Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [APBR_analysis] More Olympic Quals

Expand Messages
  • igor eduardo küpfer
    The USA team was in a class of its own, but I m impressed by how well the Argentinean team shot. On the defensive end, Puerto Rico held its own with the US
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 10, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      The USA team was in a class of its own, but I'm impressed by how well the
      Argentinean team shot. On the defensive end, Puerto Rico held its own with
      the US team.

      TEAM EffFG% TEAM dEffFG%
      USA .616 USA .439
      ARG .580 PUR .447
      VEN .522 BRA .526
      PUR .522 URU .527
      MEX .501 MEX .536
      CAN .501 VEN .537
      BRA .491 ISV .538
      URU .464 ARG .551
      DOM .441 CAN .553
      ISV .412 DOM .559

      There's a pretty big difference between the top 2 defensive teams, USA and
      PR, and the rest of the field.

      TEAM OffRtg TEAM DefRtg
      USA 127.0 USA 88.4
      ARG 115.7 PUR 98.9
      BRA 109.5 BRA 107.5
      CAN 109.0 ARG 110.4
      MEX 108.1 CAN 111.7
      PUR 105.6 VEN 112.6
      VEN 105.5 MEX 116.8
      URU 99.0 ISV 117.1
      DOM 95.4 DOM 117.9
      ISV 88.2 URU 120.1


      NBA-paced games from each team.

      TEAM Poss/g poss/48
      BRA 80.9 (97.1)
      USA 80.1 (96.1)
      VEN 79.2 (95.0)
      ISV 78.8 (94.5)
      MEX 78.5 (94.2)
      CAN 78.1 (93.7)
      DOM 77.4 (92.9)
      PUR 76.4 (91.7)
      ARG 75.7 (90.8)
      URU 73.3 (87.9)

      I broke down how each team distributed its possessions among its players.
      The Herfindahl-Hirshman Index can be used to see if one player monopolized
      his team's possessions -- the lower the HHI, the more equality among
      player's possessions.

      TEAM HHI
      USA .103
      ARG .105
      PUR .105
      CAN .107
      DOM .115
      MEX .115
      URU .126
      BRA .130
      VEN .139
      ISV .147

      With all its stars, the USA team can hardly suffer by spreading the wealth.
      I was surprised to see that other teams followed the same pattern, although
      it's probably a tribute to their concept of "team" ball. I'm not so certain
      it's the way to go, though. As a point of reference, here is the HHI from
      various NBA teams:

      1988 POR .125
      1996 UTA .126
      1996 CHI .151
      2000 VAN .132
      2002 CLE .110

      I still don't know how useful the Index is in analysing team play. I'm
      working on it.

      ed
    • Dean Oliver
      ... well the ... own with ... I looked at these numbers, too, and really thought at first that the USA was once again well above everyone else. It was when I
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 10, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, igor eduardo küpfer
        <igorkupfer@r...> wrote:
        > The USA team was in a class of its own, but I'm impressed by how
        well the
        > Argentinean team shot. On the defensive end, Puerto Rico held its
        own with
        > the US team.
        >
        > TEAM EffFG% TEAM dEffFG%
        > USA .616 USA .439
        > ARG .580 PUR .447
        > VEN .522 BRA .526
        > PUR .522 URU .527
        > MEX .501 MEX .536
        > CAN .501 VEN .537
        > BRA .491 ISV .538
        > URU .464 ARG .551
        > DOM .441 CAN .553
        > ISV .412 DOM .559
        >

        I looked at these numbers, too, and really thought at first that the
        USA was once again well above everyone else. It was when I started
        looking more carefully that I realized that the US isn't that far
        from being beaten once. With this team, it's a ways from losing as
        often as the 2002 team did.


        > I broke down how each team distributed its possessions among its
        players.
        > The Herfindahl-Hirshman Index can be used to see if one player
        monopolized
        > his team's possessions -- the lower the HHI, the more equality among
        > player's possessions.
        >
        > TEAM HHI
        > USA .103
        > ARG .105
        > PUR .105
        > CAN .107
        > DOM .115
        > MEX .115
        > URU .126
        > BRA .130
        > VEN .139
        > ISV .147
        >
        > With all its stars, the USA team can hardly suffer by spreading the
        wealth.
        > I was surprised to see that other teams followed the same pattern,
        although
        > it's probably a tribute to their concept of "team" ball. I'm not so
        certain
        > it's the way to go, though. As a point of reference, here is the
        HHI from
        > various NBA teams:
        >
        > 1988 POR .125
        > 1996 UTA .126
        > 1996 CHI .151
        > 2000 VAN .132
        > 2002 CLE .110

        I know of this index. It makes sense here at least as a reference.
        The NBA hasn't had a lot of balanced teams in a while. Whether a
        team should be balanced or not depends upon their talent
        distribution. With so much talent on the Olympic teams, it makes
        more sense to be balanced. If you have a bunch of role players and
        one good guy who can handle a lot of possessions, it doesn't
        necessarily make sense. Certainly, last year's Lakers shouldn't be
        balanced, but this year's should be.

        We should run this on the 2002 numbers. Actually, you must have the
        cumulative numbers for all the 2003 teams. I don't. I only have the
        US. Where did you get the others?

        DeanO
      • igor eduardo küpfer
        ... From: Dean Oliver To: Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 2:32 PM Subject: [APBR_analysis] Re: More Olympic
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 10, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Dean Oliver" <deano@...>
          To: <APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 2:32 PM
          Subject: [APBR_analysis] Re: More Olympic Quals



          > We should run this on the 2002 numbers. Actually, you must have the
          > cumulative numbers for all the 2003 teams. I don't. I only have the
          > US. Where did you get the others?

          I summed them from the individual boxscores. Here, I put everything together
          as a csv:
          Individual player game boxes --
          http://members.rogers.com/igorkupfer/odd/olympicqual.csv
          Team boxes - http://members.rogers.com/igorkupfer/odd/olympicqual_team.csv

          ed
        • John Hollinger
          I d also be interested in seeing whether these numbers stem form the team game, or whether it s an artifact of nobody on the other teams being good enough to
          Message 4 of 5 , Oct 12, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            I'd also be interested in seeing whether these numbers stem form
            the 'team' game, or whether it's an artifact of nobody on the other
            teams being good enough to dominate the possessions. A good way to
            check would be to see how Germany or Spain, both of whom have one
            player who is miles better than the rest, spread their possession in
            the world championships.




            --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, igor eduardo küpfer
            <igorkupfer@r...> wrote:
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Dean Oliver" <deano@r...>
            > To: <APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 2:32 PM
            > Subject: [APBR_analysis] Re: More Olympic Quals
            >
            >
            >
            > > We should run this on the 2002 numbers. Actually, you must have
            the
            > > cumulative numbers for all the 2003 teams. I don't. I only have
            the
            > > US. Where did you get the others?
            >
            > I summed them from the individual boxscores. Here, I put everything
            together
            > as a csv:
            > Individual player game boxes --
            > http://members.rogers.com/igorkupfer/odd/olympicqual.csv
            > Team boxes -
            http://members.rogers.com/igorkupfer/odd/olympicqual_team.csv
            >
            > ed
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.