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Re: Stats that make you go hmmm...

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  • wizardskev
    It might be awhile -- Butler is now an assistant coach with the Wizards.
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 5, 2005
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      It might be awhile -- Butler is now an assistant coach with the Wizards.

      --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "John Hollinger"
      <alleyoop2@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Nope, nothing to do with PER. I think it's related to the same system
      > that told him Hedo Turkoglu was the MVP last year. How long do you
      > suppose it will be before the Mavs sign Mitchell Butler?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Gabe Farkas <gabefark@y...>
      > wrote:
      > > Has anyone checked out Mr Cuban's latest blog entry:
      > > http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000790025973 ?
      > >
      > > Anyone want to take a crack at deciphering? I'm
      > > guessing that PER (or some permutation of it) is
      > > prominently involved....
      > >
      > > __________________________________________________
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    • wizardskev
      My guess on the salary stuff is that one of those is a kind of raw salary and the other contains some kind of adjustment. That s what I do in my version of a
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 5, 2005
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        My guess on the salary stuff is that one of those is a kind of "raw"
        salary and the other contains some kind of adjustment. That's what I
        do in my version of a salary formula.

        --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Tamada" <tamada@o...>
        wrote:
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Gabe Farkas [mailto:gabefark@y...]
        > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:54 PM
        >
        >
        > >Has anyone checked out Mr Cuban's latest blog entry:
        > >http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000790025973 ?
        > >
        > >Anyone want to take a crack at deciphering? I'm
        > >guessing that PER (or some permutation of it) is
        > >prominently involved....
        >
        > From his description at the beginning, it sounds a lot
        > more like WinVal, or some version of it. But as for
        > the actual numbers, besides the points = offense-defense
        > calculation already explained, I don't know what's
        > going on with the other numbers.
        >
        > Some guesses:
        >
        > impact%: we know that Sagarin and Winston devalue
        > stats accumulated during garbage time, so this might
        > be a measure of what percent of a player's minutes
        > were non-garbage time, or perhaps an overall measure
        > of the non-garbage-ness of his overall minutes.
        >
        > Minutes: my first guess is it's the player's minutes
        > played so far, this'd be easy to check but I'm rushing
        > through this
        >
        > Z-score: Half of this is easy, a z-score in statistics
        > is the number of standard deviations that you are above
        > or below the mean, an often useful universal way (units
        > of measurement don't matter) of comparing different
        > observations, i.e. players. The more important half
        > though is: the mean of *what*? What is being measured
        > here? It might be the "points" variable, or it might
        > be a rawer +/- measure, or ? Actually, it's probably
        > not "points", see below.
        >
        > PT_wins and ZS_wins: the numbers are far too high
        > to represent z-scores, but might represent some measure
        > of "wins produced" by the player (or by his typical
        > 5-man lineup). I'm guessing one number represents
        > "wins produced" as estimated by "Points" and the other
        > as estimated by z-scores. Again, where these z-scores
        > and offense-defense calculations come from is not clear,
        > except probably from some sort of WinVal calculation.
        >
        > PSalary$, ZSalary$, and Salary$: more mysteries.
        > Presumably some sort of salary calculation (maybe actual
        > salary, maybe "estimated" or "deserved" salary), as
        > calculated using "points" and "z-scores). Why the
        > Salary$ figures are all 0, and what they represent, is
        > a mystery to me.
        >
        > Teamin: presumably team's minutes played, again it'd
        > be easy enough to verify this.
        >
        > Age, Pos Ht: these are clear.
        >
        > Algebra: the biggest mystery to me. And they're in
        > curly brackets. Maybe they represent a "wins produced"
        > calculation that comes more from theoretical algebraic
        > calculations, and which relies less of pure data.
        >
        > +/-: Like z-scores, the general meaning is obvious,
        > but the specific calculation and meaning are unknown.
        >
        >
        > Does Cuban still use WinVal straight from Sagarin and
        > Winston, or has he turned to variations on it?
        >
        >
        > --MKT
      • Dean Oliver
        Can someone repost his info so that the format is clear? I can t even read what s in the columns. DeanO Dean Oliver Consultant to the Seattle Supersonics
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 5, 2005
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          Can someone repost his info so that the format is clear?

          I can't even read what's in the columns.

          DeanO

          Dean Oliver
          Consultant to the Seattle Supersonics
          Author, Basketball on Paper
          http://www.basketballonpaper.com
          "Basketball on Paper is a revolutionary strike for statistical
          analysis of the game of basketball..." Hoopsworld.com's Kevin Pelton


          --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "mrintp2000" <shzys@n...> wrote:
          >
          > I doubt it's PER, but I can't make any sense of his PTS index???
          >
          > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Gabe Farkas <gabefark@y...> wrote:
          > > Has anyone checked out Mr Cuban's latest blog entry:
          > > http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000790025973 ?
          > >
          > > Anyone want to take a crack at deciphering? I'm
          > > guessing that PER (or some permutation of it) is
          > > prominently involved....
          > >
          > > __________________________________________________
          > > Do You Yahoo!?
          > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > > http://mail.yahoo.com
        • Gabe Farkas
          Putting it into NotePad makes it slightly more readable, but I m still struggling with getting it into Excel. A small .txt file is attached... ...
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 5, 2005
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            Putting it into NotePad makes it slightly more
            readable, but I'm still struggling with getting it
            into Excel.

            A small ".txt" file is attached...



            --- Dean Oliver <deano@...> wrote:

            >
            > Can someone repost his info so that the format is
            > clear?
            >
            > I can't even read what's in the columns.
            >
            > DeanO
            >
            > Dean Oliver
            > Consultant to the Seattle Supersonics
            > Author, Basketball on Paper
            > http://www.basketballonpaper.com
            > "Basketball on Paper is a revolutionary strike for
            > statistical
            > analysis of the game of basketball..."
            > Hoopsworld.com's Kevin Pelton
            >
            >
            > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "mrintp2000"
            > <shzys@n...> wrote:
            > >
            > > I doubt it's PER, but I can't make any sense of
            > his PTS index???
            > >
            > > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Gabe Farkas
            > <gabefark@y...> wrote:
            > > > Has anyone checked out Mr Cuban's latest blog
            > entry:
            > > >
            > http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000790025973 ?
            > > >
            > > > Anyone want to take a crack at deciphering? I'm
            > > > guessing that PER (or some permutation of it) is
            > > > prominently involved....
            > > >
            > > >
            > __________________________________________________
            > > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
            > protection around
            > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
            >
            >
            >
            >

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