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Re: Dilution, balance, and Bob-bashing

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  • Mike G <msg_53@hotmail.com>
    ... talent. I m not really concerned with the racial aspect of this; my problem is more with the idea that race doesn t, by itself, explain the shift in the
    Message 1 of 35 , Jan 3, 2003
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      --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "John W. Craven"
      <john1974@u...> wrote:
      > Like others, I have problems simply looking at color WRT basketball
      talent. I'm not really concerned with the racial aspect of this; my
      problem is more with the idea that race doesn't, by itself, explain
      the shift in the talent base. I think that by "white", you
      mean "learned the game primarily by playing organized ball" and
      by "black" you mean "learned the game on the streets."

      John, thanks for your thoughtful reply.

      Race is one thing; like height, socioeconomic status, place of
      origin/upbringing, or any of a number of factors.

      We are all concerned about the lack of good centers today. It might
      also be of concern if there were only a handful of players from east
      of the Mississippi, or if only wealthy people were interested in the

      The fact is, there are players from all over the country and from
      different social backgrounds, but the racial majority has walked away
      from the game. This cannot possibly be a good thing, or one that is
      best served by saying 'It's not a problem'.

      I think of the midwestern kid with the hoop nailed to the side of the
      barn; later he plays organized ball. He is almost extinct.

      I never played except on the playgrounds (streets?). In a college
      town, you get players of every color and background. One day someone
      brought a 'boom box', and I learned that basketball is a rhythm thing.

      Players can be brought into the game if they are in synch with the
      rhythm. Or their games can be messed up if they aren't.

      Sometimes a player will deliberately mess with the rhythm to throw
      off the other team. The unexpected steal, the pass off the
      dribble ...

      Since I have my own set of stats back to 1952, here's a list of white
      American NBA/ABA players above a certain level of performance for
      every 5th year.

      40.9 Mikan Min
      36.9 Arizin Phl
      33.9 Schayes Syr
      33.1 Cousy Bos
      32.4 Foust FtW
      32.1 Risen Roc
      31.7 Mikkelsen Min
      31.2 McCauley Bos
      29.2 Gallatin NY
      28.1 Otten Mil
      28.0 Pollard Min
      27.4 Wanzer Roc
      27.4 Davies Roc
      27.1 Graboski Ind
      26.7 Barksdale Bal
      26.4 Simmons NY
      26.2 Cervi Syr
      26.0 Miasek Bal
      25.2 Schaus FtW

      39.4 Pettit StL
      36.7 Johnston Phl
      34.3 Schayes Syr
      32.8 Arizin Phl
      32.4 Lovellette Min
      31.6 Yardley FtW
      30.5 Cousy Bos
      29.9 Gallatin NY
      28.3 Heinsohn Bos
      27.9 Sharman Bos
      27.6 Foust FtW
      26.6 Felix NY
      26.3 Share StL
      24.8 Twyman Roc
      24.6 McCauley StL
      24.6 Ramsey Bos

      38.3 Pettit StL
      34.0 West LA
      31.9 Heinsohn Bos
      31.8 Guerin NY
      29.5 Hagan StL
      29.3 Lovellette StL
      29.0 Howell Det
      27.6 Cousy Bos
      26.8 Twyman Cin
      25.5 LaRusso LA
      24.8 Gambee Syr
      24.8 Arizin Phl
      24.7 Ramsey Bos

      36.6 Barry SF
      32.3 West LA
      30.0 Cunningham Phl
      29.6 Havlicek Bos
      29.5 Howell Bos
      28.3 Lucas Cin
      26.1 DeBusschere Det

      35.3 West LA
      34.3 Cunningham Phl
      33.1 Issel Ky
      33.0 Havlicek Bos
      31.6 Lucas NY
      31.3 Goodrich LA
      30.7 Barry NY
      30.5 Cowens Bos
      28.4 Marin Bal
      28.4 Mullins GS
      27.8 Kauffman Buf
      27.3 Maravich Atl
      26.9 DeBusschere NY
      26.3 Boerwinkle Chi
      26.2 Tomjanovich Hou
      26.0 Nelson Bos
      25.9 Robisch Den
      25.2 Melchionni NY
      25.1 Roberson Cle
      25.0 Sloan Chi
      24.9 Schlueter Por
      24.7 Paultz NY
      24.6 Fox Cin
      24.5 DVanArsdale Phe
      24.5 TVanArsdale Cin

      41.0 Walton Por
      36.5 Adams Phe
      35.7 Issel Den
      35.1 Jones Den
      34.7 Maravich NO
      33.8 Westphal Phe
      32.9 Barry GS
      32.9 Cowens Bos
      30.0 Tomjanovich Hou
      28.8 Paultz SA
      28.3 Kupchak Was
      27.7 Kelley NO
      27.2 Burleson Sea
      27.2 Collins Phl
      27.1 Kunnert Hou
      26.7 Winters Mil
      26.3 Havlicek Bos
      26.3 Robisch Ind
      26.0 Holland Chi
      25.4 Gross Por
      25.1 Green Sea
      25.0 Wedman KC
      24.7 Newlin Hou
      24.6 Hawes Atl

      39.6 Bird Bos
      37.0 Sikma Sea
      33.4 Issel Den
      33.2 Adams Phe
      32.2 Ruland Was
      30.1 Jones Phl
      29.4 Laimbeer Det
      28.9 McHale Bos
      27.8 Vanderweghe Den
      27.2 Winters Mil
      27.1 Tripucka Det
      26.7 Paxson Por
      25.8 Chambers SD
      25.7 Grunfeld KC
      25.5 Benson Det
      25.5 Corzine SA
      25.4 Hawes Atl
      25.3 Olberding SA
      25.3 Macy Phe
      25.2 Owens Ind

      44.3 Bird Bos
      40.0 McHale Bos
      30.6 Laimbeer Det
      30.0 Chambers Sea
      29.9 Sikma Mil
      29.8 Vanderweghe Por
      29.0 Stockton Uta
      28.8 Gminski NJ
      27.2 Stipanovich Ind
      25.8 Ainge Bos
      25.4 Rasmussen Den
      25.2 Adams Phe

      37.8 Bird Bos
      37.6 Stockton Uta
      34.5 Price Cle
      31.3 Mullin GS
      31.3 Hornacek Phe
      29.6 McHale Bos
      29.2 Majerle Phe
      28.9 Chambers Phe
      26.0 Skiles Orl
      25.9 Brickowski Mil

      35.1 Stockton Uta
      34.7 Gugliotta Min
      33.4 Laettner Atl
      29.4 Hornacek Uta
      29.6 Bradley NJ-Dal
      27.3 Sura Cle
      27.3 Reeves Van
      26.8 Ostertag Uta
      26.7 Perdue SA
      26.3 Mullin GS

      33.3 Stockton Uta
      30.9 VanHorn NJ
      30.2 Miller Chi-Ind
      28.8 Barry Sea
      28.5 LaFrentz Den-Dal
      27.7 Szczerbiak Min
      25.4 Harpring Phl
      25.3 Sura GS
      25.2 Miller Orl
    • John Hollinger <alleyoop2@yahoo.com>
      ... watched ... Put me firmly in the pompous windbag camp. The best thing about the Mason comment, for instance, was that Rosen said the reason Mason can t
      Message 35 of 35 , Jan 11, 2003
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        > I particularly enjoyed Rosen's article on the Sonics where he
        > one game (one of the worst of the year, for what it's worth) and
        > acted like he knew something about the team. Apparently, Desmond
        > Mason can't make a jumper because he had one bad night.

        Put me firmly in the "pompous windbag" camp. The best thing about the
        Mason comment, for instance, was that Rosen said the reason Mason
        can't make a jumper was his "low release point", which was hilarious
        on several levels:

        1) Apparently he's never watched Steve Kerr. Or Andrew Toney. Or
        Bryce Drew. Or about a hundred other guys who shoot from under their
        chin but make everything.

        2) Mason's release point isn't low, especially given that he's about
        20 feet off the ground when he shoots it.

        3) Mason's problem isn't the release point, it's the lack of arc on
        his shot.
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