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Re: How did the Bucks win?

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  • Dean Oliver
    ... court - ... I d still call him quite good. As DanR has pointed out, there is a lot of noise in some of these data. My methods have the ability to
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 2, 2004
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      > >Is Michael Redd really that good, along with Desmond?
      >
      > Well - considering the team played MUCH better when Redd was off the
      court -
      > I don't think we can call him "that good" yet.

      I'd still call him quite good. As DanR has pointed out, there is a
      lot of noise in some of these data. My methods have the ability to
      incorporate Roland's data into them and those data can make a
      difference. With Redd, they lower his win-loss record from 10.3-4.1
      to 9.4-5.0. One game of difference is a reasonable sized difference,
      but he is still a good player.

      The benefit of the method for incorporating context is that it reduces
      noise that is in the data and still gives credit for what the
      individual did to cause some of that team problem. It may miss things
      like picks on the offensive end, but it does account for defensive
      stuff quite well (Redd's defense takes a hit here, whereas his offense
      stays about the same).

      >
      > Now with Mason - the team played much better with him on the court. He
      > seemed to make the biggest positive influence on the team of any
      regular
      > player. Plus he was better than average in PER and PER differential.

      His individual win-loss record goes from 5.5-4.5 to 5.8-4.2, still an
      average player.

      DeanO

      Dean Oliver
      Author, Basketball on Paper
      http://www.basketballonpaper.com
      "Oliver goes beyond stats to dissect what it takes to win. His breezy
      style makes for enjoyable reading, but there are plenty of points of
      wisdom as well. This book can be appreciated by fans, players,
      coaches and executives, but more importantly it can be used as a text
      book for all these groups. You are sure to learn something you didn't
      know about basketball here." Pete Palmer, co-author, Hidden Game of
      Baseball and Hidden Game of Football
    • nickouli5
      Whats weird is that most of the NBA elite are barely capable of getting 45 wins being the ONLY player on their team. And we are talking about very good
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 3, 2004
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        Whats weird is that most of the NBA elite are barely capable of
        getting 45 wins being the ONLY player on their team. And we are
        talking about very good players, the ELITE of the league. Guys like
        Duncan, Shaq and KG. Guys who can win 45 games by themselves
        probably.

        Its just when I see a team like the Bucks win 41 games I wonder how
        they get it done. Jordan alone with poor support couldn't win much
        more than 41, why can Michael Redd do the same?
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