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more information on 82 games.com data

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  • Joe
    one of the issues i am interested in is the data that is available at 82games.com. i shared the initial caution of several other posters here about whether the
    Message 1 of 2 , Mar 5, 2004
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      one of the issues i am interested in is the data that is available at
      82games.com. i shared the initial caution of several other posters
      here about whether the data was, as advertised, 100% confirmed as a
      tabulation of every play and every second. the replies to requests
      for further information about sources to mr. roland beech seemed a
      little too general to me: "we use data from various sources and our
      own game charting". i wish the request to show a copy of the
      charting form had been accepted and the data was verified in a test.
      i want to believe 100% and not have that nagging little doubt. the
      size of the task is large but not impossible. if it took half an
      hour to chart each game that would be by my calculation about 25
      hours work a week. if it is an hour, then 50 hours a week. i agree
      basketball readers would benefit from this and filling the need might
      be a major net traffic generator, media attention getter, and
      eventually possibly a revenue making proposition. but if it is to be
      relied on and popularized i think further evidence of its soundness
      would be appropriate. this forum would seem to be a good place to
      make that review and perhaps give a stamp of approval (or not). i
      hope for further dialogue on this subject. i noted that dan
      rosenbaum indicated he had been provided a copy of the data. i dont
      know if he is inclined to share any further observations about the
      data or any further insight he was provided about how the data was
      compiled but if he is willing and able, that might help. given that
      he has not done that -so far as i can tell from a quick reading of
      posts- and that the data is copyright, i wonder if non-disclosure
      agreements might be involved. if so, the small caution remains, at
      least for me. speaking of disclosure, i wonder if any other posters
      here have seen the raw data or is involved in its collection /
      analysis or is officially associated with the site?

      i wish that site the best and hope the full promise of it is
      fulfilled. i agree with the comment about creating easy shortcuts to
      see other team data and perhaps stat leaders at each court position
      too.

      with that data and this audience, i agree that a whole new level of
      analysis should open. should be intriguing.
    • bchaikin@aol.com
      the effort put forth by roland beech and his staff at www.82games.com is absolutely revolutionary. why? because he s taken it upon himself to do what no one
      Message 2 of 2 , Mar 5, 2004
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        the effort put forth by roland beech and his staff at www.82games.com is absolutely revolutionary. why? because he's taken it upon himself to do what no one else has done, yet using what many have had access to - game tape and play-by-play, in collecting statistical information over and above the normal stats put out by the league. all the teams have game tape, some others have access to that game tape (or could tape games off of NBA TV), and many others have access to game play-by-play (a number of websites now have this). yet it has been roland that has made the effort to take that information and bring to the public - at absolutely no cost to us - in a way that no one else ever has, not the league, not the ESPN's or CBS Sportline's of the world, nobody.....

        rather than cast doubt on what he does (which i also did initially and thus am also guilty of) i suggest that all of us in this discussion group, rather than ask for more proof of what he actually does, ask what it is we can all do to help his effort. he is doing what all of us wish we had done, or wish we had complete and free access to...

        i too have been a receipient of some of his data and it is nothing short of amazing. is it completely 100% accurate? i doubt it - but its damn close, its only going to get better, and its a whole lot better than nothing, which is what was available to the general public (nothing meaning other than what the league provides) before his website appeared...

        anyone know who lee meade is? he was the ABA's original statistician in that first ABA season of 1967-68. he was the one who came up with the idea of keeping track of stats the NBA did not keep track of, like turnovers (he called them "errors" back then), rebounds differentiated to offensive and defensive, and more. the ABA also eventually starting keeping track of steals and blocked shots long before the NBA ever did. if you talk to lee (i have), he'll tell you how hard it was to get everyone on board to keep track of all of this "new" stuff that the NBA did not want to keep track of, or did not think of keeping track of, because it was alot of extra work and most thought "...if the NBA doesn't want it why should we?...". but as lee told them, that's exactly why you should keep track of it, because the NBA did not....

        roland beech in my mind is in the same postion lee meade was 36 years ago. the 1st or 2nd season of doing something completely different in terms of stats keeping there may be some bumps along the way, but very soon he and his website will be the preeminent source for NBA statistical data over and above what the league provides. i for one plan to do everything i can to make his effort successful, and hope everyone else in this group does to (as i'm sure most of us will)...

        and yes, primarily because of the pioneer effort of www.82games.com, "...whole new levels..." of analysis for basketball have already opened up...

        bob chaikin
        bchaikin@...
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