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Re: Update to Tendex with Forced Misses and Forced TO's

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  • dlirag
    In that case, I d expect people to value forced TO s as much as they do steals. A few, though, might say that a steal has more fast break potential than most
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 2, 2002
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      In that case, I'd expect people to value forced TO's as much as they
      do steals. A few, though, might say that a steal has more fast break
      potential than most kinds of forced TO's, making forced TO's slightly
      less valuable than steals. Forcing a miss might be roughly as good as
      blocking a shot, but I'm not sure about this one. I think people will
      agree more about the similar value of steals and forced TO's than
      they will about blocks and forced misses. As for how these things
      would be factored, I agree that they will be added on to most Tendex
      formulas in a straightforward manner. Doug Steele might do a little
      more with them, though, considering that he has four types of Tendex
      equations.

      --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "HoopStudies" <deano@r...> wrote:
      >
      > If we started collecting forced misses and forced turnovers by
      > players in addition to blocks and steals, how would the standard
      > tendex formula be updated? Would they simply be added on? That
      > seems like the logical thing to me. Any other ideas?
      >
      > If I managed to get that info for last year, I'd be curious how it
      > would change the rankings of players.
      >
      > Dean Oliver
      > Journal of Basketball Studies
    • mikel_ind
      Missed shots and missed shot opportunities, from defensive pressure of all kinds, can be factored into any player s production rating, by taking the ratio of
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 2, 2002
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        Missed shots and missed shot opportunities, from defensive pressure
        of all kinds, can be factored into any player's production rating, by
        taking the ratio of his team's points allowed and a historic average
        (or any other arbitrary standard).


        --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "dlirag" <dlirag@h...> wrote:
        > In that case, I'd expect people to value forced TO's as much as
        they
        > do steals. A few, though, might say that a steal has more fast
        break
        > potential than most kinds of forced TO's, making forced TO's
        slightly
        > less valuable than steals. Forcing a miss might be roughly as good
        as
        > blocking a shot, but I'm not sure about this one. I think people
        will
        > agree more about the similar value of steals and forced TO's than
        > they will about blocks and forced misses. As for how these things
        > would be factored, I agree that they will be added on to most
        Tendex
        > formulas in a straightforward manner. Doug Steele might do a little
        > more with them, though, considering that he has four types of
        Tendex
        > equations.
        >
        > --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "HoopStudies" <deano@r...> wrote:
        > >
        > > If we started collecting forced misses and forced turnovers by
        > > players in addition to blocks and steals, how would the standard
        > > tendex formula be updated? Would they simply be added on? That
        > > seems like the logical thing to me. Any other ideas?
        > >
        > > If I managed to get that info for last year, I'd be curious how
        it
        > > would change the rankings of players.
        > >
        > > Dean Oliver
        > > Journal of Basketball Studies

        I still don't know what 'standard Tendex' is, but I do have to wonder
        how one could possibly collect 'forced misses and forced turnovers',
        and particularly I doubt these quantities could be assigned to
        individuals.
        Rather, the team defensive strength just naturally contains these
        features, and is reflected quite readily in 'points-per-game allowed'.

        When your team manages to allow only 90% of a given standard of
        points allowed, your own scoring should be factored by 100/90,
        relative to that standard.

        Mike Goodman
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