clearly
                concentrating on looking for layins, so they didn't
                attempt many.

                The third player was junior Day Ivy, at 5'11" (meaning
                he's probably actually 5'9") he is short even for a Caltech
                player. But being from Inglewood and evidently African
                American makes him even more unusual for a Caltecher. He's
                got very good quickness and athleticism. His 5th foul
                with about 10 minutes left, along with Hires foulling out
                at about the same time, put the final nails in Caltech's
                coffin; albeit their doom had been pretty much sealed in
                the first half anyway.

                The bleachers were almost full -- of course these are
                very small bleachers, I estimate attendance at about
                300, which was still about twice as many as I was
                expecting.


                --MKT
              • Mike Harris
                ... Not to be a wet blanket, but that wouldn t work. You can t buzz in until Alex is done reading and a little light comes on. If you do buzz before that,
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 1, 2005
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                  Mike G wrote:

                  >The Grinnell style makes me think of how I was thinking of getting
                  >on Jeopardy and playing: just press the buzzer every time,
                  >immediately. Shut out the other players; hit and miss a bunch. The
                  >competition might get frustrated, copy my style, and do even worse.
                  >
                  >At some point the "travesty" laws might be invoked. When a strategy
                  >just buries your chances, and yet you persist, what else would it be
                  >called?
                  >
                  Not to be a wet blanket, but that wouldn't work. You can't buzz in
                  until Alex is done reading and a little light comes on. If you do buzz
                  before that, you're locked out of buzzing (for a certain number of
                  seconds I believe). That's why the ability to time the buzzer is so
                  important.
                • John Hollinger
                  For those who somehow have missed all the promos, Grinnell will be on ESPN2 tonight at 9, which I guess is 6 for practically everyone else here except Dan and
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 3, 2005
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                    For those who somehow have missed all the promos, Grinnell will be on ESPN2 tonight at
                    9, which I guess is 6 for practically everyone else here except Dan and me.


                    --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Mike Harris <GENIE@p...> wrote:
                    > Mike G wrote:
                    >
                    > >The Grinnell style makes me think of how I was thinking of getting
                    > >on Jeopardy and playing: just press the buzzer every time,
                    > >immediately. Shut out the other players; hit and miss a bunch. The
                    > >competition might get frustrated, copy my style, and do even worse.
                    > >
                    > >At some point the "travesty" laws might be invoked. When a strategy
                    > >just buries your chances, and yet you persist, what else would it be
                    > >called?
                    > >
                    > Not to be a wet blanket, but that wouldn't work. You can't buzz in
                    > until Alex is done reading and a little light comes on. If you do buzz
                    > before that, you're locked out of buzzing (for a certain number of
                    > seconds I believe). That's why the ability to time the buzzer is so
                    > important.
                  • Coach McCormick
                    my take: http://highfivehoopschool.blogspot.com John Hollinger wrote: For those who somehow have missed all the promos, Grinnell will be
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 3, 2005
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                      my take: http://highfivehoopschool.blogspot.com

                      John Hollinger <alleyoop2@...> wrote:

                      For those who somehow have missed all the promos, Grinnell will be on ESPN2 tonight at
                      9, which I guess is 6 for practically everyone else here except Dan and me.


                      --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Mike Harris <GENIE@p...> wrote:
                      > Mike G wrote:
                      >
                      > >The Grinnell style makes me think of how I was thinking of getting
                      > >on Jeopardy and playing: just press the buzzer every time,
                      > >immediately.  Shut out the other players; hit and miss a bunch.  The
                      > >competition might get frustrated, copy my style, and do even worse.
                      > >
                      > >At some point the "travesty" laws might be invoked.  When a strategy
                      > >just buries your chances, and yet you persist, what else would it be
                      > >called?
                      > >
                      > Not to be a wet blanket, but that wouldn't work.  You can't buzz in
                      > until Alex is done reading and a little light comes on.  If you do buzz
                      > before that, you're locked out of buzzing (for a certain number of
                      > seconds I believe).  That's why the ability to time the buzzer is so
                      > important.




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