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Phoenix Suns

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  • monepeterson
    Curious what the thought was on the Suns hot start so far. What are the differences so far in how they re playing this year as opposed to last year. Is Nash
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 2, 2004
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      Curious what the thought was on the Suns hot start so far. What are
      the differences so far in how they're playing this year as opposed to
      last year. Is Nash having any quantifiable effect?

      Moné
    • Mike G
      ... to ... Short answer: Amare is about twice the player he was last year. His inside presence covers for the team s lack of a center. Nash s offensive
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 2, 2004
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        --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "monepeterson" <mone@s...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Curious what the thought was on the Suns hot start so far. What are
        > the differences so far in how they're playing this year as opposed
        to
        > last year. Is Nash having any quantifiable effect?

        Short answer: Amare is about twice the player he was last year. His
        inside presence covers for the team's lack of a center. Nash's
        offensive Presence covers for his lack of defense.

        They don't look very deep, though. Good starting 5; nothing behind
        them.
      • Coach McCormick
        Nash is shooting 50+% from the floor and leading the league in assists. Plus, he provides veteran leadership to a team that is otherwise a bunch of kids and he
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 2, 2004
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          Nash is shooting 50+% from the floor and leading the league in assists. Plus, he provides veteran leadership to a team that is otherwise a bunch of kids and he pushes the ball like no other: despite Nowitski's play, Dallas' scoring is down 8 PPG from last season.

          Mike G <msg_53@...> wrote:

          --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "monepeterson" <mone@s...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Curious what the thought was on the Suns hot start so far. What are
          > the differences so far in how they're playing this year as opposed
          to
          > last year. Is Nash having any quantifiable effect?

          Short answer: Amare is about twice the player he was last year.  His
          inside presence covers for the team's lack of a center.  Nash's
          offensive Presence covers for his lack of defense.

          They don't look very deep, though.  Good starting 5; nothing behind
          them.





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        • John Hollinger
          Nash, Marion and Stoudemire all are playing well above their career norms. Nash and Marion can probably be expected to regress a little since they re
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 3, 2004
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            Nash, Marion and Stoudemire all are playing well above their career
            norms. Nash and Marion can probably be expected to regress a little
            since they're mid-career players. For Stoudemire, this just looks to
            me like his natural evolution into the next Karl Malone.

            I should point out that Quentin Richardson has been significantly
            BELOW his averages thus far, so he could make up some of the
            inevitable Nash/Marion decline. Big issue for Phoenix is what happens
            if anybody gets hurt, because the bench is awful. That's what killed
            them last year.



            --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Coach McCormick
            <highfivehoopschool@y...> wrote:
            > Nash is shooting 50+% from the floor and leading the league in
            assists. Plus, he provides veteran leadership to a team that is
            otherwise a bunch of kids and he pushes the ball like no other:
            despite Nowitski's play, Dallas' scoring is down 8 PPG from last
            season.
            >
            > Mike G <msg_53@h...> wrote:
            > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "monepeterson" <mone@s...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Curious what the thought was on the Suns hot start so far. What
            are
            > > the differences so far in how they're playing this year as
            opposed
            > to
            > > last year. Is Nash having any quantifiable effect?
            >
            > Short answer: Amare is about twice the player he was last year.
            His
            > inside presence covers for the team's lack of a center. Nash's
            > offensive Presence covers for his lack of defense.
            >
            > They don't look very deep, though. Good starting 5; nothing behind
            > them.
            >
            >
            >
            >
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          • Mike G
            ... career ... little ... Marion should still improve at his age. Last couple of years he kind of stalled out at sub-allstar level. The doldrums, between
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 4, 2004
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              --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "John Hollinger"
              <alleyoop2@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Nash, Marion and Stoudemire all are playing well above their
              career
              > norms. Nash and Marion can probably be expected to regress a
              little
              > since they're mid-career players.

              Marion should still improve at his age. Last couple of years he
              kind of stalled out at sub-allstar level. The doldrums, between
              Kidd and Nash.


              > For Stoudemire, this just looks to
              > me like his natural evolution into the next Karl Malone.

              He doesn't rebound like the Mailman, though. The Suns have no
              center; their SF Marion is their top rebounder.

              Stoud and Nash have pretty much unthinkable shooting % going so
              far. They're sure to drop off some.


              On the subject of Rest: Does anyone else think it's not that much
              more stressful to run and gun/dunk, than to play grindball? The
              other team has to run to keep up; and defense gets more tired,
              making your work easier.
            • wimpds
              I m not sure Stoudemire s FG% is sustainable. Nash s almost certainly is not. Ben
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 4, 2004
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                I'm not sure Stoudemire's FG% is sustainable. Nash's almost certainly
                is not.

                Ben



                --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "John Hollinger"
                <alleyoop2@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Nash, Marion and Stoudemire all are playing well above their career
                > norms. Nash and Marion can probably be expected to regress a little
                > since they're mid-career players. For Stoudemire, this just looks to
                > me like his natural evolution into the next Karl Malone.
                >
                > I should point out that Quentin Richardson has been significantly
                > BELOW his averages thus far, so he could make up some of the
                > inevitable Nash/Marion decline. Big issue for Phoenix is what happens
                > if anybody gets hurt, because the bench is awful. That's what killed
                > them last year.
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Coach McCormick
                > <highfivehoopschool@y...> wrote:
                > > Nash is shooting 50+% from the floor and leading the league in
                > assists. Plus, he provides veteran leadership to a team that is
                > otherwise a bunch of kids and he pushes the ball like no other:
                > despite Nowitski's play, Dallas' scoring is down 8 PPG from last
                > season.



                > >
                > > Mike G <msg_53@h...> wrote:
                > > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "monepeterson" <mone@s...>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Curious what the thought was on the Suns hot start so far. What
                > are
                > > > the differences so far in how they're playing this year as
                > opposed
                > > to
                > > > last year. Is Nash having any quantifiable effect?
                > >
                > > Short answer: Amare is about twice the player he was last year.
                > His
                > > inside presence covers for the team's lack of a center. Nash's
                > > offensive Presence covers for his lack of defense.
                > >
                > > They don't look very deep, though. Good starting 5; nothing behind
                > > them.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                > >
                > >
                > > ---------------------------------
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/APBR_analysis/
                > >
                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > APBR_analysis-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                > Service.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
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              • dan_t_rosenbaum
                I think the Phoenix Suns are a perfect case where stats-folks like us can really miss the boat. Last season because of his poor passing and the Sun s poor
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 5, 2004
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                  I think the Phoenix Suns are a perfect case where stats-folks like
                  us can really miss the boat. Last season because of his poor
                  passing and the Sun's poor spacing, Stoudemire was very susceptible
                  to double teams. This season by surrounding Stoudemire with four
                  three point shooters, one being a fabulous passer in Steve Nash, it
                  is going to be very costly for teams to double team Stoudemire.
                  Throw in the extra fast break baskets and point blank feeds by Nash
                  and I think it is very possible that Stoudemire maintains something
                  close to his current field goal percentage. And his passing appears
                  to be getting better too.

                  The Sun's offense with four legitimate three point shooters opens up
                  the post for Stoudemire, drives for Nash, and slashes to the basket
                  for Johnson, Marion, and Richardson. And this is when teams are
                  successful getting the Suns into a half court game. Personally, I
                  was a skeptic of the Suns' moves this summer, but I was wrong
                  because I did not see how the interactions between these players
                  would make them all better.

                  (Unfortunately, I was not wise enough to keep this skepticism to
                  myself, so I recently ate some humble pie in a correspondence with a
                  member of the Suns' front office.)

                  And on defense the size, strength, length, and quickness of Marion,
                  Richardson, and Johnson make this a very effective trapping team,
                  which compensates for Stoudemire and Nash not being great
                  defenders. This is a perfect case of the sum being much greater
                  than the parts.

                  --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "John Hollinger"
                  <alleyoop2@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Nash, Marion and Stoudemire all are playing well above their
                  career
                  > norms. Nash and Marion can probably be expected to regress a
                  little
                  > since they're mid-career players. For Stoudemire, this just looks
                  to
                  > me like his natural evolution into the next Karl Malone.
                  >
                  > I should point out that Quentin Richardson has been significantly
                  > BELOW his averages thus far, so he could make up some of the
                  > inevitable Nash/Marion decline. Big issue for Phoenix is what
                  happens
                  > if anybody gets hurt, because the bench is awful. That's what
                  killed
                  > them last year.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Coach McCormick
                  > <highfivehoopschool@y...> wrote:
                  > > Nash is shooting 50+% from the floor and leading the league in
                  > assists. Plus, he provides veteran leadership to a team that is
                  > otherwise a bunch of kids and he pushes the ball like no other:
                  > despite Nowitski's play, Dallas' scoring is down 8 PPG from last
                  > season.
                  > >
                  > > Mike G <msg_53@h...> wrote:
                  > > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "monepeterson" <mone@s...>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Curious what the thought was on the Suns hot start so far.
                  What
                  > are
                  > > > the differences so far in how they're playing this year as
                  > opposed
                  > > to
                  > > > last year. Is Nash having any quantifiable effect?
                  > >
                  > > Short answer: Amare is about twice the player he was last year.
                  > His
                  > > inside presence covers for the team's lack of a center. Nash's
                  > > offensive Presence covers for his lack of defense.
                  > >
                  > > They don't look very deep, though. Good starting 5; nothing
                  behind
                  > > them.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ---------------------------------
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/APBR_analysis/
                  > >
                  > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > > APBR_analysis-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  > Service.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ---------------------------------
                  > > Do you Yahoo!?
                  > > Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more.
                • thedawgsareout
                  ... Dan, while you raise great points about why people like us missed the boat on the Suns and I completely agree, I would point out that a lot of other people
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 10, 2004
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                    > I think the Phoenix Suns are a perfect case where stats-folks like
                    > us can really miss the boat.

                    Dan, while you raise great points about why people like us missed
                    the boat on the Suns and I completely agree, I would point out that
                    a lot of other people missed the boat too.

                    I had Phoenix 11th in the West, but basically even with the 9th and
                    10th teams.

                    NBA.com and _Sports Illustrated_ both had the Suns 10th. Marc Stein
                    had them slightly better, eighth. Only Bill Simmons of the previews
                    I quickly glanced at had the Suns substantially higher -- fifth.
                  • John Hollinger
                    One thing I will say about predictions in general: Injuries wreak havoc with them. A team like Phoenix that has had no substantial injuries will almost always
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 10, 2004
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                      One thing I will say about predictions in general: Injuries wreak
                      havoc with them. A team like Phoenix that has had no substantial
                      injuries will almost always outperform their expectation, as opposed
                      to a team like, oh, say, New Orleans. The general rule of thumb in
                      the NBA is that at least one starter is injured, and if you're not in
                      that situation you're lucky.

                      It's especially true in the Suns' case. The last two years they've
                      been great when everyone's healthy and pretty weak when somebody's
                      been hurt, because their bench players haven't been up to snuff.



                      --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "thedawgsareout"
                      <kpelton08@h...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > I think the Phoenix Suns are a perfect case where stats-folks
                      like
                      > > us can really miss the boat.
                      >
                      > Dan, while you raise great points about why people like us missed
                      > the boat on the Suns and I completely agree, I would point out that
                      > a lot of other people missed the boat too.
                      >
                      > I had Phoenix 11th in the West, but basically even with the 9th and
                      > 10th teams.
                      >
                      > NBA.com and _Sports Illustrated_ both had the Suns 10th. Marc Stein
                      > had them slightly better, eighth. Only Bill Simmons of the previews
                      > I quickly glanced at had the Suns substantially higher -- fifth.
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