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Re: Walter Berry and other head cases

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  • HoopStudies
    ... the ... Berry, ... the Year ... a ... be ... they ... difficulties. ... he has ... player or ... Rider is ... league in ... crappy ... Spangled ... and ...
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 18, 2002
      --- In APBR_analysis@y..., john wallace craven <john1974@u...> wrote:
      > > I was thinking about good players who basically got booted from
      the
      > > league for attitude. The first guy I always think of is Walter
      Berry,
      > > the former St. Johns player who might have even been Player of
      the Year
      > > by some counts in college. In the NBA, I always had him as being
      a
      > > pretty effective offensive player. Defensively, he left a lot to
      be
      > > desired and I remember reading coaches say that was the reason
      they
      > > didn't want him, though it was at least as much attitude
      difficulties.
      >
      > Hmmm... Jason Kidd hasn't been exactly booted from the league, but
      he has
      > switched teams twice because of an inability to get along with a
      player or
      > the owner. The same goes, more or less, for Stephon Marbury. J.R.
      Rider is
      > probably the best example of a guy who got hounded out of the
      league in
      > part because his attitude sucked. Mahmoud-Abdul Rauf didn't have a
      crappy
      > attitude, I don't think, but his refusal to stand for the Star-
      Spangled
      > Banner in Denver was crucial in getting him kicked out of the NBA
      and
      > never being able to recapture a starting role again. Kendall Gill
      has
      > moved around because of attitude problems, IIRC (I know he was
      moved from
      > the Sonics because he couldn't get along with George Karl, but I'm
      not
      > sure if attitude was a factor before or since).
      >
      > >
      > > Oliver Miller was essentially excluded from the NBA for weight
      issues.
      > > He didn't play poorly at first, but he did go downhill.
      >
      > Well, if weight is part of "attitude", then include Hot Rod
      Williams and
      > Bison Dele too. Actually, Dele would probably make it even if you
      didn't
      > factor in weight.

      Not Hot Rod Williams, but the other John Williams, John S. Williams.
      Aka Hot Fudge Williams. He lasted a long time before getting booted
      actually. I was surprised.

      I didn't remember Bison Dele having weight problems. I know he was
      weird.

      DeanO
    • bchaikin@aol.com
      hot fudge williams?....love it....hadn t heard that one....
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 18, 2002


        hot fudge williams?....love it....hadn't heard that one....
      • bchaikin@aol.com
        vernon maxwell played for 8 different teams in 13 seasons, and was a starter for 6-8 of those years, so he doesn t qualify for the
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 18, 2002

          vernon maxwell played for 8 different teams in 13 seasons, and was a starter for 6-8 of those years, so he doesn't qualify for the booted-out-of-the-league-for-attitude group. but he was surely moved around from team-to-team because of his seemingly constant angry attitude towards playing, not for any lack of talent. best seasons were around 17 pts/g and 5 ast/g and some good "D".....
        • bchaikin@aol.com
          also if i remember didn t oliver miller turn down a huge-something-like 3 year $9 million contract ($3 mil/season) from toronto to play out his option with i
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 18, 2002

            also if i remember didn't oliver miller turn down a huge-something-like 3 year $9 million contract ($3 mil/season) from toronto to play out his option with i think phoenix? after that you heard little if anything about him...kinda drummed himself out of the league...
          • alleyoop2
            Are we talking about players who had bad attitudes or players who had weight problems? Oliver Miller, Dinner Bell Mel Turpin, Ike Austin and John Hot Plate
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 19, 2002
              Are we talking about players who had bad attitudes or players who had
              weight problems? Oliver Miller, Dinner Bell Mel Turpin, Ike Austin
              and John Hot Plate Williams would all be examples of weight issues.

              As far as attitude, I can't believe nobody mentioned Derrick Coleman
              yet. A few other examples would be John Brisker, Marvin Barnes and
              Warren Jabali, Benoit Benjamin, Joe Barry Carroll (aka Joe Barely
              Cares), Cedric "vacation" Ceballos, Chris Morris, Rony Seikaly,
              Robert Horry (in Phoenix), Latrell Sprewell (in Golden St.) and Olden
              Polynice. Somebody asked about Jim Jackson before; he's bitched about
              minutes everywhere he's played, so he's definitey in too. Most of
              these guys are big men; I guess coaches are willing to put up with
              more because size is so scarce.





              --- In APBR_analysis@y..., bchaikin@a... wrote:
              >
              >
              > hot fudge williams?....love it....hadn't heard that one....
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