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Re: [APBR_analysis] Re: Phoenix Suns

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  • Coach McCormick
    Nash is shooting 50+% from the floor and leading the league in assists. Plus, he provides veteran leadership to a team that is otherwise a bunch of kids and he
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 2, 2004
      Nash is shooting 50+% from the floor and leading the league in assists. Plus, he provides veteran leadership to a team that is otherwise a bunch of kids and he pushes the ball like no other: despite Nowitski's play, Dallas' scoring is down 8 PPG from last season.

      Mike G <msg_53@...> wrote:

      --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "monepeterson" <mone@s...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Curious what the thought was on the Suns hot start so far. What are
      > the differences so far in how they're playing this year as opposed
      to
      > last year. Is Nash having any quantifiable effect?

      Short answer: Amare is about twice the player he was last year.  His
      inside presence covers for the team's lack of a center.  Nash's
      offensive Presence covers for his lack of defense.

      They don't look very deep, though.  Good starting 5; nothing behind
      them.





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    • John Hollinger
      Nash, Marion and Stoudemire all are playing well above their career norms. Nash and Marion can probably be expected to regress a little since they re
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 3, 2004
        Nash, Marion and Stoudemire all are playing well above their career
        norms. Nash and Marion can probably be expected to regress a little
        since they're mid-career players. For Stoudemire, this just looks to
        me like his natural evolution into the next Karl Malone.

        I should point out that Quentin Richardson has been significantly
        BELOW his averages thus far, so he could make up some of the
        inevitable Nash/Marion decline. Big issue for Phoenix is what happens
        if anybody gets hurt, because the bench is awful. That's what killed
        them last year.



        --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Coach McCormick
        <highfivehoopschool@y...> wrote:
        > Nash is shooting 50+% from the floor and leading the league in
        assists. Plus, he provides veteran leadership to a team that is
        otherwise a bunch of kids and he pushes the ball like no other:
        despite Nowitski's play, Dallas' scoring is down 8 PPG from last
        season.
        >
        > Mike G <msg_53@h...> wrote:
        > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "monepeterson" <mone@s...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Curious what the thought was on the Suns hot start so far. What
        are
        > > the differences so far in how they're playing this year as
        opposed
        > to
        > > last year. Is Nash having any quantifiable effect?
        >
        > Short answer: Amare is about twice the player he was last year.
        His
        > inside presence covers for the team's lack of a center. Nash's
        > offensive Presence covers for his lack of defense.
        >
        > They don't look very deep, though. Good starting 5; nothing behind
        > them.
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • Mike G
        ... career ... little ... Marion should still improve at his age. Last couple of years he kind of stalled out at sub-allstar level. The doldrums, between
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 4, 2004
          --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "John Hollinger"
          <alleyoop2@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Nash, Marion and Stoudemire all are playing well above their
          career
          > norms. Nash and Marion can probably be expected to regress a
          little
          > since they're mid-career players.

          Marion should still improve at his age. Last couple of years he
          kind of stalled out at sub-allstar level. The doldrums, between
          Kidd and Nash.


          > For Stoudemire, this just looks to
          > me like his natural evolution into the next Karl Malone.

          He doesn't rebound like the Mailman, though. The Suns have no
          center; their SF Marion is their top rebounder.

          Stoud and Nash have pretty much unthinkable shooting % going so
          far. They're sure to drop off some.


          On the subject of Rest: Does anyone else think it's not that much
          more stressful to run and gun/dunk, than to play grindball? The
          other team has to run to keep up; and defense gets more tired,
          making your work easier.
        • wimpds
          I m not sure Stoudemire s FG% is sustainable. Nash s almost certainly is not. Ben
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 4, 2004
            I'm not sure Stoudemire's FG% is sustainable. Nash's almost certainly
            is not.

            Ben



            --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "John Hollinger"
            <alleyoop2@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Nash, Marion and Stoudemire all are playing well above their career
            > norms. Nash and Marion can probably be expected to regress a little
            > since they're mid-career players. For Stoudemire, this just looks to
            > me like his natural evolution into the next Karl Malone.
            >
            > I should point out that Quentin Richardson has been significantly
            > BELOW his averages thus far, so he could make up some of the
            > inevitable Nash/Marion decline. Big issue for Phoenix is what happens
            > if anybody gets hurt, because the bench is awful. That's what killed
            > them last year.
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Coach McCormick
            > <highfivehoopschool@y...> wrote:
            > > Nash is shooting 50+% from the floor and leading the league in
            > assists. Plus, he provides veteran leadership to a team that is
            > otherwise a bunch of kids and he pushes the ball like no other:
            > despite Nowitski's play, Dallas' scoring is down 8 PPG from last
            > season.



            > >
            > > Mike G <msg_53@h...> wrote:
            > > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "monepeterson" <mone@s...>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Curious what the thought was on the Suns hot start so far. What
            > are
            > > > the differences so far in how they're playing this year as
            > opposed
            > > to
            > > > last year. Is Nash having any quantifiable effect?
            > >
            > > Short answer: Amare is about twice the player he was last year.
            > His
            > > inside presence covers for the team's lack of a center. Nash's
            > > offensive Presence covers for his lack of defense.
            > >
            > > They don't look very deep, though. Good starting 5; nothing behind
            > > them.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
            > >
            > >
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            > >
            > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/APBR_analysis/
            > >
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            > > APBR_analysis-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
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          • dan_t_rosenbaum
            I think the Phoenix Suns are a perfect case where stats-folks like us can really miss the boat. Last season because of his poor passing and the Sun s poor
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 5, 2004
              I think the Phoenix Suns are a perfect case where stats-folks like
              us can really miss the boat. Last season because of his poor
              passing and the Sun's poor spacing, Stoudemire was very susceptible
              to double teams. This season by surrounding Stoudemire with four
              three point shooters, one being a fabulous passer in Steve Nash, it
              is going to be very costly for teams to double team Stoudemire.
              Throw in the extra fast break baskets and point blank feeds by Nash
              and I think it is very possible that Stoudemire maintains something
              close to his current field goal percentage. And his passing appears
              to be getting better too.

              The Sun's offense with four legitimate three point shooters opens up
              the post for Stoudemire, drives for Nash, and slashes to the basket
              for Johnson, Marion, and Richardson. And this is when teams are
              successful getting the Suns into a half court game. Personally, I
              was a skeptic of the Suns' moves this summer, but I was wrong
              because I did not see how the interactions between these players
              would make them all better.

              (Unfortunately, I was not wise enough to keep this skepticism to
              myself, so I recently ate some humble pie in a correspondence with a
              member of the Suns' front office.)

              And on defense the size, strength, length, and quickness of Marion,
              Richardson, and Johnson make this a very effective trapping team,
              which compensates for Stoudemire and Nash not being great
              defenders. This is a perfect case of the sum being much greater
              than the parts.

              --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "John Hollinger"
              <alleyoop2@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Nash, Marion and Stoudemire all are playing well above their
              career
              > norms. Nash and Marion can probably be expected to regress a
              little
              > since they're mid-career players. For Stoudemire, this just looks
              to
              > me like his natural evolution into the next Karl Malone.
              >
              > I should point out that Quentin Richardson has been significantly
              > BELOW his averages thus far, so he could make up some of the
              > inevitable Nash/Marion decline. Big issue for Phoenix is what
              happens
              > if anybody gets hurt, because the bench is awful. That's what
              killed
              > them last year.
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Coach McCormick
              > <highfivehoopschool@y...> wrote:
              > > Nash is shooting 50+% from the floor and leading the league in
              > assists. Plus, he provides veteran leadership to a team that is
              > otherwise a bunch of kids and he pushes the ball like no other:
              > despite Nowitski's play, Dallas' scoring is down 8 PPG from last
              > season.
              > >
              > > Mike G <msg_53@h...> wrote:
              > > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "monepeterson" <mone@s...>
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Curious what the thought was on the Suns hot start so far.
              What
              > are
              > > > the differences so far in how they're playing this year as
              > opposed
              > > to
              > > > last year. Is Nash having any quantifiable effect?
              > >
              > > Short answer: Amare is about twice the player he was last year.
              > His
              > > inside presence covers for the team's lack of a center. Nash's
              > > offensive Presence covers for his lack of defense.
              > >
              > > They don't look very deep, though. Good starting 5; nothing
              behind
              > > them.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
              > >
              > >
              > > ---------------------------------
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/APBR_analysis/
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > APBR_analysis-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > Service.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
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              > > Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more.
            • thedawgsareout
              ... Dan, while you raise great points about why people like us missed the boat on the Suns and I completely agree, I would point out that a lot of other people
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 10, 2004
                > I think the Phoenix Suns are a perfect case where stats-folks like
                > us can really miss the boat.

                Dan, while you raise great points about why people like us missed
                the boat on the Suns and I completely agree, I would point out that
                a lot of other people missed the boat too.

                I had Phoenix 11th in the West, but basically even with the 9th and
                10th teams.

                NBA.com and _Sports Illustrated_ both had the Suns 10th. Marc Stein
                had them slightly better, eighth. Only Bill Simmons of the previews
                I quickly glanced at had the Suns substantially higher -- fifth.
              • John Hollinger
                One thing I will say about predictions in general: Injuries wreak havoc with them. A team like Phoenix that has had no substantial injuries will almost always
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 10, 2004
                  One thing I will say about predictions in general: Injuries wreak
                  havoc with them. A team like Phoenix that has had no substantial
                  injuries will almost always outperform their expectation, as opposed
                  to a team like, oh, say, New Orleans. The general rule of thumb in
                  the NBA is that at least one starter is injured, and if you're not in
                  that situation you're lucky.

                  It's especially true in the Suns' case. The last two years they've
                  been great when everyone's healthy and pretty weak when somebody's
                  been hurt, because their bench players haven't been up to snuff.



                  --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "thedawgsareout"
                  <kpelton08@h...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > I think the Phoenix Suns are a perfect case where stats-folks
                  like
                  > > us can really miss the boat.
                  >
                  > Dan, while you raise great points about why people like us missed
                  > the boat on the Suns and I completely agree, I would point out that
                  > a lot of other people missed the boat too.
                  >
                  > I had Phoenix 11th in the West, but basically even with the 9th and
                  > 10th teams.
                  >
                  > NBA.com and _Sports Illustrated_ both had the Suns 10th. Marc Stein
                  > had them slightly better, eighth. Only Bill Simmons of the previews
                  > I quickly glanced at had the Suns substantially higher -- fifth.
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