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RE: [APBR_analysis] Stiff Points Redux

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  • Michael Tamada
    Interesting stuff. Also, 5 of the Top 10 and 11 of the Top 20 by my count fall into a subcategory of Stiff: BWS (Big White Stiffs, i.e. centers who are (a)
    Message 1 of 2 , Jul 14, 2003
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      Interesting stuff.

      Also, 5 of the Top 10 and 11 of the Top 20 by my count

      fall into a subcategory of Stiff: BWS (Big White Stiffs,

      i.e. centers who are (a) stiffs and (b) White. But there's

      plenty of BBS's in there too; Tree and Parish (of course

      Parish's presence on the list suggests some problems in the

      formula).



      --MKT



      -----Original Message-----

      From: igor eduardo küpfer [mailto:igorkupfer@...]

      Sent: Sat 7/12/2003 9:48 PM

      To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com

      Cc:

      Subject: [APBR_analysis] Stiff Points Redux



      There are players who seem to hang around forever, never having a huge

      impact, but being just good enough to earn a roster spot every season. Guys

      like Will Perdue and Antoine Carr. Players who managed to play in a large

      number of games, although usually in garbage time during a blowout. I call

      these players stiffs, and I've figured out a formula to calculate Stiff

      Points.



      Before I go on, I must say that leaders in Stiff Points are not necessarily

      bad players -- number seven on the list below emphatically shows that. The

      Stiff Points formula -- games played divided by minutes per game -- is

      intended to highlight players who play many games, but don't really play

      many minutes. This guarantees that truly bad players will never make the top

      of the list -- those players will be out of the league before they get a

      chance to amass the number of games needed to be an all-time Stiff.



      An earlier version of the formula subtracted offensive performance -- so

      that no matter how many games played, and how few minutes, you'd never see a

      player as good as John Stockton in the top 50. I've since decided that that

      was a needless complication -- Stiff Points measures just one aspect of a

      player's career, along with points scored, defensive ability, MVPs won, etc.

      The reader can weigh Stiff Points against these other stats to get a better

      picture of a player's overall stiffosity (although I think Stiff Points

      captures it pretty well on its own). To that end, I've included pts/game and

      Manley Credits/game for comparison.



      CAREER STIFF POINTS LEADERS



      StiffPoints Player Games Min/g Pts/g MC/g



      1 71.5 Tree Rollins 1156 20.8 5.4 11.1

      2 68.7 Scott Hastings 578 10.4 2.8 4.1

      3 68.4 Joe Kleine 965 15.2 4.8 6.8

      4 68.3 Mark West 1090 18.5 5.7 9.0

      5 67.1 Jud Buechler 720 11.7 3.3 4.2

      6 66.0 Danny Schayes 1138 19.3 7.7 10.3

      7 62.3 Robert Parish 1611 28.4 14.5 19.1

      8 60.3 Rick Mahorn 1117 23.1 6.9 10.9

      9 60.1 Greg Dreiling 474 8.9 2.1 3.4

      10 59.5 Bill Wennington 720 13.5 4.6 5.8



      11 59.3 Greg Foster 656 12.2 3.9 4.5

      12 58.7 Steve Kerr 910 17.8 6.0 6.4

      13 58.0 Will Perdue 792 15.6 4.7 7.9

      14 57.9 Greg Kite 680 14.8 2.5 5.1

      15 57.6 Chris Dudley 886 18.4 3.9 8.0

      16 56.9 Don Nelson 1053 20.6 10.3 11.9

      17 55.8 Hank Finkel 551 12.5 5.1 6.8

      18 55.0 George T. Johnson 904 20.0 4.8 11.4

      19 54.9 Dell Curry 1083 21.7 11.7 10.0

      20 54.6 Paul Mokeski 694 14.0 4.0 5.7



      21 54.4 Scott Brooks 680 13.6 4.9 6.0

      22 54.3 Mark Bryant 797 16.9 5.4 7.0

      23 54.3 James Edwards 1168 24.3 12.7 12.3

      24 54.3 Alton Lister 953 19.9 6.6 10.8

      25 53.9 LaSalle Thompson 985 21.6 7.9 12.1

      26 53.7 Antoine Carr 987 20.0 9.3 9.7

      27 53.7 Herb Williams 1102 25.8 10.8 12.7

      28 53.6 Jerome Kersey 1153 24.4 10.3 12.5

      29 53.2 Fred Roberts 818 18.0 7.3 7.8

      30 52.9 Kurt Rambis 880 18.5 5.2 9.8



      31 52.2 Wayne Cooper 984 20.6 7.9 11.2

      32 52.1 Barry Clemens 790 15.9 6.7 7.5

      33 51.9 Danny Ferry 917 19.8 7.0 7.4

      34 51.7 Kevin Willis 1342 28.0 12.7 15.4

      35 51.5 Jack Haley 341 9.6 3.5 3.9

      36 51.4 Sam Mitchell 994 22.4 8.7 8.9

      37 51.4 Olden Polynice 1056 23.6 7.8 11.0

      38 51.1 Tom Hammonds 687 15.2 5.3 6.0

      39 50.8 Mel Counts 789 17.4 8.3 11.0

      40 50.7 Duane Ferrell 583 15.0 6.4 5.9



      41 50.6 Johnny Newman 1159 24.5 11.0 9.2

      42 50.3 Phil Jackson 807 17.6 6.7 8.9

      43 50.0 Craig Ehlo 873 24.1 8.6 10.4

      44 49.8 David Wingate 740 17.9 5.6 6.0

      45 49.7 Avery Johnson 1008 25.8 8.5 11.0

      46 49.6 Johnny Green 1057 23.3 11.6 15.0

      47 49.6 Terry Porter 1274 27.8 12.2 14.7

      48 49.4 T.R. Dunn 993 23.2 5.1 9.1

      49 49.3 John Stockton 1504 31.8 13.1 20.8

      50 48.9 Paul Silas 1254 27.9 9.4 15.7





      HIGHEST SINGLE SEASON STIFF POINTS RECORDED



      StiffPoints Player Games Min/g Pts/g MC/g



      1 13.4 Dave Zeller (1962) 61 4.6 1.5 1.7

      2 13.0 Fennis Dembo (1989) 31 2.4 1.2 0.9

      3 12.5 Mike Price (1971) 56 4.5 1.5 1.1

      4 12.4 Brian Davis (1994) 68 5.5 1.9 1.5

      5 11.9 Granville Waiters (1986) 43 3.6 0.6 0.8

      6 11.6 Hank Finkel (1973) 76 6.5 2.4 3.2

      7 11.3 Ted Luckenbill (1962) 67 5.9 2.0 2.5

      8 11.1 Gary Zeller (1971) 50 4.5 1.7 0.5

      9 11.0 Les Jepsen (1992) 31 2.8 0.8 1.3

      10 11.0 Bob Wiesenhahn (1962) 60 5.4 2.0 2.2



      11 10.9 Len Kosmalski (1975) 67 6.2 1.3 3.1

      12 10.7 Craig Ehlo (1985) 45 4.2 1.9 1.9

      13 10.7 Kenny Williams (1991) 75 7.0 2.9 3.7

      14 10.6 Stuart Gray (1986) 67 6.3 2.3 2.9

      15 10.5 Scott Lloyd (1979) 72 6.9 1.5 1.5

      16 10.4 Billy Paultz (1985) 62 6.0 1.3 1.9

      17 10.1 Eric Riley (1994) 47 4.7 1.9 2.2

      18 10.0 Dennis Duval (1975) 37 3.7 1.6 1.8

      19 9.9 Craig Dykema (1982) 32 3.2 1.3 1.3

      20 9.8 Ronnie Grandison (1989) 72 7.3 2.5 2.7



      21 9.8 Lance Blanks (1992) 43 4.4 1.5 1.7

      22 9.8 Bevo Nordmann (1962) 58 5.9 2.3 3.0

      23 9.7 Glenn McDonald (1975) 62 6.4 2.7 2.5

      24 9.7 Travis Knight (2000) 63 6.5 1.7 2.9

      25 9.7 Randy Woods (1993) 41 4.2 1.7 1.7

      26 9.6 Scott Hastings (1990) 40 4.2 1.1 1.4

      27 9.6 Jackie Ridgle (1972) 32 3.3 1.8 1.5

      28 9.6 Rich Rinaldi (1972) 39 4.1 2.7 1.7

      29 9.3 Rich King (1994) 27 2.9 1.5 1.3

      30 9.2 Stephen Howard (1993) 49 5.3 2.1 2.1



      31 9.2 Walter Palmer (1991) 28 3.0 1.4 1.2

      32 9.2 Eric Fernsten (1982) 43 4.7 1.3 1.5

      33 9.1 Andre Wakefield (1979) 73 8.0 2.4 1.8

      34 9.0 Conner Henry (1987) 54 6.0 2.3 1.4

      35 9.0 Jud Buechler (1998) 74 8.2 2.7 3.3

      36 9.0 Jack Haley (1989) 51 5.7 2.2 2.5

      37 9.0 George T. Johnson (1973) 56 6.2 1.6 3.0

      38 8.9 Shawnelle Scott (1998) 41 4.6 1.1 2.2

      39 8.9 Eddie Miles (1972) 42 4.7 1.5 1.2

      40 8.9 Jeff Webb (1972) 46 5.2 2.1 1.9



      41 8.8 Nick Jones (1972) 65 7.4 3.3 2.7

      42 8.8 Greg Kite (1986) 64 7.3 1.3 2.3

      43 8.8 Nate Bowman (1970) 81 9.2 2.9 4.5

      44 8.8 David Wood (1997) 46 5.2 1.2 1.7

      45 8.8 Michael Stewart (2003) 47 5.3 0.8 1.6

      46 8.8 Hank McDowell (1985) 34 3.9 1.4 1.6

      47 8.8 John Lambert (1976) 54 6.2 2.3 3.5

      48 8.8 Vic Bartolome (1972) 38 4.3 0.9 1.4

      49 8.7 Kurk Lee (1991) 48 5.5 1.4 1.4

      50 8.7 Tom Kropp (1976) 25 2.9 0.8 0.8







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