- --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "McKibbin, Stuart" <smckibbi@c...> wrote:
> Perhaps a summary of Iverson is in order.

touches

>

> 452 possessions. 328 touches.

> 86 of the touches came from Iverson advancing the ball. 67 of the

> were in transition. Transition touches and advancing touches

overlapped 30

> times.

45.3%. He

>

> Overall, Al shot the 162 times (162/328 = 49.3%). He was 33-85 with

> jumpshots, including 11 treys for a true shooting percentage of

> was 15-33 (45.5%) when he drove and then pulled up for the

jumpshot. He was

> 18-44 (41.0%) when he drove to the basket for a layup.

Stuart, have you broken down the FT attempts resulting from these 3

categories of shot attempts? My guess is that adding in those points

and attempts will yield a much more favorable case for Iverson going

to the rack.

And that doesn't even consider damage done to the opponent by picking

up fouls. Maybe this could be quantified?

> However, when he was in transition, and many times unguarded, his

shooting

> percentage went way up. In transition situations he was 18-31

(58%). 3-5

> with jumpshots, tsp = 70%, 5-9 with the pullup jumper, 10-17 taking

it to

> the rack. So when Allen took it all the way to the basket and

wasn't in

> transition he was a mere 8-27 (29.6%), demonstrating that in the

half court

> at least it's still a big man's game. But in the open court Al's

speed is a

> hell of an advantage.

times, and

>

> On his 86 advances Iverson passed the ball 37 times, shot it 33

> was fouled 7 times. The other 8 advances consists of various misc.

the ball

> happenings.

>

> Al passed the ball 109 times, (109/328 = 33.2%). 17 assists and 12

> "assist-like" plays. .

>

> He had 11 turnovers (11/328 = 3.3%) and was fouled 32 times with

> (32/328 = 9.7%) and was fouled 7 times away from the ball. 14 other

from the

> miscellaneous things (like jumpballs, deflections, timeouts, away

> ball fouls, illegal screens, etc.) happened to round out the 328.

So if Iverson was fouled with the ball 32 times, 7 in transition,

that leaves 25. If 20 of these were while attempting to shoot, and

15 (just guessing) were on layup attempts, he may have another (24-30

FT, just a guess) equivalent of 12-15 shooting to add to his 8-27 FG.

This is 20-42, which is right up there with his long-range TSP.

> There were 170 possessions when Al did not touched the ball. Philly

scored

> 148 points or 0.87 pts/poss.

a FGA or

> There were 119 possessions when Al touched the ball and didn't get

> a FTA. Philly scored 116 points or 0.97 pts/poss.

scored 203

> There were 172 possesions were Al had either a FGA or FTA. Philly

> points or 1.18 pts/poss. 32 of the 203 points came from Philly

hitting the

> offensive boards (including Al recovering his own shot, so there is

a little

> double counting here).

This makes a strong case that Iverson should in fact be taking the

> I don't count the technicals Al shot as part of any possession.

shots on this team. In fact, he wasn't in the game at all some of

the time, and if this were more than 1 or 2 minutes it might need to

be figured separately.

Is it possible to break down the offensive rebounding resulting from

the 3 categories (outside jumper, pullup jumper, layup)?

And how did you classify those times when Iverson beat his man and

lobbed it up over Shaq? Those seemed to fall at a high percentage.

Mike Goodman "Stuart, have you broken down the FT attempts resulting from these 3

categories of shot attempts? My guess is that adding in those points

and attempts will yield a much more favorable case for Iverson going

to the rack. And that doesn't even consider damage done to the opponent by picking

up fouls. Maybe this could be quantified? So if Iverson was fouled with the ball 32 times, 7 in transition,

that leaves 25. If 20 of these were while attempting to shoot, and

15 (just guessing) were on layup attempts, he may have another (24-30

FT, just a guess) equivalent of 12-15 shooting to add to his 8-27 FG.

This is 20-42, which is right up there with his long-range TSP."

I quick run back through my chart breaks down the FT's like this:

2 Technicals, 10 bonus fouls for 20 FTs, 8 Driving layups for 15 FTs (that includes one "and-1" FT), 4 pullup jumpers for 7FTs (that includes one "and-1" FT), and 1 jumpshot for 3 Fts. 16 times he was fouled without getting a FT. I'm missing a FT from Game 3, my charts say 12, the boxscore says 13. Perhaps it was a technical foul I didn't have the tape running for.

So to continue your train of thought---Iverson took it to the rack with the intention of shooting it 51 times. He made 17, made 1 and was fouled, was fouled on 7 others for 14 FTs, and missed the other 26 attempts. Rather than see how many FTs Al actually made, I think it would be better to just multiply his FTA times his FT%. So the results were (18 + (15/2 x .8))/51 = 47%. (up from 41%) Which is just what you suspected, Mike. I think what I should do is see which fouls came in transition and subtract those out (I never said 7 fouls came in transition).

"Is it possible to break down the offensive rebounding resulting from the 3 categories (outside jumper, pullup jumper, layup)? And how did you classify those times when Iverson beat his man and lobbed it up over Shaq? Those seemed to fall at a high percentage."

The teardrops over Shaq were counted as layups---he wasn't pointing his elbow at the rim.

Well here's the total breakdown of offensive rebounding based on shot type:

Jumpshot: 52 misses. Teammates recovered 8 offensive rebs plus two team rebounds. The eight off rebs were converted into 18 points, with Al scoring 3 of the 18. The two team rebs were converted into 5 points with Al scoring all 5.------Total 10 second chances, 23 points.

Driving Jumpshot: 18 misses. Teammates recovered 6 offensive rebs which were converted into 4 points.

Layups: 26 misses. Teammates recovered two that hit the rim and converted them into 5 points. Teammates recovered one blocked shot and converted it into 2 points. 2 team rebounds were converted into 3 points. Al recovered 4 of his own shots and he converted them into 4 points by himself.----Total 9 second chances, 14 points.

In my mind what Doug Collins termed the "Iverson effect" should be offensive rebounds by teammates only (recovering blocked shots, team rebounds or Al getting his own misses shouldn't count). So I'd put the Iverson effect as 87 misses, 16 offensive rebounds, 27 points.

- --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "McKibbin, Stuart" <smckibbi@c...> wrote:
> In my mind what Doug Collins termed the "Iverson effect" should be

offensive

> rebounds by teammates only (recovering blocked shots, team rebounds

or Al

> getting his own misses shouldn't count). So I'd put the Iverson

effect as 87

> misses, 16 offensive rebounds, 27 points.

I'm completely swamped at work these days, so I don't have much time,

but I do have one comment on this.

It's interesting.

OK, I have more than that. 16 rebounds of 87 misses isn't very

good. The hypothesis has always been that teammates should rebound

more of his misses proportionately. Apparently not true.

However, 27 points on 16 orebs is pretty impressive. Much better

than I thought it would be.

Sooo... my calculations generally assume that a team performs just

about as well off of misses as it does in a normal possession. 27

points out of 87 misses is about right because the Sixers rebounded

33% of their own missed shots in the postseason and scored 1.03 pts

per possession. So my estimate on how many points should have been

scored off of Iverson's misses is 1.03*0.327*87 = 29 pts.

What I don't estimate very well, however, is that only 16 of his 87

misses be rebounded. I estimated 0.327*87 = 28. This makes his

offensive efficiency look higher than it was.

On the other hand (I argue with myself a lot on these things), I do

give credit for other players rebounding

In the end, I estimated that Iverson scored on 48% of his 161

possessions, "producing" 165 points. I defined possessions slightly

differently -- a missed shot of his that is rebounded by a teammate

is not considered a possession. I had him "winning" 2 of 5 games vs.

the Lakers.

OK, that's more time than I can afford. But I will study this stuff

more after 11/19 when my life gets a little more normal. Very useful.

Dean Oliver

Journal of Basketball Studies