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Re: Again on the Rider's of the world

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  • thedawgsareout
    ... will put up numbers ahead of what he s shown to be capable of. I noticed this in the expansion years. I may too be mis-reading this, but wouldn t that
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 1, 2002
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      --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "John W. Craven" <john1974@u...> wrote:
      > Actually, exactly the opposite. A mediocre player on a bad team
      will put up numbers ahead of what he's shown to be "capable" of. I
      noticed this in the expansion years.

      I may too be mis-reading this, but wouldn't that really only be the
      case if we were looking at primary statistics? Yes, the scoring
      average may go up, but any effective system of statistical analysis
      is going to show that this isn't an improvement, but merely the
      effect of more chances.

      If we're looking at a player's offensive effectiveness based in
      significant part on an efficiency ratio like points in possessions
      used, or something like that, I think the opposite effect is seen
      with secondary players. A guy that depends on teammates (Steve Kerr,
      for example) to create for him is going to have effectiveness which
      is largely a function of the quality of said teammates.

      It's my opinion (hope?) that doing something along the lines of my
      unassisted/assisted field goal project (I'm putting the results at
      www.sonicscentral.com/assists/index.html in case anyone besides DeanO
      is interested) will help to control to some extent for this effect.
    • John Craven
      ... From: thedawgsareout To: Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 2:08 PM Subject: [APBR_analysis] Re:
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 1, 2002
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "thedawgsareout" <kpelton08@...>
        To: <APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 2:08 PM
        Subject: [APBR_analysis] Re: Again on the Rider's of the world


        > --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "John W. Craven" <john1974@u...> wrote:
        > > Actually, exactly the opposite. A mediocre player on a bad team
        > will put up numbers ahead of what he's shown to be "capable" of. I
        > noticed this in the expansion years.
        >
        > I may too be mis-reading this, but wouldn't that really only be the
        > case if we were looking at primary statistics? Yes, the scoring
        > average may go up, but any effective system of statistical analysis
        > is going to show that this isn't an improvement, but merely the
        > effect of more chances.

        From what I've seen so far, I don't think so. One of my points with the
        creating-shots skill was that, all other things being equal, a 45% shooter
        who takes 25 shots a game is a more skilled player than a 45% shooter who
        takes 10 shots a game. The problem is, when one team wins 20 games and the
        other wins 55, then all other things _aren't_ equal. Allen Iverson is a very
        good player; Antawn Jamison (IMO) is not.

        >
        > If we're looking at a player's offensive effectiveness based in
        > significant part on an efficiency ratio like points in possessions
        > used, or something like that, I think the opposite effect is seen
        > with secondary players. A guy that depends on teammates (Steve Kerr,
        > for example) to create for him is going to have effectiveness which
        > is largely a function of the quality of said teammates.
        >
        > It's my opinion (hope?) that doing something along the lines of my
        > unassisted/assisted field goal project (I'm putting the results at
        > www.sonicscentral.com/assists/index.html in case anyone besides DeanO
        > is interested) will help to control to some extent for this effect.
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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        >
        >
        >
      • mikel_ind
        ... Having played just a bit, I would say Jamison is very, very good, and Iverson is great; Jamison is a star, Iverson is a superstar. Mike Goodman
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 1, 2002
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          --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "John Craven" <john1974@u...> wrote:
          > . . . Allen Iverson is a very
          > good player; Antawn Jamison (IMO) is not.

          Having played just a bit, I would say Jamison is very, very good,
          and Iverson is great; Jamison is a star, Iverson is a superstar.


          Mike Goodman
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