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Re: [APBR_analysis] Digest Number 66

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  • Robert Bradley
    And my take on the Suns side of the trade - 1. The Suns biggest problem this year was scoring points, and Kidd never has developed a dependable outside shot
    Message 1 of 3 , Jun 30, 2001
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      And my take on the Suns' side of the trade -

      1. The Suns' biggest problem this year was scoring points, and Kidd
      never has developed a dependable outside shot to keep the defenses
      honest. If they had had a healthy Penny Hardaway this might not have
      been as big an issue, but playing alogside Mario Elie in the backcourt
      they just didn't generate enough scoring. Granted, Kidd is a terrific
      player in many other areas, but for long periods he was counted on for
      scoring and he's just not a proficient scorer.

      2. The off-the-court issues may have bothered Jerry Colangelo as much
      as the on-the-court problems. JC considers personal behavior very
      important, and that's a big reason why Charles Barkley was eventually
      sent packing as well (same with Walter Davis, Oliver Miller, Richard
      Dumas, Clifford Robinson, etc.).

      3. Despite Kidd's high level of play, team success in the playoffs has
      been minimal since he arrived here. One trip to the second round, and
      that came in an upset of the Spurs where he appeared in only one game.
      This doesn't belittle his contributions, but it did give his detractors
      something to point to.

      4. Declining attendance and the Suns' style of play. JC pointed to
      the lack of enthusiasm over the team as a reason for the deal to
      jumpstart interest in the team. Kidd just didn't endear himself to the
      fans the way Barkley, Dan Majerle, Davis, Paul Westphal, Connie Hawkins
      or Kevin Johnson did. This might be a problem with the fan base (which
      has become more corporate over the years) and their understanding of
      the game, as well as increased competition elsewhere (the Cardinals,
      Coyotes, Mercury, Rattlers and Diamondbacks).

      What will it take for this club to be successful next year? Getting a
      contribution from Tom Gugliotta and Penny Hardaway would be a good
      start. Continued development from Shawn Marion, Jake Tsakalidis and
      Daniel Santiago is just as important. Rodney Rogers, John Wallace,
      Tony Delk and Vinnie Del Negro will have to contribute too. I think
      Stephon Marbury is a great addition, but they'll need to make another
      with their mid-level salary cap exception - either a guard or center
      who can make something of an impact.

      > My take on this from NJ's side is that
      >
      > 1. Coach Scott didn't exactly know how to build around Marbury,
      > having played around a PG like Kidd (Magic)
      >
      > 2. Kidd is a much better defensive player than Marbury
      >
      > 3. Kidd, despite his shooting flaws, is a better team leader than
      > Marbury.
      >
      > 4. NJ, with a bunch of saps and injuries on the team, really didn't
      > have much to lose to make all the deals they did.
      >
      > I can see why the Suns did the trade, too. If they can get Marbury
      > to
      > play D like Phoenix does, if they can continue to see growth out
      > of Marion, if Cliff Robinson has a career year, if Penny returns
      > to All-Star form, if Jake develops a game, they have a good high
      > variance team that has a shot at upsetting the Lakers. Frankly, I
      > think the general malaise in Phoenix over a suddenly defensive and
      > not
      > offensive team bugged the owners. That, plus general bad luck. I
      > wonder how long Skiles has there if they don't improve a lot.
      >
      > Wrt Chicago -- Y'know, after all those years of the Bulls beating up
      > on my teams, I really don't want to ease the pain for Bulls fans. ;)


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    • Ed Weiland
      I just wanted to weigh in on the Kidd-Marbury and Williams-Bibby deals. On Kidd-Marbury: I like it from NJ s side. I remember looking at the effect Kidd had on
      Message 2 of 3 , Jun 30, 2001
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        I just wanted to weigh in on the Kidd-Marbury and
        Williams-Bibby deals.

        On Kidd-Marbury:

        I like it from NJ's side. I remember looking at the
        effect Kidd had on his teammates when he came to the
        Suns and it seemed just about every player on Phoenix
        improved after Kidd arrived. Dallas seemed to be set
        back a bit after the deal and Phoenix improved quite a
        bit with Kidd as their leader.

        Marbury has not improved the Nets and the T-wolves
        don't seem to miss him. He didn't get along with
        teammates in Jersey and grumped his way out of
        Minnesota partly because of Garnett's contract. I
        don't doubt Stephon's raw talent for a second. I also
        concede that at 24 Marbury could certainly mature into
        as good a teammate and a leader as he is a player. But
        he might not.

        Kidd's off-court "incident" last year is certainly a
        bad thing, but he did handle the aftermath as well as
        a player could, or so it seemed that way to me.

        One more thing, and I don't know the answer. Are the
        Suns just looking to cut costs? The Cliff Robinson
        trade makes no sense to me and Colagelo has been
        having money trouble with the Diamondbacks. If this is
        the case, pity the Suns. I've always felt that the
        strongest thing this team had going for it was
        Colagelo's willingness to spend as much money as it
        took to contend.


        Williams-Bibby

        I don't know why any NBA team would want Jason
        Williams. He's everything I wouldn't want in a PG. He
        doesn't shoot particularly well. His passing is
        flashy, but inconsistent and his decision-making is
        terrible. His defense is non-existent. In King's game
        I saw, it seemed the team always improved when
        Williams was on the bench.

        Bibby should be a big upgrade. He's not a great
        player, but he's solid enough. He won't kill as many
        possessions at Williams did with bad decisions and the
        rest of the Kings should benefit from having a
        steadier floor general running things. For the Kings
        though, it all comes down to getting Webber's name on
        a contract.

        I guess the Grizz are in rebuilding mode and were
        planning on losing Bibby anyway. Perhaps they're
        hoping Williams figures it out and learns to use his
        talents better. If not, they let him walk after the
        season or try to deal him during the season.

        In short, a thumbs up to Jersey and Sacto. A thumbs
        down to Phoenix and a "we'll see" to Memphis.

        Ed Weiland

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      • Michael K. Tamada
        ... [...] ... To me, this is the only reason that makes a sort of sense. On the court, I d take Kidd over Marbury in a heartbeat. But Phoenix has seemed to
        Message 3 of 3 , Jul 2 2:07 PM
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          On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Robert Bradley wrote:

          >
          > And my take on the Suns' side of the trade -

          [...]

          > 2. The off-the-court issues may have bothered Jerry Colangelo as much
          > as the on-the-court problems. JC considers personal behavior very
          > important, and that's a big reason why Charles Barkley was eventually
          > sent packing as well (same with Walter Davis, Oliver Miller, Richard
          > Dumas, Clifford Robinson, etc.).

          To me, this is the only reason that makes a sort of sense. On the court,
          I'd take Kidd over Marbury in a heartbeat. But Phoenix has seemed to be
          highly sensitive to character issues, ever since that 1980s scandal where
          half the team was involved with drugs and about 11/12 of them were traded
          or waived within a year or two (my hazy recollection is that Hornacek was
          the only survivor, and this was before he became a good NBA player).

          I'm not saying it's a good move for Phoenix, I don't think it is, but the
          other reasons for trading Kidd for Marbury do not make sense to me.

          [...]

          > What will it take for this club to be successful next year? Getting a
          > contribution from Tom Gugliotta and Penny Hardaway would be a good

          Yes, as far as on-the-court action goes, those are the keys to
          improvement for the Suns, not Kidd nor Marbury.


          --MKT
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