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Re: [APBR_analysis] charges taken?

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  • Gary Collard
    ... I ll put in a guess for Derek Fisher, especially on a per-minute basis. He may be the best I have ever seen at doing it, I suppose due to great footwork
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 3, 2005
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      APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      >
      > Message: 3
      > Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:30:42 -0500
      > From: igor eduardo küpfer <edkupfer@...>
      > Subject: Re: charges taken?
      >
      > Gabe Farkas wrote:
      > > Hi,
      > >
      > > Does anyone have any info or records of charges taken,
      > > in any form?
      > >
      > > Either composite (total for the year, per game, etc),
      > > or individual would be great!
      > >
      > > You can't really find it in box scores, but it's
      > > something that I want to look into more.
      > >
      > > Thanks!
      >
      > I'd like to see that too. I don't think those numbers exist on the web, but
      > I'm going to hazard a guess that Mo Peterson has led the league over the
      > last 2 or 3 years.

      I'll put in a guess for Derek Fisher, especially on a per-minute basis. He
      may be the best I have ever seen at doing it, I suppose due to great
      footwork and being fearless. Unfortunately for him, his overall defensive
      rep suffers somewhat from what it should be because he was the frequent
      victim of Shaq's failure to show on the screen roll, forcing the guard to
      go under the screen and leaving countless open jumpers for the lucky
      shooter.

      --
      Gary Collard
      SABR-L Moderator
      gmcollard@...

      "All things considered, we're happy to be entering a new year, which,
      according to our calculations, will be 2005 (although the exit polls
      say it will be 1997)." -- Dave Barry
    • thedawgsareout
      ... I assume you re referring to the _Harvey Pollack NBA Statistical Yearbook_? In that case, I don t think he does. Most of Pollack s stuff comes from
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 3, 2005
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        > I think the Philly stats guy tracks and reports some of those
        > stats in the annual team book.

        I assume you're referring to the _Harvey Pollack NBA Statistical
        Yearbook_? In that case, I don't think he does. Most of Pollack's
        stuff comes from detailed play-by-plays, which still don't list
        drawn charges. But I don't remember everything that's in there;
        there's a lot.

        > I also feel like the Nugs had a page listing their personal charge
        > stats two years ago but it is sort of team by team hit and miss.

        http://www.nba.com/nuggets/news/notes.pdf

        Note that Carmelo Anthony is still looking to draw his first charge
        this season (c'mon Michael Cooper!).

        I'll throw another vote towards Derek Fisher, though I tend to
        regard the ability to draw charges as a necessary evil and not so
        much a "skill".

        Desmond Mason is another strong candidate who I don't recall being
        mentioned.
      • Gabe Farkas
        I really have a tough time believing that the Nuggets track it but no one else does... ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Send holiday email
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 4, 2005
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          I really have a tough time believing that the Nuggets
          track it but no one else does...


          --- thedawgsareout <kpelton08@...> wrote:

          >
          > > I think the Philly stats guy tracks and reports
          > some of those
          > > stats in the annual team book.
          >
          > I assume you're referring to the _Harvey Pollack NBA
          > Statistical
          > Yearbook_? In that case, I don't think he does. Most
          > of Pollack's
          > stuff comes from detailed play-by-plays, which still
          > don't list
          > drawn charges. But I don't remember everything
          > that's in there;
          > there's a lot.
          >
          > > I also feel like the Nugs had a page listing their
          > personal charge
          > > stats two years ago but it is sort of team by team
          > hit and miss.
          >
          > http://www.nba.com/nuggets/news/notes.pdf
          >
          > Note that Carmelo Anthony is still looking to draw
          > his first charge
          > this season (c'mon Michael Cooper!).
          >
          > I'll throw another vote towards Derek Fisher, though
          > I tend to
          > regard the ability to draw charges as a necessary
          > evil and not so
          > much a "skill".
          >
          > Desmond Mason is another strong candidate who I
          > don't recall being
          > mentioned.
          >
          >
          >
          >




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        • thedawgsareout
          ... What teams track and what they give to the media are two very different things.
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 4, 2005
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            > I really have a tough time believing that the Nuggets
            > track it but no one else does...

            What teams track and what they give to the media are two very
            different things.
          • rbellotti@comcast.net
            Some teams track this stat and some do not. One reason I ve heard from those who do not is that there aren t enough charges taken to warrant keeping track of
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 4, 2005
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              Some teams track this stat and some do not. One reason I've heard from those who do not is that there aren't enough charges taken to warrant keeping track of it.
               
              Not a bad point; my guess is there are 2 to 3 charges taken per game per team.
               
              And the previous responder is correct: some statistical information is not released by teams because (they believe) it gives them a competitive advantage over other teams and player agents.
               
              -------------- Original message --------------

              > I really have a tough time believing that the Nuggets
              > track it but no one else does...

              What teams track and what they give to the media are two very
              different things.



            • McKibbin, Stuart
              My vote would go to someone on the Utah Jazz. They led the league in offensive fouls drawn by a good margin last year; according to 82games they drew 287 and I
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 4, 2005
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                My vote would go to someone on the Utah Jazz. They led the league in
                offensive fouls drawn by a good margin last year; according to 82games they
                drew 287 and I think the next best was Milwaukee with 208, so the odds would
                favor one of the Jazz players. Fisher still may be the one, but he gets the
                notoriety because all his games seem like they were on national TV.

                Best Wishes,
                Stuart

                -----Original Message-----
                From: kpelton08@...
                Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 11:23 PM
                To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com; kpelton08@...
                Subject: [APBR_analysis] Re: charges taken?

                I'll throw another vote towards Derek Fisher, though I tend to
                regard the ability to draw charges as a necessary evil and not so
                much a "skill".

                Desmond Mason is another strong candidate who I don't recall being
                mentioned.
              • John Hollinger
                From what I ve gathered the Nuggets are especially manic about charges, it was a pet thing of Bzdelik s. Not sure if Coop will keep it up or not.
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 4, 2005
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                  From what I've gathered the Nuggets are especially manic about
                  charges, it was a pet thing of Bzdelik's. Not sure if Coop will keep
                  it up or not.

                  --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Gabe Farkas <gabefark@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > I really have a tough time believing that the Nuggets
                  > track it but no one else does...
                  >
                  >
                  > --- thedawgsareout <kpelton08@h...> wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > > > I think the Philly stats guy tracks and reports
                  > > some of those
                  > > > stats in the annual team book.
                  > >
                  > > I assume you're referring to the _Harvey Pollack NBA
                  > > Statistical
                  > > Yearbook_? In that case, I don't think he does. Most
                  > > of Pollack's
                  > > stuff comes from detailed play-by-plays, which still
                  > > don't list
                  > > drawn charges. But I don't remember everything
                  > > that's in there;
                  > > there's a lot.
                  > >
                  > > > I also feel like the Nugs had a page listing their
                  > > personal charge
                  > > > stats two years ago but it is sort of team by team
                  > > hit and miss.
                  > >
                  > > http://www.nba.com/nuggets/news/notes.pdf
                  > >
                  > > Note that Carmelo Anthony is still looking to draw
                  > > his first charge
                  > > this season (c'mon Michael Cooper!).
                  > >
                  > > I'll throw another vote towards Derek Fisher, though
                  > > I tend to
                  > > regard the ability to draw charges as a necessary
                  > > evil and not so
                  > > much a "skill".
                  > >
                  > > Desmond Mason is another strong candidate who I
                  > > don't recall being
                  > > mentioned.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________
                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. Do good.
                  > http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com
                • John Hollinger
                  Actually, I think a lot of those were illegal screens, push-offs and the like rather than charges. The Jazz play human pinball and clutch and grab all the
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 4, 2005
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                    Actually, I think a lot of those were illegal screens, push-offs and
                    the like rather than charges. The Jazz play human pinball and clutch
                    and grab all the time, which tends to produce massive foul totals on
                    both sides.



                    --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "McKibbin, Stuart"
                    <smckibbi@c...> wrote:
                    > My vote would go to someone on the Utah Jazz. They led the league in
                    > offensive fouls drawn by a good margin last year; according to
                    82games they
                    > drew 287 and I think the next best was Milwaukee with 208, so the
                    odds would
                    > favor one of the Jazz players. Fisher still may be the one, but he
                    gets the
                    > notoriety because all his games seem like they were on national TV.
                    >
                    > Best Wishes,
                    > Stuart
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: kpelton08@h...
                    > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 11:23 PM
                    > To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com; kpelton08@h...
                    > Subject: [APBR_analysis] Re: charges taken?
                    >
                    > I'll throw another vote towards Derek Fisher, though I tend to
                    > regard the ability to draw charges as a necessary evil and not so
                    > much a "skill".
                    >
                    > Desmond Mason is another strong candidate who I don't recall being
                    > mentioned.
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