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Re: Kidd v. KJ and comparing eras

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  • Dean Oliver
    ... Very opposite. I really will have to work to dig up their numbers. I m still accumulating old data through a source with the league. The Group database
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 8 2:39 PM
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      --- In APBR_analysis@y..., Robert Bradley <bradleyrd13@y...> wrote:

      > Now who's better - Paul Westphal or Dennis Johnson? Talk about
      > complete opposites....
      >

      Very opposite. I really will have to work to dig up their numbers.
      I'm still accumulating old data through a source with the league. The
      Group database that we started with APBR has very incomplete
      individual turnover data and that's what my source is getting for me.
      For just these two players, I can hand enter the info, but it's a
      total of about 3200 man-seasons of individual turnovers I'm missing.

      I always respected Johnson's game more than Westphal's. But, frankly,
      I was pretty young when Westphal was in his heyday. And my judgment
      is somewhat clouded by my general disdain for Westphal's coaching
      style. I'll run the numbers soon.

      Dean Oliver
      Journal of Basketball Studies.
    • msg_53@hotmail.com
      ... For their careers: Westphal: sco 20.8, reb 2.5, ast 5.6, stl 1.7, TO 3.2, blk .4 DJohnson: 14.4 4.3 5.2 1.5 2.6 .7 regular
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 8 4:07 PM
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        --- In APBR_analysis@y..., Robert Bradley <bradleyrd13@y...> wrote:
        > Now who's better - Paul Westphal or Dennis Johnson? Talk about
        > complete opposites....
        >
        For their careers:
        Westphal: sco 20.8, reb 2.5, ast 5.6, stl 1.7, TO 3.2, blk .4
        DJohnson: 14.4 4.3 5.2 1.5 2.6 .7

        regular season totals: Westphal 29.9, DJ 25.4
        playoff totals: Westphal 25.8, DJ 25.7

        Westphal was the more skilled player in general.
        Dennis Johnson played better under pressure and against greater
        competition.

        I rate DJ #66 alltime, Westphal #120
        >
        >
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      • Robert Bradley
        ... Johnson of course enjoyed a much longer period of productivity and was far superior defensively, Westphal was as good offensively as Maravich an Gervin in
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 8 4:31 PM
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          > For their careers:
          > Westphal: sco 20.8, reb 2.5, ast 5.6, stl 1.7, TO 3.2, blk .4
          > DJohnson: 14.4 4.3 5.2 1.5 2.6 .7
          >
          > regular season totals: Westphal 29.9, DJ 25.4
          > playoff totals: Westphal 25.8, DJ 25.7
          >
          > Westphal was the more skilled player in general.
          > Dennis Johnson played better under pressure and against greater
          > competition.
          >
          > I rate DJ #66 alltime, Westphal #120

          Johnson of course enjoyed a much longer period of productivity and was
          far superior defensively, Westphal was as good offensively as Maravich
          an Gervin in the late 70s when he was playing in Phoenix before his
          foot problems began.

          An interesting trade - Westphal, the great offensive player, for
          Johnson the great defensive player. Obviously Phoenix got the better
          of the deal with Westphal's injury in Seattle, but up to that point I'd
          consider Westy superior.

          Did your alltime rating take into account longevity or team W-L record?
          (just curious)


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        • msg_53@hotmail.com
          To all who wonder: Mike Goodman s alltime rankings, based on statistics compiled since 1952, are based on standardized per-game averages, career totals,
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 8 4:41 PM
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            To all who wonder: Mike Goodman's alltime rankings, based on
            statistics compiled since 1952, are based on standardized per-game
            averages, career totals, per-minute averages, and playoff performance.
            --- In APBR_analysis@y..., Robert Bradley <bradleyrd13@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Johnson of course enjoyed a much longer period of productivity and
            was
            > far superior defensively, Westphal was as good offensively as
            Maravich
            > an Gervin in the late 70s when he was playing in Phoenix before his
            > foot problems began.
            >
            > An interesting trade - Westphal, the great offensive player, for
            > Johnson the great defensive player. Obviously Phoenix got the
            better
            > of the deal with Westphal's injury in Seattle, but up to that point
            I'd
            > consider Westy superior.
            >
            > Did your alltime rating take into account longevity or team W-L
            record?
            > (just curious)
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
            > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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