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Re: Euclidian comparison of current and past players

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  • mikel_ind
    ... What little I saw of Moncrief had him scoring around the basket and midrange. Majerle was the thunderdunker, then he had the 30-footer, but apparently
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 3 6:57 AM
      --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "Michael K. Tamada" <tamada@o...> wrote:
      > Actually I think of Majerle and Moncrief as being fairly similar,

      What little I saw of Moncrief had him scoring around the basket and
      midrange. Majerle was the thunderdunker, then he had the 30-footer,
      but apparently nothing midrange. Perhaps the ultimate case of a guy
      with unlimited range (in and out) who only gets 10-12 points in 36
      min.

      >... The matching
      > of Divac and DeBusschere though tells us that there's some seriously
      > missing variables. Guys who could rebound and score some and pass
      some,
      > and who could shoot from outside, but I don't know if I'd draw any
      > similarities beyond that.

      DeBusschere invented the DeBu Flop. Modelled it after Fosbury.

      (Rebound, score, pass, shoot from outside ... what more do you want?)


      >
      > > Mickey Johnson ...
      >
      > Yes, he was the first forward I remember seeing who would sometimes
      bring
      > the ball out of backcourt -- this at 6'10". And not just in fast
      break
      > situations or fullcourt pressure situations, but as part of the
      regular
      > offense. ... John Johnson must've started doing it
      around
      > the same time as Mickey Johnson, but he was 6'6" or 6'7", not as
      unusual.

      These guys had similarities for sure. JJ preceded Mickey J by 4
      years. Both guys played 12 seasons, shot fairly low percentages, had
      high turnovers, and got traded a lot ('til JJ settled down in
      Seattle). But they did it all -- or at least tried to.

      Mickey Johnson played in only 19 playoff games, but he made the best
      of it. He averaged 19.2 pts, 9.2 reb, per-36; his assists and
      turnovers were lower in these games, shooting pct higher (.548,
      vs .507 RS).

      He is another guy with big per-minute numbers who played mysteriously
      few minutes (28 pg) for his career.


      Mike G
    • HoopStudies
      ... footer, ... guy ... Moncrief was quicker and smaller, an outstanding defender. Majerle was bigger, still pretty quick, but also strong enough to avoid
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 3 11:34 AM
        --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "mikel_ind" <msg_53@h...> wrote:
        > --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "Michael K. Tamada" <tamada@o...> wrote:
        > > Actually I think of Majerle and Moncrief as being fairly similar,
        >
        > What little I saw of Moncrief had him scoring around the basket and
        > midrange. Majerle was the thunderdunker, then he had the 30-
        footer,
        > but apparently nothing midrange. Perhaps the ultimate case of a
        guy
        > with unlimited range (in and out) who only gets 10-12 points in 36
        > min.

        Moncrief was quicker and smaller, an outstanding defender. Majerle
        was bigger, still pretty quick, but also strong enough to avoid using
        his quickness. He played D well when he wanted to and wasn't hurt.
        Moncrief was the perceived star of his teams. Majerle was not.
        Moncrief was a better player, without a doubt.

        DeanO
      • Michael K. Tamada
        On Sat, 3 Aug 2002, HoopStudies wrote: [...] ... No question that Moncrief was better, although wasn t Marques Johnson still around when Moncrief joined the
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 4 5:10 PM
          On Sat, 3 Aug 2002, HoopStudies wrote:

          [...]

          > Moncrief was the perceived star of his teams. Majerle was not.
          > Moncrief was a better player, without a doubt.

          No question that Moncrief was better, although wasn't Marques Johnson
          still around when Moncrief joined the Bucks? MJ had been the star
          previously and I think of those Bucks teams as having two perceived stars,
          Marques and Moncrief.

          I think Marques joined the league the same year as Bernard King and Walter
          Davis, an incredible trio of SFs coming into the league at once. Injuries
          shortened his career, but he possessed a wider range of all-around skills
          than the other two, and might have been the best of them overall,
          quality-wise if not longevity-wise. Yet another negative contribution of
          Benoit Benajamin to the NBA: his (inadvertent) collision with Marques
          Johnson broke Johnson's neck and finished his NBA career.


          --MKT
        • alleyoop2
          He is another guy with big per-minute numbers who played mysteriously few minutes (28 pg) for his career. If I m not mistaken, Mickey played so few minutes
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 6 5:16 AM
            "He is another guy with big per-minute numbers who played
            mysteriously few minutes (28 pg) for his career."

            If I'm not mistaken, Mickey played so few minutes because he was a
            major pain in the ass and didn't play any defense.


            --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "mikel_ind" <msg_53@h...> wrote:
            > --- In APBR_analysis@y..., "Michael K. Tamada" <tamada@o...> wrote:
            > > Actually I think of Majerle and Moncrief as being fairly similar,
            >
            > What little I saw of Moncrief had him scoring around the basket and
            > midrange. Majerle was the thunderdunker, then he had the 30-
            footer,
            > but apparently nothing midrange. Perhaps the ultimate case of a
            guy
            > with unlimited range (in and out) who only gets 10-12 points in 36
            > min.
            >
            > >... The matching
            > > of Divac and DeBusschere though tells us that there's some
            seriously
            > > missing variables. Guys who could rebound and score some and
            pass
            > some,
            > > and who could shoot from outside, but I don't know if I'd draw any
            > > similarities beyond that.
            >
            > DeBusschere invented the DeBu Flop. Modelled it after Fosbury.
            >
            > (Rebound, score, pass, shoot from outside ... what more do you
            want?)
            >
            >
            > >
            > > > Mickey Johnson ...
            > >
            > > Yes, he was the first forward I remember seeing who would
            sometimes
            > bring
            > > the ball out of backcourt -- this at 6'10". And not just in fast
            > break
            > > situations or fullcourt pressure situations, but as part of the
            > regular
            > > offense. ... John Johnson must've started doing it
            > around
            > > the same time as Mickey Johnson, but he was 6'6" or 6'7", not as
            > unusual.
            >
            > These guys had similarities for sure. JJ preceded Mickey J by 4
            > years. Both guys played 12 seasons, shot fairly low percentages,
            had
            > high turnovers, and got traded a lot ('til JJ settled down in
            > Seattle). But they did it all -- or at least tried to.
            >
            > Mickey Johnson played in only 19 playoff games, but he made the
            best
            > of it. He averaged 19.2 pts, 9.2 reb, per-36; his assists and
            > turnovers were lower in these games, shooting pct higher (.548,
            > vs .507 RS).
            >
            > He is another guy with big per-minute numbers who played
            mysteriously
            > few minutes (28 pg) for his career.
            >
            >
            > Mike G
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