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RE: [APBR_analysis] Re: DeanO in the P-I

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  • Michael Tamada
    ... From: Dean Oliver [mailto:deano@rawbw.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 10:51 AM [...] ... One great thing about the Sonics and Suns is that they ve
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
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      -----Original Message-----
      From: Dean Oliver [mailto:deano@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 10:51 AM

      [...]

      >beliefs, is valuable. Giving them tools to improve the players or how
      >to use the players (two different things) -- that's more valuable than
      >overall ratings and that can come from some of what Roland has.

      One great thing about the Sonics and Suns is that they've continued the
      trail set by the Kings and Mavericks, showing that one can have an
      up-tempo, offensively oriented team which is nonetheless a good team.
      (Championship team? That's another matter).

      And the Sonics, if one believes that their roster is not filled with
      a particularly scary amount of talent, have continued the examples
      shown by the Pistons, Argentinian Olympic team, etc. in which team
      play and team effort overcame the seemingly superior individual talent
      level of teams such as the Lakers and USA Olympic team.

      Up-tempo, team-oriented basketball. What a concept.

      [...]

      >get canned often. Success is winning a bit in the playoffs. So we
      >have a lot left to accomplish -- well beyond any regular season win
      >total -- to consider this season a success.

      As I've mentioned on a Sonics email list, this could shape up to be
      the best Sonics season since 1978 -- although the Sonics will at
      a minimum have to make it to the Finals to match that incredible
      Cinderella season. But I think even non-Sonics fans have to
      appreciate what the Sonics and Suns have accomplished so far this
      season. DeanO's right that they really haven't accomplished anything
      yet, the season's only 1/3 over so it's too early to be handing out
      awards, but what a 1/3 of a season it's been. Some positives have
      been going on, to balance out the Pacer-Piston slugfest.


      --MKT
    • John Hollinger
      ... the best Sonics season since 1978 Woooooooooaahhhhh -- didn t they win 64 games with Glove and Rainman? ... how ... than ... the ... team. ... talent ...
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
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        >>>this could shape up to be
        the best Sonics season since 1978

        Woooooooooaahhhhh -- didn't they win 64 games with Glove and Rainman?





        --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Tamada" <tamada@o...>
        wrote:
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Dean Oliver [mailto:deano@r...]
        > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 10:51 AM
        >
        > [...]
        >
        > >beliefs, is valuable. Giving them tools to improve the players or
        how
        > >to use the players (two different things) -- that's more valuable
        than
        > >overall ratings and that can come from some of what Roland has.
        >
        > One great thing about the Sonics and Suns is that they've continued
        the
        > trail set by the Kings and Mavericks, showing that one can have an
        > up-tempo, offensively oriented team which is nonetheless a good
        team.
        > (Championship team? That's another matter).
        >
        > And the Sonics, if one believes that their roster is not filled with
        > a particularly scary amount of talent, have continued the examples
        > shown by the Pistons, Argentinian Olympic team, etc. in which team
        > play and team effort overcame the seemingly superior individual
        talent
        > level of teams such as the Lakers and USA Olympic team.
        >
        > Up-tempo, team-oriented basketball. What a concept.
        >
        > [...]
        >
        > >get canned often. Success is winning a bit in the playoffs. So we
        > >have a lot left to accomplish -- well beyond any regular season win
        > >total -- to consider this season a success.
        >
        > As I've mentioned on a Sonics email list, this could shape up to be
        > the best Sonics season since 1978 -- although the Sonics will at
        > a minimum have to make it to the Finals to match that incredible
        > Cinderella season. But I think even non-Sonics fans have to
        > appreciate what the Sonics and Suns have accomplished so far this
        > season. DeanO's right that they really haven't accomplished
        anything
        > yet, the season's only 1/3 over so it's too early to be handing out
        > awards, but what a 1/3 of a season it's been. Some positives have
        > been going on, to balance out the Pacer-Piston slugfest.
        >
        >
        > --MKT
      • Michael Tamada
        I should have clarified what I meant by best : not best outcome (1979 clearly beats both 1978 and 1996 in that regard), nor most wins. What I meant was most
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 4, 2005
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          I should have clarified what I meant by "best":
          not best outcome (1979 clearly beats both 1978 and 1996 in
          that regard), nor most wins.

          What I meant was "most incredible", "most enjoyable",
          "most memorable" ... along those lines.

          1978 beats both 1979 and 1996 because the Sonics literally
          came out of nowhere to make it all the way to Game 7 of
          the Finals.

          By 1996, the Sonics were a regular 60-game winner. In 1979,
          they were a repeat finalist; everyone knew they were good.

          But in 1978, the Sonics were coming off a chaotic, mediocre
          season (which was both a cause and an effect of Bill Russell's
          resignation), and they started the season a miserable 5-17.
          A mediocre team fraying into disarry.

          Lenny Wilkens stepped in as head coach (after Bob Hopkins
          was fired), replaced almost the entire starting lineup
          (Slick Watts, Fred Brown, Paul Silas, Bruce Seals) with
          a cast of then unknowns (Gus Williams, Dennis Johnson,
          John Johnson, rookie Jack Sikma) and the Sonics went on
          to win 70% of their remaining games and make it all the
          way to the Finals, the first time a Seattle major pro
          sports team had ever advanced so far (unless you count
          the 1977 Sounders making it to the Soccer Bowl as a major
          pro team).

          The word "Cinderella team" doesn't even begin to describe
          that 1978 Sonics squad. Has there ever been such a sharp
          mid-season turnaround in NBA history?

          That's what makes the 1978 season "best", better by far
          than 1996 or even 1979, not in terms of outcome, but in
          terms of a team exceeding expectations, and also making
          a historic (by Seattle standards) achievement by making
          it to the Finals.

          This 2005 Sonics team did not have the burden of a 5-17
          start, just an 0-1 shellacking by the Clippers (almost
          as embarassing). But pre-season, they probably had
          even lower expectations than the 1978 team did in
          pre-season, so if they do make it to the Finals, with
          an excellent won-loss record, they'll have matched
          the 1978 team, IMO, in terms of exceeding expectations.


          --MKT


          -----Original Message-----
          From: John Hollinger [mailto:alleyoop2@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 4:52 PM
          To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [APBR_analysis] Re: DeanO in the P-I




          >>>this could shape up to be
          the best Sonics season since 1978

          Woooooooooaahhhhh -- didn't they win 64 games with Glove and Rainman?





          --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Tamada" <tamada@o...>
          wrote:
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Dean Oliver [mailto:deano@r...]
          > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 10:51 AM
          >
          > [...]
          >
          > >beliefs, is valuable. Giving them tools to improve the players or
          how
          > >to use the players (two different things) -- that's more valuable
          than
          > >overall ratings and that can come from some of what Roland has.
          >
          > One great thing about the Sonics and Suns is that they've continued
          the
          > trail set by the Kings and Mavericks, showing that one can have an
          > up-tempo, offensively oriented team which is nonetheless a good
          team.
          > (Championship team? That's another matter).
          >
          > And the Sonics, if one believes that their roster is not filled with
          > a particularly scary amount of talent, have continued the examples
          > shown by the Pistons, Argentinian Olympic team, etc. in which team
          > play and team effort overcame the seemingly superior individual
          talent
          > level of teams such as the Lakers and USA Olympic team.
          >
          > Up-tempo, team-oriented basketball. What a concept.
          >
          > [...]
          >
          > >get canned often. Success is winning a bit in the playoffs. So we
          > >have a lot left to accomplish -- well beyond any regular season win
          > >total -- to consider this season a success.
          >
          > As I've mentioned on a Sonics email list, this could shape up to be
          > the best Sonics season since 1978 -- although the Sonics will at
          > a minimum have to make it to the Finals to match that incredible
          > Cinderella season. But I think even non-Sonics fans have to
          > appreciate what the Sonics and Suns have accomplished so far this
          > season. DeanO's right that they really haven't accomplished
          anything
          > yet, the season's only 1/3 over so it's too early to be handing out
          > awards, but what a 1/3 of a season it's been. Some positives have
          > been going on, to balance out the Pacer-Piston slugfest.
          >
          >
          > --MKT






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