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Shaqtest failure

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  • Mike G
    This from Alleyoop.com s player rankings: 23.80 Kirilenko, Andr uta 15.9 7.1 2.6 .509 23.80 O Neal, Shaquil lal 22.2 12.9 3.0 .552 (They are ranked #9 & 10)
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 26, 2003
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      This from Alleyoop.com's player rankings:

      23.80 Kirilenko, Andr uta 15.9 7.1 2.6 .509
      23.80 O'Neal, Shaquil lal 22.2 12.9 3.0 .552

      (They are ranked #9 & 10)
    • Mike
      ... I don t know if the Shaq test still applies. He s scoring only 20PPG, down about 7/8 points from previous years. His FG% is down about 25 points, and so is
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 27, 2003
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        --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Mike G" <msg_53@h...> wrote:
        > This from Alleyoop.com's player rankings:
        >
        > 23.80 Kirilenko, Andr uta 15.9 7.1 2.6 .509
        > 23.80 O'Neal, Shaquil lal 22.2 12.9 3.0 .552
        >
        > (They are ranked #9 & 10)

        I don't know if the Shaq test still applies. He's scoring only
        20PPG, down about 7/8 points from previous years.
        His FG% is down about 25 points, and so is his FT%, which is
        hovering at 50%. None of the other stats have improved.

        Kirilenko is having a good year. He shoots at 50%, while his FT% is
        almost at 90%. All around he gives you something, either in steals
        (10th), blocks (10th), rebounding (7.2) or assists (2.8).

        Statistically I don't see a big discrepency, except Shaq plays
        center.

        Mike
      • John Hollinger
        I agree. Some background: I had Shaq No. 1 for like six years in a row, and last year McGrady finally beat him. This year he s nowhere close to what he had
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 28, 2003
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          I agree.

          Some background: I had Shaq No. 1 for like six years in a row, and
          last year McGrady finally beat him. This year he's nowhere close to
          what he had done before, and I don't think it's just b/c of fewer
          touches. His FG percentage is lower, his turnovers haven't gone down
          in proportion to his shots -- in fact he's making more, per minute --
          and his foul shooting is as bad as ever.



          --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <sultanoswat@y...> wrote:
          > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Mike G" <msg_53@h...> wrote:
          > > This from Alleyoop.com's player rankings:
          > >
          > > 23.80 Kirilenko, Andr uta 15.9 7.1 2.6 .509
          > > 23.80 O'Neal, Shaquil lal 22.2 12.9 3.0 .552
          > >
          > > (They are ranked #9 & 10)
          >
          > I don't know if the Shaq test still applies. He's scoring only
          > 20PPG, down about 7/8 points from previous years.
          > His FG% is down about 25 points, and so is his FT%, which is
          > hovering at 50%. None of the other stats have improved.
          >
          > Kirilenko is having a good year. He shoots at 50%, while his FT% is
          > almost at 90%. All around he gives you something, either in steals
          > (10th), blocks (10th), rebounding (7.2) or assists (2.8).
          >
          > Statistically I don't see a big discrepency, except Shaq plays
          > center.
          >
          > Mike
        • harlanzo
          ... to ... down ... minute -- ... That s true. Kobe, Malone, and Payton all have gone down a little this year but no where near what shaq has. Shaq is down
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 30, 2003
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            --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "John Hollinger"
            <alleyoop2@y...> wrote:
            > I agree.
            >
            > Some background: I had Shaq No. 1 for like six years in a row, and
            > last year McGrady finally beat him. This year he's nowhere close
            to
            > what he had done before, and I don't think it's just b/c of fewer
            > touches. His FG percentage is lower, his turnovers haven't gone
            down
            > in proportion to his shots -- in fact he's making more, per
            minute --
            > and his foul shooting is as bad as ever.
            >
            >

            That's true. Kobe, Malone, and Payton all have gone down a little
            this year but no where near what shaq has. Shaq is down 7.6 ppg
            this year yet he is the only player of the four not to raise his fg%
            with the fewer attempts. I just wrote about this:

            http://www.hoopsanalyst.com/qt7.htm

            I'd just cut and pasted the results but the chart came out funny on
            this site.
          • Daniel Dickey
            I m guessing Shaq is playing more minutes per game than Andre, and the PER is a per minute type stat - so it wouldn t distinguish that too much. Andre s per 48
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 30, 2003
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              I'm guessing Shaq is playing more minutes per game than Andre, and the PER
              is a per minute type stat - so it wouldn't distinguish that too much.
              Andre's per 48 stats probably compare pretty well to Shaq's.


              >From: "harlanzo" <harlanzo@...>
              >Reply-To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
              >To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: [APBR_analysis] Re: Shaqtest failure
              >Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:56:53 -0000
              >
              >--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "John Hollinger"
              ><alleyoop2@y...> wrote:
              > > I agree.
              > >
              > > Some background: I had Shaq No. 1 for like six years in a row, and
              > > last year McGrady finally beat him. This year he's nowhere close
              >to
              > > what he had done before, and I don't think it's just b/c of fewer
              > > touches. His FG percentage is lower, his turnovers haven't gone
              >down
              > > in proportion to his shots -- in fact he's making more, per
              >minute --
              > > and his foul shooting is as bad as ever.
              > >
              > >
              >
              >That's true. Kobe, Malone, and Payton all have gone down a little
              >this year but no where near what shaq has. Shaq is down 7.6 ppg
              >this year yet he is the only player of the four not to raise his fg%
              >with the fewer attempts. I just wrote about this:
              >
              >http://www.hoopsanalyst.com/qt7.htm
              >
              >I'd just cut and pasted the results but the chart came out funny on
              >this site.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >

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            • Mike G
              ... the PER ... much. ... Kirilenko is actually playing about 1.2 more mpg than Shaq. In fewer minutes, Shaq tops AK by 3.4 rebounds and 2.6 points, per game.
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 1, 2003
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                --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Dickey"
                <danthestatman@h...> wrote:
                > I'm guessing Shaq is playing more minutes per game than Andre, and
                the PER
                > is a per minute type stat - so it wouldn't distinguish that too
                much.
                > Andre's per 48 stats probably compare pretty well to Shaq's.

                Kirilenko is actually playing about 1.2 more mpg than Shaq.

                In fewer minutes, Shaq tops AK by 3.4 rebounds and 2.6 points, per
                game.

                Andre beats Shaq in steals, 1.9 to 0.4, and in Eff%, .614 to .543

                I suspect John H puts more weight on shooting % than I do.


                While I am at it, here's my Top 25 (updated just minutes ago):

                rate player . . team sco reb ast
                47.2 Garnett,Kevin Min 25 14 5
                45.5 Duncan,Tim SA 28 13 3
                41.8 O'Neal,Jermaine Ind 24 12 3
                40.5 Davis,Baron NO 25 5 9
                38.5 Kidd,Jason NJ 19 7 11
                38.0 O'Neal,Shaquille LAL 23 12 3
                36.9 Mcgrady,Tracy Orl 25 5 6
                36.8 Iverson,Allen Phi 27 3 6
                36.5 Randolph,Zach Por 23 13 3
                36.5 Pierce,Paul Bos 24 7 6
                36.2 Kirilenko,Andrei Uta 21 9 3
                36.1 Ming,Yao Hou 22 11 2
                35.8 Martin,Kenyon NJ 22 10 2
                35.0 Carter,Vince Tor 26 5 5
                34.7 Stojakovic,Predr Sac 27 6 2
                34.4 Bryant,Kobe LAL 26 4 4
                34.1 Artest,Ron Ind 23 6 4
                34.0 Abdur-Rahim,Shar Atl 22 10 3
                33.9 Malone,Karl LAL 18 11 5
                33.4 Billups,Chauncey Det 23 4 6
                33.3 Redd,Michael Mil 24 6 3
                33.0 Miller,Brad Sac 15 10 5
                32.7 Ginobili,Emanuel SA 19 6 6
                32.5 Richardson,Jason GS 21 9 3
                32.5 Cassell,Sam Min 21 3 8

                So who thinks Shareef will finally get to an allstar game? He's
                certainly among the top 12 players in the East; but there is a lot
                of competition at forward.
              • John Hollinger
                Agree with the sentiments, but Shareef made it two years ago. ... and
                Message 7 of 7 , Dec 1, 2003
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                  Agree with the sentiments, but Shareef made it two years ago.

                  --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Mike G" <msg_53@h...> wrote:
                  > --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Dickey"
                  > <danthestatman@h...> wrote:
                  > > I'm guessing Shaq is playing more minutes per game than Andre,
                  and
                  > the PER
                  > > is a per minute type stat - so it wouldn't distinguish that too
                  > much.
                  > > Andre's per 48 stats probably compare pretty well to Shaq's.
                  >
                  > Kirilenko is actually playing about 1.2 more mpg than Shaq.
                  >
                  > In fewer minutes, Shaq tops AK by 3.4 rebounds and 2.6 points, per
                  > game.
                  >
                  > Andre beats Shaq in steals, 1.9 to 0.4, and in Eff%, .614 to .543
                  >
                  > I suspect John H puts more weight on shooting % than I do.
                  >
                  >
                  > While I am at it, here's my Top 25 (updated just minutes ago):
                  >
                  > rate player . . team sco reb ast
                  > 47.2 Garnett,Kevin Min 25 14 5
                  > 45.5 Duncan,Tim SA 28 13 3
                  > 41.8 O'Neal,Jermaine Ind 24 12 3
                  > 40.5 Davis,Baron NO 25 5 9
                  > 38.5 Kidd,Jason NJ 19 7 11
                  > 38.0 O'Neal,Shaquille LAL 23 12 3
                  > 36.9 Mcgrady,Tracy Orl 25 5 6
                  > 36.8 Iverson,Allen Phi 27 3 6
                  > 36.5 Randolph,Zach Por 23 13 3
                  > 36.5 Pierce,Paul Bos 24 7 6
                  > 36.2 Kirilenko,Andrei Uta 21 9 3
                  > 36.1 Ming,Yao Hou 22 11 2
                  > 35.8 Martin,Kenyon NJ 22 10 2
                  > 35.0 Carter,Vince Tor 26 5 5
                  > 34.7 Stojakovic,Predr Sac 27 6 2
                  > 34.4 Bryant,Kobe LAL 26 4 4
                  > 34.1 Artest,Ron Ind 23 6 4
                  > 34.0 Abdur-Rahim,Shar Atl 22 10 3
                  > 33.9 Malone,Karl LAL 18 11 5
                  > 33.4 Billups,Chauncey Det 23 4 6
                  > 33.3 Redd,Michael Mil 24 6 3
                  > 33.0 Miller,Brad Sac 15 10 5
                  > 32.7 Ginobili,Emanuel SA 19 6 6
                  > 32.5 Richardson,Jason GS 21 9 3
                  > 32.5 Cassell,Sam Min 21 3 8
                  >
                  > So who thinks Shareef will finally get to an allstar game? He's
                  > certainly among the top 12 players in the East; but there is a lot
                  > of competition at forward.
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