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Update to Tendex with Forced Misses and Forced TO's

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  • HoopStudies
    If we started collecting forced misses and forced turnovers by players in addition to blocks and steals, how would the standard tendex formula be updated?
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 27, 2001
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      If we started collecting forced misses and forced turnovers by
      players in addition to blocks and steals, how would the standard
      tendex formula be updated? Would they simply be added on? That
      seems like the logical thing to me. Any other ideas?

      If I managed to get that info for last year, I'd be curious how it
      would change the rankings of players.

      Dean Oliver
      Journal of Basketball Studies
    • dlirag
      In that case, I d expect people to value forced TO s as much as they do steals. A few, though, might say that a steal has more fast break potential than most
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 2, 2002
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        In that case, I'd expect people to value forced TO's as much as they
        do steals. A few, though, might say that a steal has more fast break
        potential than most kinds of forced TO's, making forced TO's slightly
        less valuable than steals. Forcing a miss might be roughly as good as
        blocking a shot, but I'm not sure about this one. I think people will
        agree more about the similar value of steals and forced TO's than
        they will about blocks and forced misses. As for how these things
        would be factored, I agree that they will be added on to most Tendex
        formulas in a straightforward manner. Doug Steele might do a little
        more with them, though, considering that he has four types of Tendex
        equations.

        --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "HoopStudies" <deano@r...> wrote:
        >
        > If we started collecting forced misses and forced turnovers by
        > players in addition to blocks and steals, how would the standard
        > tendex formula be updated? Would they simply be added on? That
        > seems like the logical thing to me. Any other ideas?
        >
        > If I managed to get that info for last year, I'd be curious how it
        > would change the rankings of players.
        >
        > Dean Oliver
        > Journal of Basketball Studies
      • mikel_ind
        Missed shots and missed shot opportunities, from defensive pressure of all kinds, can be factored into any player s production rating, by taking the ratio of
        Message 3 of 3 , Jan 2, 2002
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          Missed shots and missed shot opportunities, from defensive pressure
          of all kinds, can be factored into any player's production rating, by
          taking the ratio of his team's points allowed and a historic average
          (or any other arbitrary standard).


          --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "dlirag" <dlirag@h...> wrote:
          > In that case, I'd expect people to value forced TO's as much as
          they
          > do steals. A few, though, might say that a steal has more fast
          break
          > potential than most kinds of forced TO's, making forced TO's
          slightly
          > less valuable than steals. Forcing a miss might be roughly as good
          as
          > blocking a shot, but I'm not sure about this one. I think people
          will
          > agree more about the similar value of steals and forced TO's than
          > they will about blocks and forced misses. As for how these things
          > would be factored, I agree that they will be added on to most
          Tendex
          > formulas in a straightforward manner. Doug Steele might do a little
          > more with them, though, considering that he has four types of
          Tendex
          > equations.
          >
          > --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "HoopStudies" <deano@r...> wrote:
          > >
          > > If we started collecting forced misses and forced turnovers by
          > > players in addition to blocks and steals, how would the standard
          > > tendex formula be updated? Would they simply be added on? That
          > > seems like the logical thing to me. Any other ideas?
          > >
          > > If I managed to get that info for last year, I'd be curious how
          it
          > > would change the rankings of players.
          > >
          > > Dean Oliver
          > > Journal of Basketball Studies

          I still don't know what 'standard Tendex' is, but I do have to wonder
          how one could possibly collect 'forced misses and forced turnovers',
          and particularly I doubt these quantities could be assigned to
          individuals.
          Rather, the team defensive strength just naturally contains these
          features, and is reflected quite readily in 'points-per-game allowed'.

          When your team manages to allow only 90% of a given standard of
          points allowed, your own scoring should be factored by 100/90,
          relative to that standard.

          Mike Goodman
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