Re: Walter Berry and other head cases
- --- In APBR_analysis@y..., john wallace craven <john1974@u...> wrote:
> > I was thinking about good players who basically got booted fromthe
> > league for attitude. The first guy I always think of is WalterBerry,
> > the former St. Johns player who might have even been Player ofthe Year
> > by some counts in college. In the NBA, I always had him as beinga
> > pretty effective offensive player. Defensively, he left a lot tobe
> > desired and I remember reading coaches say that was the reasonthey
> > didn't want him, though it was at least as much attitudedifficulties.
> Hmmm... Jason Kidd hasn't been exactly booted from the league, but
> switched teams twice because of an inability to get along with aplayer or
> the owner. The same goes, more or less, for Stephon Marbury. J.R.Rider is
> probably the best example of a guy who got hounded out of theleague in
> part because his attitude sucked. Mahmoud-Abdul Rauf didn't have acrappy
> attitude, I don't think, but his refusal to stand for the Star-Spangled
> Banner in Denver was crucial in getting him kicked out of the NBAand
> never being able to recapture a starting role again. Kendall Gillhas
> moved around because of attitude problems, IIRC (I know he wasmoved from
> the Sonics because he couldn't get along with George Karl, but I'mnot
> sure if attitude was a factor before or since).issues.
> > Oliver Miller was essentially excluded from the NBA for weight
> > He didn't play poorly at first, but he did go downhill.Williams and
> Well, if weight is part of "attitude", then include Hot Rod
> Bison Dele too. Actually, Dele would probably make it even if youdidn't
> factor in weight.Not Hot Rod Williams, but the other John Williams, John S. Williams.
Aka Hot Fudge Williams. He lasted a long time before getting booted
actually. I was surprised.
I didn't remember Bison Dele having weight problems. I know he was
vernon maxwell played for 8 different teams in 13 seasons, and was a starter for 6-8 of those years, so he doesn't qualify for the booted-out-of-the-league-for-attitude group. but he was surely moved around from team-to-team because of his seemingly constant angry attitude towards playing, not for any lack of talent. best seasons were around 17 pts/g and 5 ast/g and some good "D".....
also if i remember didn't oliver miller turn down a huge-something-like 3 year $9 million contract ($3 mil/season) from toronto to play out his option with i think phoenix? after that you heard little if anything about him...kinda drummed himself out of the league...
- Are we talking about players who had bad attitudes or players who had
weight problems? Oliver Miller, Dinner Bell Mel Turpin, Ike Austin
and John Hot Plate Williams would all be examples of weight issues.
As far as attitude, I can't believe nobody mentioned Derrick Coleman
yet. A few other examples would be John Brisker, Marvin Barnes and
Warren Jabali, Benoit Benjamin, Joe Barry Carroll (aka Joe Barely
Cares), Cedric "vacation" Ceballos, Chris Morris, Rony Seikaly,
Robert Horry (in Phoenix), Latrell Sprewell (in Golden St.) and Olden
Polynice. Somebody asked about Jim Jackson before; he's bitched about
minutes everywhere he's played, so he's definitey in too. Most of
these guys are big men; I guess coaches are willing to put up with
more because size is so scarce.
--- In APBR_analysis@y..., bchaikin@a... wrote:
> hot fudge williams?....love it....hadn't heard that one....