Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Stats that make you go hmmm...

Expand Messages
  • thedawgsareout
    ... POINTS= OFFENSE-DEFENSE Assumedly, that s how much better the player makes his team s offense when on the court, adjusted for the lineups, and then
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 4, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      > Has anyone checked out Mr Cuban's latest blog entry:
      > http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000790025973 ?

      POINTS= OFFENSE-DEFENSE

      Assumedly, that's how much better the player makes his team's
      offense when on the court, adjusted for the lineups, and then
      defense. As EdO says, Points is the net of those two ratings.

      IMPACT%

      No idea how that's created.

      MINUTES

      Uh, minutes.

      Z-SCORE

      I'm guessing this takes into account the variability of the player's
      ratings, based heavily on his minutes played. It doesn't show much
      here because these guys all play lots of minutes. (I think.)

      PT_WINS

      This assumedly translates the points rating above into wins.

      ZS_WINS

      same but with the Z-score.

      PSALARY$
      ZSALARY$

      Now let's turn those into something really useful - $$$. W&S find
      many of these guys to be worth significantly more than the maximum
      salary. That's interesting. I get different results with my method
      for going to salaries (but it's seriously flawed).

      SALARY$

      Cuban zeroed out the player's actual salary. He's not supposed to
      tell us that.

      TEAMIN AGE POS HT

      Boring

      ALGEBRA

      No idea.

      +/-

      This appears to be good, old-fashioned +/- per 48 minutes. It's
      similar to what Roland is reporting for these players.
    • John Hollinger
      Nope, nothing to do with PER. I think it s related to the same system that told him Hedo Turkoglu was the MVP last year. How long do you suppose it will be
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 4, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Nope, nothing to do with PER. I think it's related to the same system
        that told him Hedo Turkoglu was the MVP last year. How long do you
        suppose it will be before the Mavs sign Mitchell Butler?




        --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Gabe Farkas <gabefark@y...>
        wrote:
        > Has anyone checked out Mr Cuban's latest blog entry:
        > http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000790025973 ?
        >
        > Anyone want to take a crack at deciphering? I'm
        > guessing that PER (or some permutation of it) is
        > prominently involved....
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
      • Michael Tamada
        ... From: Gabe Farkas [mailto:gabefark@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:54 PM ... From his description at the beginning, it sounds a lot more like
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 4, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Gabe Farkas [mailto:gabefark@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:54 PM


          >Has anyone checked out Mr Cuban's latest blog entry:
          >http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000790025973 ?
          >
          >Anyone want to take a crack at deciphering? I'm
          >guessing that PER (or some permutation of it) is
          >prominently involved....

          From his description at the beginning, it sounds a lot
          more like WinVal, or some version of it. But as for
          the actual numbers, besides the points = offense-defense
          calculation already explained, I don't know what's
          going on with the other numbers.

          Some guesses:

          impact%: we know that Sagarin and Winston devalue
          stats accumulated during garbage time, so this might
          be a measure of what percent of a player's minutes
          were non-garbage time, or perhaps an overall measure
          of the non-garbage-ness of his overall minutes.

          Minutes: my first guess is it's the player's minutes
          played so far, this'd be easy to check but I'm rushing
          through this

          Z-score: Half of this is easy, a z-score in statistics
          is the number of standard deviations that you are above
          or below the mean, an often useful universal way (units
          of measurement don't matter) of comparing different
          observations, i.e. players. The more important half
          though is: the mean of *what*? What is being measured
          here? It might be the "points" variable, or it might
          be a rawer +/- measure, or ? Actually, it's probably
          not "points", see below.

          PT_wins and ZS_wins: the numbers are far too high
          to represent z-scores, but might represent some measure
          of "wins produced" by the player (or by his typical
          5-man lineup). I'm guessing one number represents
          "wins produced" as estimated by "Points" and the other
          as estimated by z-scores. Again, where these z-scores
          and offense-defense calculations come from is not clear,
          except probably from some sort of WinVal calculation.

          PSalary$, ZSalary$, and Salary$: more mysteries.
          Presumably some sort of salary calculation (maybe actual
          salary, maybe "estimated" or "deserved" salary), as
          calculated using "points" and "z-scores). Why the
          Salary$ figures are all 0, and what they represent, is
          a mystery to me.

          Teamin: presumably team's minutes played, again it'd
          be easy enough to verify this.

          Age, Pos Ht: these are clear.

          Algebra: the biggest mystery to me. And they're in
          curly brackets. Maybe they represent a "wins produced"
          calculation that comes more from theoretical algebraic
          calculations, and which relies less of pure data.

          +/-: Like z-scores, the general meaning is obvious,
          but the specific calculation and meaning are unknown.


          Does Cuban still use WinVal straight from Sagarin and
          Winston, or has he turned to variations on it?


          --MKT
        • wizardskev
          It might be awhile -- Butler is now an assistant coach with the Wizards.
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 5, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            It might be awhile -- Butler is now an assistant coach with the Wizards.

            --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "John Hollinger"
            <alleyoop2@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Nope, nothing to do with PER. I think it's related to the same system
            > that told him Hedo Turkoglu was the MVP last year. How long do you
            > suppose it will be before the Mavs sign Mitchell Butler?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Gabe Farkas <gabefark@y...>
            > wrote:
            > > Has anyone checked out Mr Cuban's latest blog entry:
            > > http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000790025973 ?
            > >
            > > Anyone want to take a crack at deciphering? I'm
            > > guessing that PER (or some permutation of it) is
            > > prominently involved....
            > >
            > > __________________________________________________
            > > Do You Yahoo!?
            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > > http://mail.yahoo.com
          • wizardskev
            My guess on the salary stuff is that one of those is a kind of raw salary and the other contains some kind of adjustment. That s what I do in my version of a
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 5, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              My guess on the salary stuff is that one of those is a kind of "raw"
              salary and the other contains some kind of adjustment. That's what I
              do in my version of a salary formula.

              --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Tamada" <tamada@o...>
              wrote:
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Gabe Farkas [mailto:gabefark@y...]
              > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:54 PM
              >
              >
              > >Has anyone checked out Mr Cuban's latest blog entry:
              > >http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000790025973 ?
              > >
              > >Anyone want to take a crack at deciphering? I'm
              > >guessing that PER (or some permutation of it) is
              > >prominently involved....
              >
              > From his description at the beginning, it sounds a lot
              > more like WinVal, or some version of it. But as for
              > the actual numbers, besides the points = offense-defense
              > calculation already explained, I don't know what's
              > going on with the other numbers.
              >
              > Some guesses:
              >
              > impact%: we know that Sagarin and Winston devalue
              > stats accumulated during garbage time, so this might
              > be a measure of what percent of a player's minutes
              > were non-garbage time, or perhaps an overall measure
              > of the non-garbage-ness of his overall minutes.
              >
              > Minutes: my first guess is it's the player's minutes
              > played so far, this'd be easy to check but I'm rushing
              > through this
              >
              > Z-score: Half of this is easy, a z-score in statistics
              > is the number of standard deviations that you are above
              > or below the mean, an often useful universal way (units
              > of measurement don't matter) of comparing different
              > observations, i.e. players. The more important half
              > though is: the mean of *what*? What is being measured
              > here? It might be the "points" variable, or it might
              > be a rawer +/- measure, or ? Actually, it's probably
              > not "points", see below.
              >
              > PT_wins and ZS_wins: the numbers are far too high
              > to represent z-scores, but might represent some measure
              > of "wins produced" by the player (or by his typical
              > 5-man lineup). I'm guessing one number represents
              > "wins produced" as estimated by "Points" and the other
              > as estimated by z-scores. Again, where these z-scores
              > and offense-defense calculations come from is not clear,
              > except probably from some sort of WinVal calculation.
              >
              > PSalary$, ZSalary$, and Salary$: more mysteries.
              > Presumably some sort of salary calculation (maybe actual
              > salary, maybe "estimated" or "deserved" salary), as
              > calculated using "points" and "z-scores). Why the
              > Salary$ figures are all 0, and what they represent, is
              > a mystery to me.
              >
              > Teamin: presumably team's minutes played, again it'd
              > be easy enough to verify this.
              >
              > Age, Pos Ht: these are clear.
              >
              > Algebra: the biggest mystery to me. And they're in
              > curly brackets. Maybe they represent a "wins produced"
              > calculation that comes more from theoretical algebraic
              > calculations, and which relies less of pure data.
              >
              > +/-: Like z-scores, the general meaning is obvious,
              > but the specific calculation and meaning are unknown.
              >
              >
              > Does Cuban still use WinVal straight from Sagarin and
              > Winston, or has he turned to variations on it?
              >
              >
              > --MKT
            • Dean Oliver
              Can someone repost his info so that the format is clear? I can t even read what s in the columns. DeanO Dean Oliver Consultant to the Seattle Supersonics
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 5, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Can someone repost his info so that the format is clear?

                I can't even read what's in the columns.

                DeanO

                Dean Oliver
                Consultant to the Seattle Supersonics
                Author, Basketball on Paper
                http://www.basketballonpaper.com
                "Basketball on Paper is a revolutionary strike for statistical
                analysis of the game of basketball..." Hoopsworld.com's Kevin Pelton


                --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "mrintp2000" <shzys@n...> wrote:
                >
                > I doubt it's PER, but I can't make any sense of his PTS index???
                >
                > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Gabe Farkas <gabefark@y...> wrote:
                > > Has anyone checked out Mr Cuban's latest blog entry:
                > > http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000790025973 ?
                > >
                > > Anyone want to take a crack at deciphering? I'm
                > > guessing that PER (or some permutation of it) is
                > > prominently involved....
                > >
                > > __________________________________________________
                > > Do You Yahoo!?
                > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > > http://mail.yahoo.com
              • Gabe Farkas
                Putting it into NotePad makes it slightly more readable, but I m still struggling with getting it into Excel. A small .txt file is attached... ...
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 5, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Putting it into NotePad makes it slightly more
                  readable, but I'm still struggling with getting it
                  into Excel.

                  A small ".txt" file is attached...



                  --- Dean Oliver <deano@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > Can someone repost his info so that the format is
                  > clear?
                  >
                  > I can't even read what's in the columns.
                  >
                  > DeanO
                  >
                  > Dean Oliver
                  > Consultant to the Seattle Supersonics
                  > Author, Basketball on Paper
                  > http://www.basketballonpaper.com
                  > "Basketball on Paper is a revolutionary strike for
                  > statistical
                  > analysis of the game of basketball..."
                  > Hoopsworld.com's Kevin Pelton
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "mrintp2000"
                  > <shzys@n...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I doubt it's PER, but I can't make any sense of
                  > his PTS index???
                  > >
                  > > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Gabe Farkas
                  > <gabefark@y...> wrote:
                  > > > Has anyone checked out Mr Cuban's latest blog
                  > entry:
                  > > >
                  > http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000790025973 ?
                  > > >
                  > > > Anyone want to take a crack at deciphering? I'm
                  > > > guessing that PER (or some permutation of it) is
                  > > > prominently involved....
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                  > protection around
                  > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  http://mail.yahoo.com
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.