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Re: stats to keep track of

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  • Dean Oliver
    ... for ... given ... a ... given ... these turnovers ... given credit ... that do ... forced i d ... the ... forced to ... credit a ... but a ... of it ...
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 30, 2001
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      --- In APBR_analysis@y..., bchaikin@a... wrote:
      > dean -
      >
      > i agree...one stat i'd really like to see compiled by the league is
      for
      > "turnovers forced" - a stat for any turnover where a steal is not
      given
      > credit for. better yet, what i would like to see is that every time
      a
      > turnover is committed but a steal not credited, that a defender be
      given
      > credit for a "turnover forced"....
      >
      > now you know as well as i do that half or more of all of
      these "turnovers
      > forced" will in actual fact have nothing to do with the defender
      given credit
      > for it, but in the long run patterns will emerge of those players
      that do
      > indeed force the most turnovers. any turnover that wasn't actually
      forced i'd
      > just give credit to the defender guarding the player that committed
      the
      > turnover at that moment. even a 3 sec call i'd credit a turnover
      forced to
      > the man closest to the player it was called on. zone or no zone
      credit a
      > turnover forced to the player closest. this may not always be easy
      but a
      > statistician used to crediting assists and such would get the hang
      of it
      > eventually...

      This is one in my spreadsheet. I allow (since I ain't the NBA)
      forced TO's to be awarded as halves, too, so that the guy guarding
      the man with the ball can get half and the guy who doubles can get
      half, for instance. Same thing with forced misses. Very simple, but
      very important pieces of info.

      I also agree that recording of steals is pretty haphazard. I follow
      the game on the internet as I score it and there are always a few
      calls that I just don't understand. Sometimes a guy not even in the
      play will get a steal. That's the worst. I do think that steals are
      often poorly awarded, too. The guy on the ball often forces a bad
      pass through pressure, then the guy who picks off the pass was
      terribly out of position but gets the steal.

      Blocks are another one that I question.

      (I noticed last night a pattern in studying the Lakers last season.
      Basically their defense picked up significantly in the playoffs. And
      I always wondered why. I think I finally identified "who", which
      links a little bit to the why. This is for later....)

      Dean Oliver
    • Dean Oliver
      ... follow ... the ... are ... Last night, the Raptors set a record for blocks with 24. Pretty dubious record. Dave Cowens expressed some doubt, too:
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 8, 2001
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        --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "Dean Oliver" <deano@t...> wrote:
        > I also agree that recording of steals is pretty haphazard. I
        follow
        > the game on the internet as I score it and there are always a few
        > calls that I just don't understand. Sometimes a guy not even in
        the
        > play will get a steal. That's the worst. I do think that steals
        are
        > often poorly awarded, too. The guy on the ball often forces a bad
        > pass through pressure, then the guy who picks off the pass was
        > terribly out of position but gets the steal.
        >
        > Blocks are another one that I question.

        Last night, the Raptors "set a record" for blocks with 24. Pretty
        dubious record. Dave Cowens expressed some doubt, too:

        ``Maybe some of the layups that we missed were so bad that they gave
        them a block. I don't know, 24 blocks, that's a lot of blocks.''

        I've definitely seen many cases where guys are awarded blocks when
        someone does simply miss badly. That's what makes efforts at scoring
        the games, like what Stuart is doing or I've tried to do with the
        defensive stuff, particularly hard. Whereas baseball scoring is slow
        and not controversial, basketball is fast and the official scorers
        make some interesting decisions.
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